When a student can't make themselves request a recommendation

Parents Forum
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D (college sophomore) cannot bring herself to ask professors (or anyone really) for recommendations. She has done well in all of her classes and has a list of interesting accomplishments (no sports, no religion, no paid work related to her field). Her perspective is that the people she could and should ask don’t think she is anything special so what could they say. Note that she is at a small LAC which gave her merit. She is trying to apply for some summer internships. She has filled out apps, but can’t make herself submit them because she can’t ask for recs.

One thing that informs her POV is that when she was applying to transfer last spring out of a somewhat higher ranked LAC one of her professors just never submitted the requested letter. This may or may not have cost D a spot at a higher ranked school. D may have waited too long out of fear, but prof did not say no.

She got an A- in a class that is totally relevant to the internships she is applying for but she won’t contact the prof because she thinks he really doesn’t like her. (He commented positively on several of her projects and gave her a decent grade even though some of her group members didn’t do their parts of the final project.) I have told her (and I believe) that all of the guys in that class, even if they got Cs would ask the prof for a rec and he would submit something. That is the business they are in.

She doesn’t come across as a delicate flower, and she really isn’t, but this thing just paralyzes her.

I have never been great at this myself. Do any of you have any advice (other than suck it up, please)?

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I can relate. When I was a senior in college, I needed references for job applications. I was TERRIFIED of asking a professor. But I really didn’t have a choice. So I picked a prof who gave me an A in my major (and also the area I wanted to work in). I was super awkward asking, I am sure. And he could not have been nicer. He asked me some questions about my goals (and laughed at me, said he thought I could shoot higher than what I was mentioning).

One thing she needs to know is that profs write a lot of these. They write them for grad schools, internships, jobs, etc. It is really part of their job. Of course if they can’t give someone a good recommendation, or truly don’t have time, they can and should say no. But while this is a new thing for HER to ask, it is part of the daily routine for a prof.

A couple of D2’s profs had websites related to their classes, etc, and actually laid out some guildelines for asking for a recommendation (what info they want, when to ask, etc). Your D might look and see if this prof has that. But she really has to do this… remind her that she likely can’t go to grad school or get a “real job” without references. And if this prof gives her a good one, maybe she can re-use it (meaning ask him again, and he will have something already written that he can just tweak for her).

But she needs to get cracking if she wants an internship for this summer.

Oh, and internships don’t always want a letter of recommendation. They want references that can be contacted to provide reference information (a subtle distinction, but in my opinion it is less work to be a reference than to provide a letter).

One more note – one of D2’s recommenders not only agreed to be a reference for internships, but offered to make introductions for her to his former students to help her get an internship. He copied D on one of the introductory emails, and it was really glowing praise, which surprised her a little.

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“A couple of D2’s profs had websites related to their classes, etc, and actually laid out some guildelines for asking for a recommendation (what info they want, when to ask, etc). Your D might look and see if this prof has that.”

@intparent This is really helpful. I think if the prof was explicit about the fact that they expected to be asked for recs and there is a process to follow then she would be able to deal with it. I’ll ask her to look.

I was fine with getting recs for “expected” points in my life (i.e., graduation when I could convince myself that the profs would benefit from me doing well.) But when it only seemed to benefit me, I was paralyzed. I seemed to have communicated that to D (Nature or nurture? Unclear.)

I have told her that I have written recs for many people that I don’t know well. They aren’t always fabulous, but I expected to do it as part of my job. The fact that her Mom has done it doesn’t seem to motivate her. :confused:

The internship she is looking at now seems to want a letter, not just a reference, but I’ll check. As I said above, she is gun shy because prof at college #1 agreed to write a rec but did not submit one to college #2 when they sent prof instructions re submission. D did not follow up with prof because she assumed that prof just hated her. Yes, clearly irrational… (I assumed that prof was over committed and screwed up, but I was not in the loop early enough to even think about intervening.)

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It is important to stress to your daughter that writing recommendations is part of professor’s jobs. My daughter had more success once she had a class with certain professors of smaller classes, and by providing a resume.

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My son, also a college sophomore at a LAC also had this issue even though he knows some professors well having taken more than one class with them or even has another as a work supervisor. But he did ask, they said yes, and he got an internship! I think once she asks, it will be a breakthrough moment. She needs to know that multiple letters are not a burden because the professor will just slightly alter each one. Having been a professor, yes it is part of the job but I won’t lie, it can be difficult to come up with enough things to say if you don’t know a student well. I just would think of all the letters that got me where I was written by others and it would motivate me. To help the professors, she could come up with a bullet point list of things they could include in the letter to refresh their memories (like what was her paper or project about, etc.)

On the unfortunate experience of a professor never submitting a letter, yes, that sometimes happens. It happened to me with an independent study work supervisor and was awkward. But happily, 30 years (!!) later she and I worked together again and were so happy to be reacquainted, I forgot all about her missing letter. As the deadline approaches, she could send a gentle reminder email to the professor about the due date.

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Remind her that most professors, unless they are total jerks, want to see their students succeed because it reflects well on them!

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Except for health issues, communication for/with a university research position, a summer internship, industry matched mentor occurs with a flurry of phone calls home from freshman and sophomore college students. At first I was surprised, but learned to be a sounding board for the wording of emails and resume, discussing whom to contact and when to follow-up and the general anxiety that cones along with putting yourself out there in a scary new adult world. College students do not necessarily have these conversations among themselves because they are competing for the same positions or do not want to tout their achievements.

I expect to continue to listen and mentor as the decisions about industry versus grad school are made. We’re just glad to be in the loop to listen, calm the anxiety, prod if necessary and as my children tell us “live vicariously through them”.

Explain the difference between a reference for a prospective college student and a prospective employee. Employees lives are generally private and employers are only concerned about her academic capabilities, so a professor does not need to know her the same way her high school teachers did on order to write the recommendation.

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When I hire for an internship I want to see a student who not only meets the educational components but exudes poise and confidence. If she doesn’t have the confidence to ask a professor for a letter then more than likely she does not have the confidence for the internship. This is all part of her education and growing process.

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Does she have anxiety? Can she take someone with her? Would emailing be better?

10

Spending time to get to know your teachers is a skill also. Sometimes chats lead to deeper connections. That’s one thing my kid has learned.

11

I will always be grateful to the first professor my daughter asked for a recommendation. She was a little nervous because the recommendation was due on short notice (her high school GC has not completed the GC recommendation for her application to matriculate at the college where she’d done DE, including a class with this professor, so she was scrambling to get a box checked). His immediate response was, “I would be honored.” She was so relieved. She’s asked multiple professors since then for LORs for all sorts of things and has never been the least bit shy about it. As others have said, it is part of their jobs. Professors aren’t in this line of work because they dislike students. For future LORs, though, it would be helpful if she’d done more than be in the professor’s class, e.g., she’s met with him during office hours, she’s worked for him, etc. She also should always be prepared with a list of relevant information that the professor can use to inform his LOR.

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I was there once, myself, long ago. Although it’s daunting, you have to try. I would let your daughter be prepared for a “yes” but followed by a request for a draft of the letter, or at least a resume or description of her strengths. Busy professors are sometimes willing to “write” the letter if it comes to them already partially prepared. It can feel super awkward for the student, but that’s how it is for many profs.

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Don’t let that one professor scar her. The professor probably didn’t want her to transfer so chose to ignore the request. I do not like to write LORs for people, but I am always honors when people ask me.

D2 asked an attorney to write her a LOR for her law school application. He was so thrilled he actually wrote a very personal recommendation to his alma mater, which was also D2’s top choice. When she got in she told him right away and he was beyond thrilled. He was happy to be part of it.
If your D is nervous have her email the professor(s) first then follow up with in-person meeting. Just make sure your D let them know the outcome and thank them.

14

I’d be strongly encouraging (aka insisting) that D visit the career development department of her college asap.

First- there are counselors there who can explain to her the importance of being on the ball with references for internships (and everything else that’s going to come her way as she launches professionally).

Second- they will be able to ease her anxiety by explaining that this is part of a professor’s job. She’s not asking for a favor (please water my plants while I’m out of town?) but asking for a legitimate part of the professors role as teacher/mentor.

Third- they will explain to her the importance (and help her with coaching, recommend some intensive approaches if necessary) of approaching all of these authority figures with confidence if she’s going to launch. They can role play with her which might make the “ask” a little less stressful.

I am curious as to how you reacted when the professor didn’t submit the letter. One of my kids was applying to a very competitive grad program and his favorite professor just didn’t send the letter. You could go online and see the status- this U’s policy was that until the entire application was completed, nothing would be read. Nada, zip zilch. The deadline was approaching. My kid followed up with the professor a couple of times (two emails, one voice mail, an visit during office hours) and each time got the same “thanks for reminding me”. When Kid finally told us- we explained that in the real world, you never let the “perfect” be the enemy of the “good”, i.e. if the letter from Favorite Professor isn’t going to materialize, you move on to “less favorite professor”. Kid disagreed. We said “if you are prepared to kiss grad school goodbye, then fine- come up with another plan for your life”.

Next day kid asked “less favorite professor” and by end of the day, the recommendation was emailed to the grad school, showed up as “completed application” and kid was accepted.

This was a good lesson. This same kid has applied to fellowships, competitive special programs, a host of jobs which require written (and verbal) references and has now figured out- bug the person a couple of times and then move on. Don’t take it personally- but move on.

I think you can help get your D over this hurdle. I’d have been NUCLEAR that my kid wouldn’t have asked a different professor when Plan A was clearly not going to work.

It’s usually not personal. Someone is going through a messy divorce. Elderly parent just broke a hip. Basement is flooded and the insurance company says they won’t cover it and the damage is extensive. Etc. Life gets in the way. But why should your D’s future be determined by someone else’s issues? Nag a few times and then move on.

This won’t be the first recommendation she’ll need.

15

@blossom I second guess myself with respect to her prof last year dropping the ball. My philosophy on D transferring was that if she wanted to do it she needed to do it herself. I wasn’t going to track it the way I did when she was in HS. I didn’t get access to the portals for the schools she applied to and I didn’t know the deadlines. I believe D knew that that prof hadn’t submitted a rec (some schools only needed one rec) but I didn’t. I think D figured that was the prof’s way of letting her know that she didn’t deserve a rec (instead of prof saying no or it just not getting recorded.) I have thought about emailing the prof and flat out asking what happened, but I don’t want to be one of THOSE parents (D would never ever consider asking.) I do wonder if profs get dinged if their students transfer away from small LACs (and this one was a sort of adjunct type.) I do think D ended up at the right school for her. She had been admitted there as a freshman, but chose to attend an arguably more prestigious school.

The career center is a really good idea. I need to outsource with this kid as much as I can because she is much more likely to listen to others than to me. (I was a professorish sort of person(!) for a short period and me telling her that it is part of their job does not seem to work.)

Her profs generally seem to love her (lots of explicit appreciation of her humor and how they value her class discussions.) Her grades are good, not tippy top, but solidly good. She does express anxiety, but has never been diagnosed in any formal way. I know that I have had many of the same issues (remember “imposter syndrome?”). I got over it for awhile when I was young because I was on a track and I knew that my recs knew that I needed letters from them and me doing well reflected on them. It did come back to me after I took time off to raise my kids so I never really got over it. I hope she can.

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@bopper She is definitely anxious about it. Doing it in person makes her anxious. Doing it in front of a friend would make her anxious. Emailing makes her anxious too. Maybe a carrier pigeon?

I feel like the only thing that would help is if her professors all explicitly said: “I expect some of you to ask me for a recommendation. I will happily do it if you meet these requirements (1,2,3 whatever).” Or amybe an online form to submit? She is fine with those.

As is, she frets about it and then waits until the last minute and then can’t do it because it’s too late. Self sabotage. It’s so hard for me to watch because she is such a smart and cool and interesting person and people who are practically strangers have told me that. Maybe I should ask people like that to write letters for her and hold on to them for the future!

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This might sound simplistic, but as a very shy person, the best advice I ever got was to PRETEND I wasn’t nervous talking to people. It does work. The person you’re speaking to has no idea you’re scared to death. PRETEND you’re confident. But it is something she’ll want to work on, As someone up above said, being that reticent around people might hold her back when it comes to interviews and getting hired. I’m sure the career center can help her with that.

18

I told my kid that asking for and wiggling a good LOR from your teachers is just as an important skill for success as getting good GPA, and that he better have a tactic and put some thought into it. Our kid learned that non-academic factors are important in getting accepted to any scholarships and programs. Important to ask for LOR early and tell them to discuss you also from non-academic perspective.

19

I would suggest a push in this area. Learning to communicate via phone and personal communication is an important skill. Most teachers expect to be asked for references so this is probably an opportunity to have a positive outcome. She will likely be asked for a resume as teachers will not know much about many of their students beyond how they perform in class. Preparing a resume may help her feel prepared for the discussion.

There will be times ahead where she will need to be proactive and seek discussions with adults and other students. She will need to contact guidance counselors, professors, employers and more. My youngest D did not like communicating via phone. Though she didn’t have the anxiety that you are describing, she ended up getting offered a position as an undergraduate assistant for a Physical Therapy professor (her plan is to be physical therapist). Her job was to contact offices to see if they had patients willing to participate in a study the professor was working on. She then had to call back and followup. It was definitely outside of her comfort zone. I can’t say she enjoyed it but it forced her to become more comfortable communicating directly with people.

Good luck.

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When anxiety is interfering with your life, it is time to get evaluated for anxiety.