When does diversity shopping become racism?

Applying to College
121

<p>fabrizio:</p>

<p>Oh, I don't think he was undermined in any way. To me, the issue is that it is not possible to grow up in white America with black skin and not have a different experience from that of a white American. Our community is very white, but extremely tolerant overall. Imagine his experience in, say, Orange County, Texas or Hazard, Kentucky.</p>

<p>Having black skin in America really does make one's life experiences different from those of white people, and just because of the black skin.</p>

122

<p>warbler:</p>

<p>He's at TAMU. He's very impressed with the faculty and absolutely despises the community. But that's OK because he's way busy. But there are parts of Bryan/College Station and East Texas he stays as far away from as possible.</p>

123

<p>
[quote]
If he's admitted, it should be because he's qualified and sticks out. For example, let's say that he volunteers to help some of his family members who are stuck on a reservation. Maybe he tries to cut down alcohol use. Maybe he gives speeches. Maybe he is fluent in a tribal language. Maybe he organizes meetings and dances. Stuff like that.</p>

<p>It is not his skin color that gives him a different perspective on life. It is how he chose to identify with his background in the context of being an American that gives him his unique outlook on life.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes.... and that is how affirmative action works. Thank you for finally getting it!</p>

<p>Then again maybe you still don't.</p>

<p>Tarhunt's story was an example of how racism is still very prevelent in American society... which is why there is a clear difference between a wealthy black person and a wealthy white person... and therefore why affirmative action is important because it increases racial diversity in a school.</p>

124

<p>Just_Browsing,</p>

<p>I've noticed a peculiar thing about affirmative action.</p>

<p>Ask ten different people what the color blue looks like, and assuming that none of them is colorblind, you'll get one answer.</p>

<p>Ask ten different people what affirmative action is, and you'll get ten different responses.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Having black skin in America really does make one's life experiences different from those of white people, and just because of the black skin.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Obviously, there are many people who do believe that a person of X race must automatically have different life views JUST because she is of X race.</p>

<p>I highly disagree.</p>

<p>And, that is why I am laughing somewhat at your "Thank you for finally getting it!" comment.</p>

125

<p>
[quote]
Obviously, there are many people who do believe that a person of X race must automatically have different life views JUST because she is of X race.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, they will have different life views because they are different people....</p>

<p>
[quote]
And, that is why I am laughing somewhat at your "Thank you for finally getting it!" comment.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Its a good thing you're laughing, cause that was meant to be a joke ;).</p>

126

<p>Also, you'll only get a different response to what affirmative action is from people who don't understand it (people who understand it generally support it).</p>

<p>Among supporters, the only real differences lie in why it is there and how it should best be used.</p>

127

<p>
[quote]
No, they will have different life views because they are different people....

[/quote]

Aren't we all different people?</p>

128

<p>
[quote]
Having black skin in America really does make one's life experiences different from those of white people, and just because of the black skin.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>fabrizio:</p>

<p>This is exactly the point I was trying to make. If you are white, or even Asian, you would not have an experience like my son had. Unless you are black, you can't know what it means to be pulled over for driving while black or even walking while black. Being different was a daily part of his life. He learned to deal with it and he had many, many, many advantages most kids don't get. But he still knows what it feels like to have people lock the doors of their cars when he walks by just because of the color of his skin.</p>

<p>He brings this experience to class discussions and even informal discussions with his peers. He brings something unique that is simply a part of him.</p>

129

<p>"...you'll only get a different response to what affirmative action is from people who don't understand it (people who understand it generally support it)."</p>

<p>AMEN.</p>

130

<p>This debate is endless. For people who are against AA, I don't see anyone doing anything to challenge it except that one kid who sued Princeton. *If you want result, lobby your congressmen or start more lawsuits, or form a organization or call for a protest, boycott. * It is no use to debate about it on discussion board. Agree?</p>

131

<p>Tarhunt-</p>

<p>Thanks. I guess the small private high school I go to doesn't give me much experience on this, so it isn't really fair for me to comment. The ONE black guy that goes to our school has only reported one kind of racial discrimination so I guess that doesn't really hit home for me.</p>

<p>Certainly, if I were an URM, I would get sick and tired of hearing people devalue my accomplishments and say I would get in, or I had just gotten in because of my skin color. That would annoy the hell out of me </p>

132

<p>^^ Quickflood - Tarhunt just brought something new to the table - or at least new for me. At least this disco board can help people gain a better understanding of AA... Sure it doesn't achieve any concrete objectives - if you think there's nothing to gain then don't read/comment.</p>

<p>simple.</p>

133

<p>^URMs don't have it that much easier than Asians or Whites for college admissions. My friend has a 2200 SAT and is a Hispanic Catholic. He did not get into Notre Dame EA (his GPA was on the low side though). My other friend is a Hispanic Catholic with SAT and GPA just as good as mine (mid 2200s and near straight As). He did not get into Georgetown EA. I got into Penn ED as an Asian. URMs may have it slighly easier, but it is ignorant to think that colleges slash their standards to admit URMs.</p>

134

<p>
[quote]
Certainly, if I were an URM, I would get sick and tired of hearing people devalue my accomplishments and say I would get in, or I had just gotten in because of my skin color. That would annoy the hell out of me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Another sad example of racism in this country.</p>

135

<p>Tarhunt,</p>

<p>
[quote]

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. If you are white, or even Asian, you would not have an experience like my son had. Unless you are black, you can't know what it means to be pulled over for driving while black or even walking while black. Being different was a daily part of his life. He learned to deal with it and he had many, many, many advantages most kids don't get. But he still knows what it feels like to have people lock the doors of their cars when he walks by just because of the color of his skin.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Let me recount another anecdote.</p>

<p>On the last day of my high school freshman year, I asked a friend to give me a ride home. We are both Asian. As expected, the parking lot was packed, and some police officers were helping direct traffic. My friend decides to take a "short-cut" of shorts.</p>

<p>One officer isn't pleased. He walks over to the car, taps the window, and says, "Since you're such a smart-ass, you can wait for him."</p>

<p>'Him' was a car who came after us (the driver was White). After he left, a Jeep Cherokee with four Black guys went into the queue. They were blasting some rap music and enjoying the fact that school was out.</p>

<p>The officer's reaction? Nothing at all. He looked at them, went pale for a few seconds, and then left us to resume his duty.</p>

<p>He feared four big Black guys, but he did not fear two Asian guys.</p>

<p>Another police anecdote, as follows:</p>

<p>My mom was driving me to school one day back in middle school. We were on a highway when an officer flashed his lights and told my mom to pull over. He claimed that my mom was "too close" to another car, even though we were a quite a safe distance behind all the cars. After he claimed that, he proceeded to mumble a few words loudly and then left, thanking us for our "cooperation" and wishing us "a good day."</p>

<p>So, yes, I have been in two incidents where the car I was in was pulled over because the driver was Asian. Granted, two is not a significant number, but it has happened, and thus, I do know what it's like.</p>

136

<p>Just_Browsing,</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, you'll only get a different response to what affirmative action is from people who don't understand it (people who understand it generally support it).</p>

<p>Among supporters, the only real differences lie in why it is there and how it should best be used.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, not really.</p>

<p>For example, you support affirmative action and have no problem with the phrase "racial preferences." You don't even have a problem with "racial discrimination."</p>

<p>Many, many other pro-affirmative action users here (mostly parents) have huge, HUGE problems with the phrase "racial preferences."</p>

<p>Some claim it's misleading. Others say it doesn't exist.</p>

<p>I add the "not really" because yes, people who "understand" it generally do support it.</p>

<p>If we define "understand" to mean:</p>

<ol>
<li>A need to atone for historical sins</li>
<li>A need to publicly state grievances in exchange for benefits</li>
</ol>

137

<p>For the record, I do think the phrases "racial preferences" and "racial discrimination" are very misleading. But my "lack of issue" with them has nothing to do with my understanding of what affirmative action actually is. I'd imagine any definition I procured for affirmative action would be about the same as tarhunt's or Bay's. Admittedly we would probably use different words, but that doesn't change the meaning.</p>

<p>As for your understanding, that is only one of many aspects of affirmative action. If those two points are the full extent of your understanding, then no, you do not understand affirmative action.</p>

138

<p>fabrizio: re #135</p>

<p>
[quote]
So, yes, I have been in two incidents where the car I was in was pulled over because the driver was Asian. Granted, two is not a significant number, but it has happened, and thus, I do know what it's like.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wait a minute. You say the officer had cause in the first incident because the driver did something. That's being pulled over for doing something, not for being Asian. In the second instance, it sounds like the officer knew he got it wrong.</p>

<p>Hey, I'm white and my white father and we were pulled over on I-85 in North Carolina for doing 85 in a 70 zone in an old truck that would shake itself apart at 65. Cars were passing us right and left. The cop got a bad reading on his radar, that's all.</p>

<p>Two incidents doesn't equal a pattern. I'm talking about a pattern.</p>

139

<p>Tarhunt,</p>

<p>Is "trying to get out of a crowded parking lot" cause for intervention?</p>

<p>My friend did nothing wrong. He just tried to get out. Another driver with three Black passengers also tried to get out. The police officer addressed us but not them. Why?</p>

140

<p>
[quote]

As for your understanding, that is only one of many aspects of affirmative action. If those two points are the full extent of your understanding, then no, you do not understand affirmative action.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And, would you care to enlighten me as to why you support racial preferences?</p>