What about exclusionary college campuses?
You mean colleges that refused to admit black people (like some frats and sororities did until fairly recently, when they sort of desegregated?) Not a fan.
Or Yaleâs (and other Iviesâ) policies to keep out Jewish students (also a common practice in frats and sororities not so long ago?) Didnât like those either.
2 Likes
Most social groups actually approximate that, especially in college. It may not be formalized like pledging, but trust and social intimacy is typically earned over time, not granted, and they are all exclusionary.
There is also an irony with the vitriol against fraternities. Fraternities exist at colleges, who select their students through a contrived and often ridiculous admissions process, with gross favoritism to privilege and wealth at the âeliteâ colleges. Yet that process is considered perfectly acceptable, but a group of students using their own criteria for deciding who they want to be friends with is considered unacceptable.
2 Likes
And yet no one if trying to close Yale.
Yale cleaned up its act, more or less. Some fraternities? Not so much.
My freshman roommate was in a top sorority at UT Austin. What a time suck. I was happy not to be in one. I had a great group of friends in my major. Colllege was awesome. 
4 Likes
I think thatâs an excellent question, and @momocarly gave an excellent answer. Iâd suggest that you also extend that as far as possible to all housing - after all, the student has to live somewhere. For example, one dorm I know of at a US university, had a six-year graduation rate below the universityâs four-year rate, and 15+% below the universityâs six-year average. That might be worth knowing.
But I would say that - by far - the most important thing is to impart your offspring with good character and being a good judge of character. Afraid of them âgetting in with a bad crowdâ? There are plenty of opportunities to do this apart from oneâs college living group. Give them the tools to handle this.
Yes, I know that âcharacterâ sounds old-fashioned. That doesnât make it less important.
2 Likes
Reading the schoolsâ newspapers can also be helpful in finding out reputations of houses. I live near a university and even I know the two frats here that should be avoided (they are unfortunately in the news all the time, are currently suspended, and will most likely be finally shutdown).
2 Likes
Iâd hardly say that exclusionary practices in college admissions process have been âperfectly acceptable,â especially if we take a historical perspective. And even now, the acceptability of just about every aspect of college admissions process (affirmative action, diversity, tests required, test blind, TO, legacies, geographic preferences, donor preferences, special treatment for athletes, etc.) is considered here and elsewhere, and lawsuits abound. And, when it comes to many behaviors, fraternities and sororities oftentimes lag decades behind their colleges, creating powerful pockets of resistance within.
1 Like
I remember reading somewhere about the involvement of alumni. Not those who just pop back on game day to relive the glory days, but active, regular, adult supervision, monitoring and advising. You could definitely ask this question during the rush process: how many alumni are involved and what do they do?
I would absolutely avoid any chapter, sorority or fraternity, that is unrecognized by school or national org.
2 Likes
I never even considered joining a fraternity. My son that is currently in college has no use for fraternities. My younger son, that will head off to college next fall, would also never join a fraternity.
That being said, I canât understand the torch and pitchfork mentality towards fraternities and sororites here on CC.
Are there legitimate studies that prove sexual assualts happen at a higher rate in greek houses than they do in traditional campus residence halls? Iâd love to see that data.
2 Likes
Alumni involvement could have positive effects, but has also been implicated in a relatively recent (2013) scandal: https://cw.ua.edu/16498/news/the-final-barrier-50-years-later-segregation-still-exists/
But arenât there a few chapters which are their national organizations (i.e. a fraternity or sorority with one chapter), so there is no other national organization to be a part of?
Of course, lack of campus recognition, particularly if due to being derecognized for bad behavior, would be a bigger warning sign.
I actually have a nuanced view of fraternities. As I posted earlier, my fatherâs fraternity brothers have been a constant source of support and friendship throughout his life. All in their 80s now, they are still close and get together regularly. As a kid, these âbrothersâ were like uncles to me. At the same time, I am very uncomfortable with the hazing & misogyny which is prevalent at numerous frats. I was particularly disgusted by the antics at Penn State which left one pledge dead and a number of "brothersâ in trouble with the law (not exactly the âfriendsâ I would want for my kids). As to the prevalence of sexual assault, I found the following study.
I found that study, but itâs one school, and was conducted in 2014.
Do you find it odd that the study found women associated with Greek life were 2x more likely to experience nonconsensual sexual contact, but men associated with Greek life were 3.59x more likely to experience nonconsensual sexual contact? Are they intimating that women are the sexual predators?
The girls trying to become little sisters can be very aggressive. 
What makes you think that all the nonconsensual sexual contact was initiated by women? There is a long history of frat boys doing humiliating and degrading things to each other, especially (but not exclusively) with hazing.
Maybe the study should have fleshed that outâŠpun intended.
The one school didnât bother me,nor did the single year, but the odds ratio thing did. The only number that I could find that supports a 3x more likely description is the statement"Men in Greek life were 3.59 times more likely to have experienced any form of nonconsensual sexual contact than their non-Greek counterparts". I do not see how a number showing men are more likely victims can be used as evidence that they are more likely perpetrators.
With the numbers in the table, I get a p-value of 0.03 for this, not the 0.003 that they reported, but this was just me doing a chi-squared by hand and not something fancy like R. Itâs driven by the 10 Greek men who reported non-consensual sexual contact. If the 10 becomes 9, the result fails to be significant. (p=0.052)
To me, having 10 men out of 292 saying they were victims of unwanted sexual attention is not evidence that Greek men are 3x more likely to be rapists.
Different studies. The claim that âGreek men are 3x more likely to be rapistsâ comes from three different studies, one in 2005, and two in 2007. The studies are discussed in the following 2019 paper, which also describes more recent related studies.
So are we getting rid of fraternities, or menâs athletic teams, or both?
No wonder men are increasingly avoiding collegeâŠno one wants them there.