As a junior, my daughter thinks she may be interested in medical research as a career. She’s been interested in areas such as stem cell, cancer, Parkinson’s, and Alzheimer’s research. We started our initial search thinking BME would be a good program to pursue. Lots of good info on this degree on CC. Now we are trying to look at other programs which may be almost as good, or better, than BME with the goal of eventually getting into medical research (focus: brain?)
We are only looking at UG right now, understanding that advanced degrees will be necessary. I’ve seen programs in Biomedical Sciences, Neuroscience, Molecular Biology, Chem Eng?, etc. just not sure what I’m missing, or what would be other route to take. Looking for ideas, and schools if you have a suggestion.
Not many stats to share, but I can tell you GPA is 4.0 UW, 4 APs, 1500ish on new SAT practice, 34 on practice ACT. Want to keep costs low, assume no FA, in case that matters.
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medical research as a career. She’s been interested in areas such as stem cell, cancer, Parkinson’s, and Alzheimer’s research. We started our initial search thinking BME would be a good program to pursue
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Does she want to pursue a MD/PhD? or just a PhD?
The undergrad degree is far less important as long as it includes the hard sciences…the major could be: Bio, chem, biochem, mechE, ChemE, BioE, BiomedE, etc.
My S2’s degree was in ChemE and he could have gone into several different directions with that. It’s a very marketable degree.
The grad schools will accept a variety of STEM majors into their research grad programs.
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Want to keep costs low, assume no FA, in case that matters
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What do you want your net costs to be? $10K? $15k? more? less? With those stats, her net costs could be quite low at some places. Is she a likely NMF? Did she take the PSAT?
She’s more a PhD kid because, as she says, she ‘doesn’t like people’? She’s kidding, of course, but I think she is not a fan of the clinical side.
I like the idea of some sort of Engin program, but it would be nice if it could have some exposure to bio/neuro topics. Not sure if this is possible in a ChemE program (is there a BioChem E?) (which would be nice, since UA doesn’t have BioEng ) Non-Engin majors, to me, kind of lock her into having to go to grad school. That’s the currently ‘plan’ (if you can plan a 16-year old’s future), but things can change.
We would like to keep net cost around 20-25K. She takes the PSAT this week, no idea about possible NMS due to the use of the new format. Probably a real crap shoot, but she will most likely be close. I’m not going to rely on that. She also takes the ACT this month, and SAT in January (I think). So, really, all I can do right now is try to get educated on what’s out there.
D has been interested in epidemiology for a couple of years now, similar to your D (less interested in clinical side). At this point her interest seems to point to a public health grad program, though she is currently following a pre-med track because there is so much overlap and she’d like to keep that (MD/PhD) option open. She won’t declare a major until next year but for the moment is thinking Chem, Bio, Biochem or Neuro.
She’s applied to the alumni mentoring program at her school for this reason. She requested a specific epidemiologist doing more or less what she’d like to do. Less formal conversations would also be useful, if anyone you know has contacts or she’s comfortable cold-emailing.
There are so many different science fields that do medical research. She has plenty of time to figure which fields most interest her once she is in college. She will need to decide which type of science most interests her and choose her college major based on that. For example, she could lean towards physics, genetics, biology, chemistry, engineering…
At this stage she needs to be thinking about which college will best serve her interests. Depending on your state your state flagship could be the ideal university. The U of Wisconsin in Madison is a research campus with excellent opportunities- it could be her undergrad or grad school of choice. This brings up something else. She should not think that she will do her undergrad and grad schools at the same institution- in fact, some programs may choose to not take their undergrads.
Her ideas will evolve as she continues to mature. For now she needs to be looking at schools that will give her good sciences/engineering at the undergrad level. This should include exposure to grad level research. Once she is at her undergrad school she will continue to refine her research wishes, or take off in an entirely different direction. College advisors will be helpful to her.
I understand the people issue- I chose medical school over grad school eons ago partly because I wanted to work with people instead of in the lab. Engineering is very different than basic science research. I was a chemistry major but no way was I interested in the engineering aspect of that. I tended towards the biological aspects of chemistry, before the huge interdisciplinary shift at UW that would have suited my interests. I have a college friend who did the PhD route (bioorganic, worked in the pharmaceutical industry)- some decades later we talked and wondered if we should have gone the other’s route.
Many top U’s will offer opportunities for exposure to research in fields of interest. This may be only a very minor role but will show her what research is actually like. My undergrad Honors senior thesis work for Chemistry was done in a Pharmacology lab and I had various exposures to various chemistry grad labs. Life at UW is so different now as so many fields of study did not exist in my day, plus now there are so many more women in science for mentoring (and medicine- but that’s an entirely different topic comparing my days as a woman in medicine from school to practice to now).
Short answer- concentrate on schools that will provide majors that interest her and have research going on that she could potentially get experiences in. Wait for grad school to define the more narrow interests.
The underlying skill for any of these research careers is math (based on where big data and bio-statistics is moving medical research).
I’d worry less about the field (bio is fine, chem is fine, etc.) and more about the skills. A kid with solid math preparation can spend four years in college refining the mix; a kid with math deficiencies is going to have to catch up.
I think I’m hearing this is key. We will look for schools that really push their access to research for undergrads, I think. Not worrying too much about the specific major for now, but hopefully with access to many to choose from. It’s the ‘brain’ now, but who knows I guess.
Our flagship is UIUC, but I’m sure we will find other less expensive options that are as good. I’m not in love with the school, and IL is in a world of hurt.
@OHMomof2 I like the idea of the alumni mentoring program. I’ll have to look for that wherever she ends up. She volunteered/interned at our children’s hospital in Chicago this past summer in the Genetics department and learned a lot. She learned she doesn’t want to be a genetic counselor
@blossom I think you’re right. She’s in BC Calc right now, doing fine. Math and English are probably her strongest points, which I think is weird. I’m interested in BioInformatics, and seeing if this is a real ‘thing’ or not. It makes sense to me…turning data into information. You can apply this anywhere.
Oncology is being transformed by math. There is no such thing as cancer. There are many diseases which are called “cancer” and they are different from each other, and progress differently in people based on many variables.
Math is the key. Do you want a doctor recommending radiation for your mom based on clinical experience with several thousand patients, or a protocol based on meta- data based on millions of patient outcomes, tailored to your mom’s own physical and genetic predisposition?
^ I’m gonna say the latter? Iowa State looks like they’ve got a cool program through Biology dept. It usually seems to be a specialization within the BioEng or BioMedEng program.
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I like the idea of some sort of Engin program, but it would be nice if it could have some exposure to bio/neuro topics. Not sure if this is possible in a ChemE program (is there a BioChem E?) (which would be nice, since UA doesn’t have BioEng )
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UA has Chemical&Biological Engineering, but it’s called ChemE for short. Certainly any student can take add’l bio/neuro classes…My son also took Genetics, Tissue Engineering, Cell Bio, Intro to Biomedical Eng’g, etc.
Ah. I have not gotten into the program details. I better not assume. That’s what makes it hard, schools do it differently; call things differently. BioMed can be separate, part of MechE, part of CompE, part of ChemE. Thanks for the links @mom2collegekids, that’s great to hear. I’ll update my spreadsheet!
DH does cancer research at a med school - PhD not MD - works in a lab not with patients. He seems to spend oodles of time staring at these giant spreadsheets of data. He majored in Biology and Physics as an undergrad (and had the coursework for a chemistry major as well) and Biophysics for his PhD. I don’t think there’s any need to do BME, though I understand that it’s considered pretty sexy currently. Nephew with similar interests majored in biochemistry and cell biology and a BSB in bioengineering. He considered going the MD/PhD route, but is doing the straight PhD in the end.
BTW I always laugh at people who think science is a good way to avoid people. Running a lab, going to conferences, all the faculty meetings, journal clubs. All papers are collaborations, often between labs. You just aren’t working with patients.
My kid’s summer intern mentor bemoaned that he should have been a MD instead of a Ph D.
At my spouse’s company, the compensation difference between a Ph D and a MD researcher is rather alarming.
I was surprised to find out how little researchers were paid considered that they have Ph D’s and years of post-doc under their belts - apparently that kind of compensation scheme is the norm in the life science field.
Of course, this is strictly from financial stand-point.
@mathmom Yes, she is actually a pretty good communicator, but that statement (“I don’t like people”) was just something we’ve always fondly remembered her saying. Let’s just say she’s a little awkward at times.
And, she’s definitely not set on BME (I don’t think). That limits our possibilities somewhat, so I’d like her to keep an open mind…but I’m not the boss of her. She realizes undergrad is just a beginning, and I’d like her to enjoy it, which might be a little tougher in Engin school.
So, to do MD research, is it all the same med school grind? I’ve never really thought of that option.
To be a MD, I think you do need to go through the same med school grind even at the end of the day you wish to do research instead of fixing patients.
(but that mentor mentioned that doing his Ph D at Caltech and then post doc at Stanford was no walk in the park either - hence he wished that he had gone the other route)
The work hour of a researcher is very normal compared to a doctor who sees patients - it is sort of best of both worlds - low stress but high compensation.
On the other hand, at my spouse’s company, the number of researchers with Ph D vastly outnumbers researchers with MD. I suspect this is purely because a MD is vastly more expensive than a Ph D but there may be other factors that I am not aware.
I’m not an expert, and the expert just walked out the door, but I believe one of the main attractions of MD/PhD programs is that they pay for med school. It’s a longer route. Also at DH’s school the MD’s doing basic research tend to get paid somewhat better salaries than the PhD’s. DH didn’t go into this intending to do medical related research - he was interested in cell motility and the grant money was in cancer - so that’s where he ended up. The really alarming thing in academia is that you are expected to get half your salary from grants so it’s actually a disadvantage to make your salary too high.
My son is majoring in computer science then attending medical school. But there is a major called Bioinformatics that might appeal to her. It combines biology, chemistry and computer science and they work at MD Anderson here assisting the physicians in collating data. My son is not hugely outgoing either and wants to do research.
Talking about Bioinformatics…
My spouse came home last night looking defeated.
Apparently, she spent good part of the day refereeing between the heads of the IT and Bioinformatics at her company. She could not take it anymore - she wants to retire. I was begging her not to retire until our kids are safely out of colleges. :o)
She’s kidding, of course, but I think she is not a fan of the clinical side.