<p>I’m more like poetgrl in that we as parents always back the teacher and try to manage the situation. I also agree that it is difficult to complain if you have other kids coming up. In a small system there is often not a choice of teacher for a particular subject area and you could be fueling fire for the next couple kids. We have discovered that the subject area teachers in the advanced classes have to do remedial triage to compensate for the weak teacher so ultimately the kids learn the information, just maybe not in the “year” they were supposed to which supports my belief that other teachers and administrators must know who these weaker teachers are. Not fun for the teacher who has to do the remedial work on top of the usual work for that year. Fortunately I’ve never had to escalate much, other parents have done it for me LOL. Abuse I won’t tolerate and I only had one minor borderline issue with S1 and that person has since been ‘roped’ in and is administrative now and not in the classroom which is a good thing. We have a highly desireable system and it’s a shame when you have so many people that would like to teach here and could easily replace the couple that are weak.</p>
<p>I agree that the frustration one sees expressed on CC is most often due to the powerlessness we parents feel to change a bad situation for our kids. I’ve only intervened when I thought a situation was seriously psychologically damaging–and yes there have been a number of these. But either you can’t effect change because 1) obviously the problem is your kid–not the teacher, or 2) this is life and your kid just needs to get used to it. What is he going to do in the real world if he has a mean boss he doesn’t like? 3) you’re the ONLY parent who has complained, so there must not really be a problem, or 4) we’ll fix this but your kid will somehow be punished for the rest of the year because you spoke up.</p>
<p>We all make mistakes and we all have areas of our work which need improvement. Every organization has issues. The important thing is what happens when a problem is brought to your attention, or when someone is dissatisfied with your work? How will you handle that? Do you try to understand their point of view? Do you try to work with them and accommodate them to the extent it’s possible? Or do you become angry, defensive, and nasty? Do you take out your anger on the person or his child? My beef with schools is the lack of professionalism I’ve seen displayed when faced with a problem. There have been some pretty serious and documented/proven problems and I regret to say parents have had little impact in resolving these problems. My kids have taken many a hit when I’ve tried to do that. Sample of what happens: “Well, I was going to show you a movie now, but I can’t because Mrs. _____ complained I was showing you too many movies in class.”</p>
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<p>I just had to comment on this. I think it is pathetic that this person was given a higher level position, with higher pay…in the same field (and it sounds like the same town). Why do folks think that a poor teacher will make a good administrator? Sorry…I’ve worked with admins like this. They really needed to leave education.</p>
<p>Sad & funny but true GFG. I got in trouble last year when a coach/teacher was trying to round up a car pool to drive my middle schooler and the rest of the middle school baseball team 6 blocks to the field. Yes 6 blocks if that. I basically sent a blast e-mail to the teacher/coach and all the parents expressing my outrage. I said the kids needed the exercise and we parents certainly didn’t need to waste the gas and if there “wasn’t enough time” for the kids to walk then they could start practice 10 minutes later. Apparently it circulated through the school and my son was kidded by teachers and other kids alike as every parent “showed” their kid my e-mail. I am absolutely forbidden by my youngest to complain about anything ever again.</p>
<p>D. (college junior) has praised her HS teachers a lot for her college success and I believe she has even written “Thank you” emails of appreciation after she discovered that she is prepared better for college than most others in her Honors program. She has graduated from very small private HS (160 total, senior class of 33) with non-union teachers who were paid much less (from what I heard) than other teachers. Still some of them have been with this school for most of their lives and some were known in town as very good in their subjects, tutoring kids from other schools.</p>
<p>The teachers at my D’s high school are, by and large, very good, and they get a lot of parental and community support. There are some duds, but for the most part D has had good experiences with her teachers. There was one instance when I asked to have her removed from a particular teacher’s class before school had started and her guidance counselor bent over backwards to accommodate my request (and agreed that the teaching/learning styles involved were incompatible). I think having an administration/guidance staff that is willing to work with you helps a LOT. You could not pay me enough to go into the classroom with a bunch of teenagers, so I would never say high school teachers are overpaid. As for teacher’s unions, I’ve heard of things that teacher’s unions in general do that I don’t think are in the best interest of the kids or the schools, but the teacher’s union at D’s high school is pretty much invisible to me.</p>
<p>“Recommendations? We write hundreds in our career. You may not like this, but this is not part of our job”</p>
<p>A good teacher makes it their job. This is the problem I have with teacher unions and why I could not work at a school with teacher unions</p>
<p>And in my area, teachers are quite well paid. This will obviously vary by area but in my area, compensation is quite attractive.</p>
<p>It is not always as easy as some make it seem to get rid of a bad teacher. Union rules, tenure, unemployment costs, faculty disruption, etc all factor in.</p>
<p>That said, most of the teacher I have encountered at both public and private schools have been good - but I would say 20% have been poor.</p>
<p>Finally, having worked in both private industry and in schools. I can tell you working in a school is I like to say, not real world compared to all of the other fileds I was able to observe or work in. By this I mean the time off, overall hours, vacation time, etc is so much better in a school than anywhere else.</p>
<p>I’m sorry. I really can’t wrap my head around this. Are people actually attacking workers unions in this thread.</p>
<p>You can really tell the white upper class conservative demographic of this site.</p>
<p>Which is why we do it, BerryBerry61. But if you worked in college admissions, would you want a recommendation from a teacher who was paid to do it? Unions have nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>For those of you who think teacher are no longer underpaid, you don’t have the full picture. In affluent neighborhoods with a high tax base many educators are fortunate enough to be paid well.</p>
<p>In our tiny, rural, title 1 high school we have an amazing science department headed by an amazingly gifted teacher. After 30+ years of service to this district he makes 55K per year. In what other profession could a supremely talented person with an MA work for this amount of time and be at that pay level?</p>
<p>And please, don’t give me the “for just 9 mos of work” silliness. Our summer runs from the middle of June through the middle of August. A nice break to be sure but not a three month one. Plus the teachers you all tout as being the exceptional ones are there well passed contract hours and spend time in their classrooms over the summer as well. Oh, and in addition, the best of us are also attending conferences and workshops in our summer months so that we can return to your kids in the fall re energized and with new strategies under our belts.</p>
<p>Agree that toxic teachers should be easier to fire and agree in theory with merit pay. But I have yet to see a merit pay plan that is workable and fair and doesn’t rely too heavily on my second language learners, drug exposed students, children of high school dropouts who have learned that social programs are far less trouble than hard work and otherwise disadvantaged clientele to achieve a statistically impossible score on a standardized test.</p>
<p>Pageturner - What exactly are you paid to do then? Your job as a teacher should include not only teaching in the classroom but also all of the things outside the classroom that are expected of and make one a good teacher. This includes writing recommendations, attending some athletic / arts events your students participate in, etc. To say you are not paid for writing recommendations is just wrong IMO. it is all part of the job.</p>
<p>Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that one. What if the student is a slacker or worse? Am I obligated to write a recommendation?</p>
<p>After 30+ years of service to this district he makes 55K per year. In what other profession could a supremely talented person with an MA work for this amount of time and be at that pay level?</p>
<p>You mean other than in the arts or sciences/social sciences?</p>
<p>That is about what my husband would make, if he wasn’t forced to work three weekends out of four every month.</p>
<p>( I do think the teacher should be paid more than that & that is why I am for merit pay)</p>
<p>OUr state hasn’t approved charter schools, our city has a large percentage of students attending private schools- and it is clear there is change in the wind.</p>
<p>Washington D.C. has been talking about a voluntary participation plan for teachers- you could be paid on merit and earn more- but leave yourself open to review or you can stick with tenure and be paid a little less.
I do think that teachers should receive extra pay for extra work, but that is something that the union has never allowed here.</p>
<p>It’s too bad, because I think they are shooting themselves in the foot when there isn’t a clear reward system for teachers who have earned it when teachers who just show up are paid the same.</p>
<p>It also makes hiring teachers with a strong math/science background more difficult, because they can either go into other fields for more pay/satisfaction or they can go to the private schools where they can have better working conditions even if they are paid less ( although many parent groups do raise money to supplement teacher pay)</p>
<p>emarldkitty…sorry I left out “Working in the field of sciences” and I think you nailed it. Since education falls in to the arts and social sciences in the hearts and minds of those that hold the purse strings it is similary compensated.</p>
<p>My point is that this man is a brilliant mind, a dedicated professional who chose to give back and teach and his pay (and apparently your H’s) is in the tank. </p>
<p>Another thing some may not be aware of is that in school like ours with a lower pay scale, it is difficult to attract high quality new teachers. Every spring when we have openings we interview qualified, high caliber people. Every year we offer jobs to those people only to learn that though they loved our school, they took a position in a different community where they were going to make more money. This leaves us scrambling to refly positions, re interview candidates and then choose from a pool populated by those candidates who have not already been snapped…often because of their quality…or lack thereof.</p>
<p>Low teacher pay affects every member of both our educational and larger community.</p>
<p>My D started out in private school, moved to public school, and has been at a charter school for the past 5 years. Seems like we’ve experienced it all. Along the way she has had some truly outstanding teachers, many good teachers and only a couple of bad ones. In the case of the bad one at her charter school, the school got a new principal and suddenly that teacher decided to resign. Hmmmm… </p>
<p>There are bad apples in every industry. I have spent my career (25 years) in the nonprofit world. So many dedicated people making not very much money. But also the few who are the kind who give the entire industry a bad name. If this was "nameofindustry"confidential.com you would see the same venting about those bad apples. </p>
<p>We have shown our appreciation over the years in many ways, but this thread reminds me to make sure D is making an extra effort to say thank you to the teachers/administrators who are filling our forms, writing recs and doing all they can to help send her off to a great college and a bright future.</p>
<p>I knew I should skip this thread…oh, well, here goes…</p>
<p>My husband had been a highly-paid cinematographer/episodic television director for 30 years or so when he went back to school to get his teaching credential. (He did so because, as a classroom volunteer, he was inspired by the outstanding teachers at our daughters’ elementary school.) He had to jump through many hoops to get that credential: not only did he need an additional two years of schooling, but he also had to take multiple standardized tests, pass numerous background checks, and serve for several months as an unpaid teaching intern in a public elementary school. Several times during those years he commented that you’d have to be truly dedicated to the profession to go through the difficult process of getting credentialed in our state. He’s been employed as an elementary school teacher in our local district for the last six years. </p>
<p>Overpaid? There’s no way we could afford to live in this district on his salary, even though his MFA and additional postgraduate training put him at the top of the range. (Fortunately, we bought our house 20+ years ago.) To put this in a way that CC parents can understand, our kids would easily qualify for financial aid for college based on his current salary.</p>
<p>Short hours? Yes, the hours are shorter than in the film industry (which is known for INSANE hours - I’ve worked 24-hour days on the set.) But teachers don’t work a 6-hour day as some of you seem to think. DH is in the classroom from 7AM to 5 PM, Monday through Friday. He’s also there for at least half a day every Saturday or Sunday during the school year, preparing for the next week’s lessons. (Fortunately, there’s a TV in the room so he can have the football/basketball/baseball game on in the background on the weekends!)</p>
<p>Working only 10 months a year? His time off is UNPAID. He regularly works summers teaching intensive intervention summer school for the extra money, and is already fretting because there won’t be any summer school next year due to budget cuts. And during the two or three weeks he does have off during the summer, he’s usually in his classroom a few days a week tying up loose ends from the last year or preparing for next year’s students.</p>
<p>Teachers unions? There are a lot of forces out there which impact the quality of public education, but teachers unions seem to be the favored whipping boy at the moment. I’ve worked at both union and non-union jobs in other industries, and I have to say that in my experience workers are routinely exploited in non-union jobs. Teachers unions fight for smaller class sizes, better pay and working conditions for teachers (which serves to attract more qualified individuals to the profession), and better textbooks and materials for students. How is that detrimental to the quality of your child’s education? I know that there are some bad teachers out there, but in my 18 years as a parent in this district, they have been few and far between.</p>
<p>And with regard to tenure: My husband is alone in the classroom five days a week with children of widely-varying abilities and levels of maturity. He’s expected to teach emotionally disturbed kids, kids with IEPs, English language learners, gifted students, and average Joes and Janes, and to help each of them to achieve to the best of his/her ability. He does a great job - he and his students have won several awards - but inevitably, there are parents who are unhappy with him for one thing or another. (This will come as a shock to some of you, but sometimes your kids don’t tell you the whole truth about what goes on in the classroom. Sometimes the problem IS your child, ESPECIALLY if you’re the only one complaining.) Now that he’s proved that he is a capable and qualified teacher, should DH discipline troublemakers and evaluate children’s work as he sees fit, based on his experience and training? Or should he have to worry that every time Joey complains to Mommy about mean Mr. X who gave him an F, it might cost him his job? </p>
<p>I’m VERY proud of my husband. He gave up a career which many would envy for a job in which he felt he could truly make a difference in children’s lives. So I find the comments about how overpaid teachers are, what a cushy job they have, and so forth to be tremendously irritating. (Believe me, we’ve had some high-paid and cushy jobs in our time, but teaching isn’t one of them.) Although he loves his job, DH has advised our daughters not to go into teaching as a profession, because of the low pay and insecure future. </p>
<p>And I suspect that many of those complaining most vociferously about their children’s teachers couldn’t stand to spend six hours a day in a room with their OWN kid, let alone 25 or 30 others!</p>
<p>Yay for pamavision and her H! 
Nice post. I’m glad you didn’t stay away!!!</p>
<p>Yeah for pamavision (love the screen name) and austinmtmom for seeing the big picture and rising above pettiness.</p>
<p>(I know there are others on this thread, too, who have as well.)</p>
<p>I think every profession has a huge amount of variation in ability and competency. Some great, some okay, some suck. Every profession. Teachers are no different (why should they be?).</p>
<p>The big difference between teachers and other professionals however, are </p>
<p>a) these professionals directly impact our children (and we know how parents feel about their children) and</p>
<p>b) parents and kids can’t just go to a different teacher when the one they get is a dud. We all encounter professionals that don’t cut the mustard for us, but it’s not a big deal and we don’t have to vent to our friends or a message board. This is because we can do something about it: we can switch doctors, hire a new lawyer, get some other plumber to fix the last job. That isn’t something parents can do when their teachers are at the low end of competency.</p>
<p>I think teachers are unpaid, under resourced and under appreciated. I can’t imagine doing their job or nearly as good as most of them. But given that 80% of the teachers I’ve encountered DO seem to do a good job despite it all, the 20% bad teachers can’t blame it solely on the system. Maybe they just are… incompetent.</p>
<p>I don’t get why the really good teachers don’t want merit raises for the work they put in. But, there you have it. Soon, we will have threads which read “Where is the love for the doctors.”</p>