<p>"There's no point in taking math past algebra."</p>
<p>you can actually put a lot of substitute math with a lot of things and that will stilll work out. I mean, to me, i dont get the point of learning literature, hey, why do i need to know how to analyse a poem whatsoever?</p>
<p>Is that statistically proven? :P</p>
<p>well i don't know i mean i've tried to think of what analyzing a poem will do for myself in life and i find that it's pretty much useless. then again i favor math over other subjects. it's much more precise, clear, and to the point. best of all there's still room to infer based on your findings just like there's room to infer things in readings in lit class.</p>
<p>Most of the analytical and problem-solving skills that math is supposed to teach you (that will somehow help you in other fields) can be honed much more effectively by taking a logic class from a philosophy department.</p>
<p>I've taken up to Differential Equations and an Intro Symbolic Logic class (sentential and predicate) and unless the student takes more advanced logic classes, he should stick to math. It's much more applicable in the "real world", and students already have more depth in that area. </p>
<p>Most logic classes for the masses just teach a set of rules that you apply with very little lateral thinking, unless you're doing derivations or proofs. If a student wanted to hone his analytical skills, I'd suggest he should take at least to the level of mathematical logic, but that's a junior/senior level course.</p>
<p>It would be better if they taught intro logic at the high school level, and if mathematical/modal logic courses were intro college classes. There's a lot to be gained that the education doesn't provide.</p>
<p>Cherry, I don't know what sort of "real world" you're living in. The one I'm living in, anything beyond algebra II and geometry is a bit of a waste. And intro logic (not a watered-down "Critical Thinking" class) would be plenty. I taught intro logic in colleges for a decade, and the improvement in the students' reasoning capabilities from the start of the class to the end of the class was usually amazing. I can't think of any other single course that could improve their ability to reason as much, and I can't believe it isn't required at every college.</p>
<p>An intro statistics course is VERY helpful too.</p>
<p>Gee, I'm glad to see the tradition of the liberal arts is alive and well in today's youth.</p>
<p>Also, in what way is attending school not the "real world?" Why is "real world" always more-or-less synonymous with "business world?" I can't speak for you all, but I've lived in the real world every second of my life.</p>
<p>the problem with the current american 'real world' is that its okay, in some cases cool, to be mathematically illiterate. but when someone cant read, well, then its a major social problem. an interesting contrast.</p>
<p>regardless of the cause of this phenomenon, it has forced mathematics as a whole to be pushed as far out of the social picture as possible. people dont want to think about it and thanks to computers they dont. fortunately for those of us who are good at mathematics, it also means we will be well compensated for our work; we do the vital math for everyone. </p>
<p>i guess the vital question in all of this is what it would mean for society if we were indeed a mathematically literate populous. what possibilities would that create for the world of computing, the exchange of information, our everyday lives? if the answer is none, then perhaps we there is little point to most people taking math. for some reason, however, i doubt thats the case.</p>
<p>Eh, I don't think math is very important (to the majority of people) but I do think the reasoning skills that makes one good at math are very important (to the majority of people).</p>
<p>humanities majors need math to figure out the total when they are working in fast food...</p>
<p>I think that basic statistics should be required of every college and high school graduate. The knowledge learned can help one's critical thinking. Every day, we are bombarded with news, radio announcers, magazines, news papers and politicians spweing statistics at us. Most who use them have an agenda and can pick, chose and package the numbers to support their view. Having a knowledge of basic statistics and a good critical thinking mind can allow someone to analyze the arguments and look for valid weaknesses, thus recognize manipulation.</p>
math in the United States is nothing more than a contest with other countries who excel at math. Nearly all math is worthless considering the advancements in technology. You don’t need to understand polynomials if you have plans to be an attorney. You only need that information if you have plans on being a scientist and even then technology allows us to garnish answers without having to learn dumb information in the process. Do you stand around and learn how a car works fully before you use it? No. Because you don’t need to know that information unless you are a mechanic or someone who is interested in knowing that information. If it breaks down you aren’t going to take some auto mechanic classes - you’ll either send it to a repair shop where THEY SPECIALIZE in that area, or you will learn about cars and make the repairs yourself. You show me typical occupations, professions or trades that use math on a regular basis to the extent of what is taught in college and I’ll show you a rainbow of diamonds. Math is fraudulently taught in college in response to advancements in other countries. It’s a way of attempting to get more people interested in math so they can be scientists. I don’t want to be a scientist and I don’t want to learn about stuff that has absolutely no bearing on my life or what I do in life. As long as I can add, subtract, multiply and divide, I should be fine. After all, for the past 47 years I’ve been doing well without knowing any of this worthless information. Do attorneys graph? Do their supervisors ask them to find the slope on some graph? No. It doesn’t happen. It won’t happen. Math is a specialty subject and that’s it.
There is so much misunderstanding here.
“You only need math if you have plans on being a scientist!”
False. 100% false. People in business, accounting, sociology, anthropology, psychology, economics, philosophy, art, and countless other fields all make regular utilization of math.
It’s true that a lot of technology exists that can simplify math. That’s not the point. One can plug integrals into graphing calculators all day long, but without understanding the meaning of the integral in physical terms, what’s the point?
No, one does not need to know everything about a car prior to driving it. However, if one knows how to change the tires, change the oil, change headlight bulbs, and maybe even change an alternator or starter…one is going to be in a much better position to save money, and potentially save time. If you never learned how to change a tire, then you’re stuck on the side of the road when you get a flat. There’s a lot of merit in having basic skill sets in a wide range of different fields. It prevents one from being helpless and completely reliant on others for everything.
Math is not a “specialty subject” simply because you don’t like it. Mathematics is probably the single most important invention/discovery in human history. Without it, hardly ANY of the things that we take for granted in our daily lives would be possible.
In either case, the math requirements at colleges are not going to go anywhere. Nor should they. College is about being educated. I’m a math/physics double major, and learning a foreign language is completely irrelevant to my field. However, I can see the value in learning how to think and understand the world in different ways. Was my intro to the humanities class relevant to my major? Not at all, but I got a lot out of the class.
Point is - non-math/science majors often have to take a SINGLE math class in college. Math/science majors have to take a couple semesters of humanities, a couple semesters of social sciences, English Composition, communication, etc. The “irrelevant” GenEd courses for a math major typically significantly outnumber the “irrelevant” courses for many other majors. Your complaints are invalid.
I think one can gain a lot of reasoning skills in an upper level math course* in college that they wouldn’t necessarily retain in a humanities or social science course (with the exception of perhaps philosophy) – even though attorneys don’t graph parabolas per se, Calculus is fundamentally taking complex things and boiling them down to simpler entities using structured reasoning and I think attorneys do a lot of that.
*I haven’t taken an upper level math course but what I’ve read is that most math courses north of Calculus are less about computing and more about conceptualizing nuanced abstractions and applying them.
Mathematics is the language in which God has written the universe.
Galileo Galilei Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)
How does one put together a household budget without a basic understanding of algebra or understand the actual terms of a loan without having at least a basic understanding of exponential growth? It’s often the case that one could save substantial amounts of money by switching to different phone companies or cable companies, or by consolidating credit card balances onto one card…and yet actually figuring this out requires math. If one is at the store and has $30, then sees a $40 pair of shoes at 25% off, do you have enough to buy them? Or do you have to bring them to the register to find out? What if one works at a job that involves a cash register and the cash register quits working? Do you close down until it’s fixed, or do you make do without it?
Having a basic mathematical education is a part of being an educated person. It’s no secret that a lot of people struggle with math and dislike it. I work as a math tutor in my campus tutoring center, and I see it nearly everyday. However, people often get locked into this mentality that math is pointless and that they don’t need it. This becomes a block that makes them defiant to learning it in the first place, which causes them to do poorly in it and resent the subject. One can resist it as much as one would like, but if one wants a college degree, one must pass at least a basic college level math course.
Knowing how a car works can also help you avert an accident. Knowing how my brakes work, for example, helps me avoid an accident when my tires lock in the snow. And actually, high school physics helps with that too - I understand how turning and friction work and so even though I have limited knowledge of the mechanics of my car, knowing basic physics helps me make good decisions for driving in bad conditions.
I’m a psychologist and I use math in my work every day.
You probably use math every day, too, without even realizing it. Math can help you hang straight pictures in your home, figure out a budget, decide how and when to invest, figure out how much you need for retirement. Math can help you analyze data - even simple data, like deciding whether to get an invasive medical procedure (by understanding the results of studies) or your child’s risk of falling off a particular type of playground equipment or getting kidnapped. Understanding statistics can reduce fear by realizing that serious events like that don’t happen that often. Besides, math is a way of thinking - it helps with logical, rational thought.
It goes the other way with humanities and social science classes, too. Scientists and physicians can benefit from the social sciences by understanding that just because they know the science doesn’t mean other people will trust the science unless they explain it in a way that’s acceptable to them. For example, there’s a newish drug that people at risk for HIV can take on a semi-regular basis to prevent them from getting HIV. As a social scientist, one of my research areas is figuring out whether people will actually take the drug, and what kinds of things in their every day lives interferes with taking it. Communication through writing is also really important for people of all fields.
The problem here is that just as many people will say the same things about the World History class that they had to take. This class is completely irrelevant to my major. However, when I took Western Civilization a couple semesters ago, I loved it. I enjoyed learning more about history. Part of being educated in an American university is receiving a broad education in a range of fields. Many other countries don’t have the broad general education core that American colleges have, but they basically all have some kind of math or quantitative analysis requirement regardless of the field of study. This is because being mathematically competent is important regardless of the field. Being skilled mathematically is a very positive factor in just about any employment application or job position.
I bet this history professor uses math on a pretty regular basis. This is how grades get calculated. Hopefully the professor has enough basic mathematical competence to calculate them correctly. It’s astonishing how many college students don’t even know how to set up an algebraic expression to calculate their own grades. And some of them want to be the professors that will one day be calculating grades for their own students.
Anyone that does research involving outside funding needs to know some basic mathematics, regardless of the field. When grants are issued, the people issuing them want some type of mathematical analysis of how those funds are being used. Statistics and average operational costs and such are typically needed. Distributions of funds to different areas requires comparing the needs of different areas of a project, and the net gains that would come from different distributions.
I could talk for days about why it’s important to be well educated in mathematics…but I’m also one of those crazy people that actually likes math, so I guess I’m biased…lol
Alongside what others are saying, I think the point of taking a Gen Ed math class is to expose you to a subject you may become interested in, but wouldn’t have initially taken unless you were required to do so. I think that in most cases, one doesn’t decide they want to be a chemical engineer or microbiologist until they have some form of exposure to the field.
Because 9 out of 7 people have trouble with math. Do you want to be part of that group?