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This is a very good suggestion. He makes threats because they work. If they don’t, they’ll stop.</p>
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For as long as you want him to act like a child.</p>
<p>I’m not understanding why DSS23 is currently upset. Did he expect you and your DH to pay the rent and deposit for the 2nd time (since he spent the money already sent for that purpose)? Does not having anything to do with your DH include not taking any more money?</p>
<p>You might just let DSS23 have his temper tantrum. Meanwhile, get a family counselor for you and DH. Let the counselor guide the decision making. It would certainly help if all parents were on the same page, but it’s not mandatory. If you want to talk to your DH about the school loans, etc, fine. But the response should be your DH’s. If DSS23 threatens violence against himself, call the appropriate authorities. </p>
<p>What did you and DH outline in the earlier transition conversation for DSS23? The younger siblings need a chance to complete their education…all the resources cannot be used for DSS23. </p>
<p>I am sorry you are having to deal with all of this. It sounds like it’s going be a rocky road for a while. It also sounds like this is a road you would eventually travel with DSS23 no matter what you or your DH decide to do. It’s not about your behavior/actions. It’s about his behavior/actions.</p>
<p>“I’m not understanding why DSS23 is currently upset. Did he expect you and your DH to pay the rent and deposit for the 2nd time (since he spent the money already sent for that purpose)? Does not having anything to do with your DH include not taking any more money?”</p>
<p>He did expect DH to give him money. DSS23 is not talking to us, but he has posted on Facebook that DH has betrayed him . He says that they simply “had their dates wrong” on the rent. The truth is that the landlord gave him until Sept. 1st to catch up, but DSS23 figured they had till the end of September, hence the “dates wrong” thing. </p>
<p>Neither DSS23 or the girlfriend will admit that they just spent the money that was designated for the rent.</p>
<p>He is also angry that DH “took the girlfriends side” over “his own son.” This is because DH was upset that he was verbally abusing the girlfriend and swearing at her while DH was trying to talk to him.</p>
<p>According to Facebook, DSS23’s plan is to “sell off all his stuff” to make good on the rent. He is also saying he won’t be returning to school , because his dad was his “financial lifeline” and he can’t go to school without dads money.</p>
<p>I called the college admissions office anonymously today to see if he can take a semester off and then return if all is well. He can. </p>
<p>Then I called the college mental health emergency center. The number is now typed into my phone. The counselour I talked to said the the behavior I am describing would not be conducive to doing well in school, which I know. She did say that most of their cases are not caused by mental illness, but are caused by substance abuse. Since DSS23 wasted a lot of money, I think she is guessing substance abuse, but I think it might be a combination of things. I’d sure like to know.</p>
<p>They can’t force DSS23 to come in and see them, but they will do an outreach and call him. If he gives them any reason to think he could cause harm to himself, the girlfriend or their dogs, they will arrange for someone to go to his place.</p>
<p>My last call will to be to the local welfare office. If DSS23 drops out of school, and doesn’t get a job, I’m wondering if he and the girlfriend can at least get food stamps. She does not go to school. </p>
<p>Now I have to present this information to DH and see what he wants to do.</p>
<p>Why are you worrying about his food? He should be the one to make sure that he can figure out how he is going to eat. He should be the one to see if he can withdraw from the college for a semester and come back. I may sound mean, but he is not 12 years old. He needs to figure out these things on his own without his parents doing all of the arranging for him.</p>
<p>I think that he should sell his things to “make good on the rent”. How many $700-800 checks can you write per month? Your DH gave him that and he is now rationalizing why he spent that money that was earmarked for rent. Frankly, he sounds very angry that he has to sell his things. The truth is that this is the consequence for spending money meant for rent on other things. He should appreciate the financial support that your DH is still offering to him. Instead of being angry, he should be remorseful IMO.</p>
<p>“He should appreciate the financial support that your DH is still offering to him. Instead of being angry, he should be remorseful IMO.”</p>
<p>Right. Thats what I thought. But when you read his Facebook posts, you can see that he really believes the lies he is telling. </p>
<p>I have to look at this like he has a mental illness or substance abuse problem. </p>
<p>We keep trying to look at it like he is a normal person, and that he should be reacting like a normal person would, but since he is not, I feel like it would be irresponsible to not consider the worst.</p>
<p>I mean, to review:</p>
<p>We have verbal abuse of the girlfriend.
We have him cutting off all contact with his father except for texts in which he tells DH to leave him alone .
We have the threat to kill himself.
We have an escalating torrent of angry Facebook posts, in which he takes no responsibility for the problems at hand, and outright lies about what happened.
We have him putting his hand through the wall and injuring himself.</p>
<p>I have to at least consider that he has a problem that goes beyond laziness and sloth. I can’t decide if the normal thought processes of how to deal with this apply.</p>
<p>I greatly sympathize with you. I have watched family members go through something similar and it is not easy. It’s so much easier for those of us a step back from it to see (in our opinion) more clearly and give great advice. Not so easy if you’re in the middle of it.</p>
<p>But from afar, what I see is that you WANT to come up with a reason that he is behaving like he is that does not entail “he’s spoiled rotten and needs to grow up.” I agree with northeastmom. Time for him to grow up and handle it on his own. Part of the reason he could be so angry is because deep down he knows he’s wrong. He’d have more confidence in himself if he could figure this out. There is absolutely no reason two able bodied 23 yr olds should be collecting food stamps.</p>
<p>V-At this point, if I were in your shoes, AND if we could swing it financially, I would send to DH to DSS23 house this weekend. You would have to stay behind as you are the target for his anger. (God forbid it was DSS23 own stupidity that got him here…you are so much easier to blame) Maybe then DSS23 would see that the two of you are very concerned about what is going on. An observation on the apartment might not be a bad either. What are living conditions there, etc. If I remember correctly, DSS23 lives far away, but sometimes we have to do what is right despite geography.</p>
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<p>I agree completely with this! You do need to make sure that he is not going to hurt himself or others. Now, as far as his behaviors, if he has become an addict, he is still responsible for his behavior. His behavior may be a part of his disease, but that does not absolve him from natural consequences of his actions. Just editing to add, that for example, if you just hand over another $700 or $800 for rent, what has he learned? He will think that dad will be “his lifeline” regardless of how irresponsible he is. Using the money for his own needs rather than to pay the rent, I think, is a form of theft. I believe that he needs to be held accountable for his actions, whether he is bipolar, or on drugs, etc. I would let him sell his things to pay the rent and feel the pain of what $700 in rent means. He does not work so he does not currently feel how hard it is to earn each of those dollars. Perhaps if he worked for $10/hour he would appreciate the help his father is offering, rather than throwing money away THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO HIM. Perhaps a good exercise for him would be to make a list of all of money/resources that you and/or your husband have offered to him since he turned 18. Perhaps he should add it up and see how “terrible” his dad really is. Perhaps it will help him to begin to change.</p>
<p>"V-At this point, if I were in your shoes, AND if we could swing it financially, I would send to DH to DSS23 house this weekend. You would have to stay behind as you are the target for his anger. (God forbid it was DSS23 own stupidity that got him here…you are so much easier to blame) Maybe then DSS23 would see that the two of you are very concerned about what is going on. "</p>
<p>I think this is an excellent idea, but we can’t afford it, especially if DH decides to send money to his landlord.</p>
<p>“But from afar, what I see is that you WANT to come up with a reason that he is behaving like he is that does not entail “he’s spoiled rotten and needs to grow up.””</p>
<p>I’d love to think he is just lazy and spoiled. Then I would have no guilt when and if DH cuts him off. I think I was buying into lazy and spoiled until he put the hand through the wall. Why do you do that? </p>
<p>"His behavior may be a part of his disease, but that does not absolve him from natural consequences of his actions. "</p>
<p>Agreed. Thats why I’d like to see him take off a semester from school. I’d like for him to get a job, help pay the back rent, at least see the mental health counselor and get himself straight before he attempts to go back to school. I’m sure he won’t agree to see the counselor, but maybe if DH uses it as a condition to get money?</p>
<p>I think having him see the mental health counselor is more for me than for him at this point. I don’t want to think I ignored something, and then have him hurt himself or anyone else.</p>
<p>I only thought of food stamps because the girlfriend has 2 minimum wage jobs, and doesn’t go to school. I’m thinking if nothing else, she deserves a break. At least she works.</p>
<p>"Perhaps a good exercise for him would be to make a list of all of money/resources that you and/or your husband have offered to him since he turned 18. Perhaps he should add it up and see how “terrible” his dad really is. Perhaps it will help him to begin to change. "</p>
<p>Yes, but it might make me a little ill. :-)</p>
<p>^^I can definitely understand that!</p>
<p>Okay, so what happens if he takes a semester off, which I think is probably a very good idea, and he does not work, and he does not see a counselor. If I were you or your DH I would not want to pay for him to sleep and do drugs 24/7!! </p>
<p>You cannot control what he is going to choose to do, or not do. You can only control how you respond to him and how you and your husband live.</p>
<p>"Okay, so what happens if he takes a semester off, which I think is probably a very good idea, and he does not work, and he does not see a counselor. If I were you or your DH I would not want to pay for him to sleep and do drugs 24/7!! "</p>
<p>Yup. If that happens, at least we didn’t take out more loans for school and neither did he. I guess he is making the choice then to be a welfare recipiant or worse. This really does stink.</p>
<p>I agree that this situation stinks, in fact it sounds like pure hell. So, will you pay for months or a year of rent if he should decide not to do anything and perhaps just drink or use drugs? What might you do in that case? Did your husband sign or cosign on the lease, and would you be stuck paying to support your ss’s lifestyle if it is not going to be a good one?</p>
<p>I thought he kicked you off his FB …</p>
<p>So that’s the secret – do drugs and drink and parents will cover expenses? Why didn’t I think of this sooner?</p>
<p>^^^^ Because you are unlucky not to have the kind of caring parents he has. I remember your story when you were down and out in Texas.</p>
<p>All this stress and drama has to be affecting your relationship with your other kids and with your husband. I am so sorry you are going through this. It is very possible that your DSS has an issue that goes beyond being spoiled. It may be substance abuse or some other psychopathology. However, even if that is the case, there is little you or your husband can do if DSS doesn’t want it to change. You and your husband can be there if he hits bottom and decides to claw his way back. You can help him get treatment and support at that point. But, unless there is definite evidence that he may injure himself or someone else, there is really little intervention that you can offer that will either be effective or accepted. That hurts, creates guilt and is not a comfortable way to live but it is a reality that must be accepted if you are going to move forward and keep some semblance of a relationship with each other and with your other kids. </p>
<p>Hopefully, neither you or your husband cosigned the lease for your DSS. If that is the case, then you may be on the hook for not only DSS 1/2 but for the girlfriend’s also. And if you did not cosign the lease, your husband needs to make it very clear to the landlord that this is a one time thing, that he is in no way responsible for this lease or his son’s behavior, and that this is a gift only and does not obligate him any further. While the girlfriend seems to be more responsible with jobs and is being at least verbally abused by your DSS, remember, she didn’t pay her 1/2 of the rent either. That is not responsible adult behavior.</p>
<p>Whatever your DSS issues are, you need to get help for you and your husband so that you can help your kiddos - all of them. Your 20 year old daughter needs to know in a tangible way that you appreciate her responsibility and that you support her too in order to avoid future hostility. She appears to be an independent and responsible person. She is going to make it in this world. It would be a shame if resentment on her part lead her to move off into the adult world with little contact with you because she was so little trouble that she became “the forgotten child”. The 18 year old needs to see action on your husband’s part that says we will support you if you make a reasonable effort to move forward with your life and take responsibility for your actions but if not, then we won’t be used to help you screw things up. If your DSD doesn’t see that occur with her brother, then she may well follow his gameplan. And the 23 year old daughter needs to see that you are proud of her accomplishments and because of that you are willing to live up to any committments you made to help her when she decided to take the Japan job (did you offer to help with some of her expenses that allowed her to take this job?) but that future committments will require her to come up with a viable plan to cover the costs. </p>
<p>You and your husband need to cut enough of the kids expenses that you can afford counseling for yourselves. If your DSS really has pychopathology issues, then you both need to understand those issues and what you can do that will help and what you are doing that simply enables him to continue to not deal with his problems. You need to understand the best way to help each of your other kids. You need to learn to accept both how you can help and how to accept when you cannot. And with all the kids now having reach “adult” age, you need to find how to make each other your priority after so many years of your priority being parents. How can you expect to convince your DSS to get help if you are unwilling to set the example and look for that same thing yourselves? It is possible that a few couples session in addition to a couple of individual sessions may be in order. You and your husband have made such great strides in the last couple of weeks. The fallout from your actions will naturally be substantial. You need help learning how to weather that fallout so that you may all grow stronger and better as a family for all this stress and turmoil. I wish you the best. You deserve to know that you and your husband are a good people and good parents. I think you need someone else to help you get to that point.</p>
<p>It sounds like OP and her H are in way over their heads. OP, your ss does not sound “normal”. He is hostile, angry, destructive and irresponsible from the actions that you describe. You can not fix him. He is an adult now, and must fix himself. If he refuses to accept help you can’t force him. FWIW his versions of events remind me of my step D’s mother who is an intractable alcoholic, among other mental health issues. I pray for you that your step son does not end up there. You and your H could use some professional counseling to sort out what you can do to not be manipulated, enabling etc. and to be appropriately supportive. </p>
<p>Good luck to you and your family.</p>
<p>"I thought he kicked you off his FB … "</p>
<p>Spies. People are telling us what he is saying.</p>
<p>Your responses are so well thought out and helpful, but at this moment I can barely focus on what you all are saying. I sat down DH and asked him to help me out- tell me what he really feels about all this. DH ended up in tears.</p>
<p>Anyway, it turns out DSS23 is suspended from college for low grades. I didn’t know this. DH found a few days ago and didn’t want to upset me any further. DSS23 was supposed to go and petition the dean to get back in for fall semester, but we don’t know if he did, because he is not talking to us.</p>
<p>Maybe this is what needs to happen and is supposed to happen. A decision has been made for us. </p>
<p>Now we need to figure out the rest. DH is talking to his mom right now. He is warning her not to give DSS23 money if he calls, so I know he knows what needs to be done. It’s just hard. </p>
<p>Thanks everyone. I’m going to re-read everything tomorrow morning when I can get the picture of my crying Dh out of my head and focus.</p>