An Education in this day & age IS necessary… yet I’ve seen it so often around us…people who go to college… and still they struggle to find jobs that pay enough…15+ yrs later… still chipping away at their college loans…
With our 1st son… he wanted to be an Accountant… then changed course…Bummer…basically he has a worthless degree… he kept saying this to me… so one day I googled “worthless degrees”… and there it was >> Psychology at #2… worthless !!! Now I just agree with him… and there he is… $17,000 more to go…
What is he making …$12 an hour… Oh he’s doing OK…even has some savings…racking up the overtime …but he’s looking to get a job in shipping /receiving -it pays more!
2nd son … is taking Chemical Engineering (1st year) but his grades have slipped due to a bad Breakup… he will loose a $12,000 scholarship if he doesn’t get them back up … we can’t afford to carry this… (as we’ll have another son starting this year too)… so the dilemma is…
Should we just have him go to the lowest cost PA school in our state, Drop the Engineering…
Is a CHEMISTRY degree worth very much… I really don’t know… After 1st son’s mistakes… just feeling pretty lousy about prospects in this day & age.
Oh good grief. There is no such thing as a worthless degree from a reputable school. Full stop.
People are successful coming out of just about every single school and every single major.
I’m sorry your S is making only $12 an hour, but welcome to our new reality. On the other hand, my roommate is making much more than that and he too was a psych major.
Chemistry isn’t going to make or break your other S. It’s what he does with his time there- what skills he develops, jobs he has, internships he takes, etc- that will.
My sense is that Chemistry is a major that works better if you have a grad degree.
Do some investigations on FAFSA / NPC (net price calculator). With the brother in school, it’s possible that you will get FA help that offsets the scholarship loss.
We got one award letter for 3rd son that is DOUBLE what 2nd sons was last year for the same school… not sure if they just didn’t add their School grants yet (too early ?..that they gave 2nd son last year)… and 2nd son will loose that scholarship if he doesn’t get his grades up… so his price may be $7,500 PLUS $12,000 extra… we can’t do this… our family only makes $60,000 a year . with another 3 kids at home (& these 2 in college)…
Those Net calculators never helped me… last year we had 2 college award letters where the price was 3 times higher … only (1) college met “the need” making it more accurate… but this year it seems that same college is not offering the same Merit based aid (unless again… they just didn’t add these grants Yet -because it’s only February… I don’t know)… but definitely stressing over it…
And whether to take 2nd son out of this higher priced College… dropping the Engineering and going to a lower cost University (lowest in our state) that just offers Chemistry (no Engineering accreditation) …
Ok… finding an affordable college and finding a so-called “marketable” major are two completely different things.
Look, when I graduated undergrad a few years ago ('13), I was offered two pretty nice jobs- one from the state Senate where I had interned and one from the state library where I was working as a student employee. My degrees? Arts & Humanities and Anthropology. Pretty useless, right? Well, they didn’t seem to think so. I marketed myself very well and took every opportunity I could get. THAT is what opened doors for me- not the degree.
My spouse, on the other hand, works with kids making much less than $12 and has the exact same Arts & Humanities degree (minor in educational studies). He didn’t really work in undergrad and wasn’t career focused like I was. But that’s OK because his main job is to be a househusband.
Don’t look at sites which tell you that something is “useless” or “useful.” Statistics mean nothing to an individual.
I will say this again. It is not the DEGREE (save for a few specialized- mostly grad- degrees) but what you do with it.
ETA: And yes, I know what it’s like to be low income. I was a full pell student and have been on pretty much every welfare program you can name. So I understand not having a safety net during or after school and know the importance of trying to “break out” of that low income cycle.
A chemistry degree is not necessarily “worthless”, but the chemistry-specific job market is not all that great for job-seekers, and employers looking for chemical engineers prefer those with chemical engineering degrees. I.e. a chemistry graduate is likely to have to seek work in the general bachelor’s degree job market.
It does look like part of the problems you and your kids are facing are due to your state (Pennsylvania) being poor on college affordability for in-state public schools, with limited options for some majors (out of Pennsylvania public schools, only Penn State and Pittsburgh (which some Pennsylvania posters describe as being only semi-public, and which are expensive with poor financial aid even for Pennsylvania residents) offer chemical engineering).
Seems like when people write “worthless degrees/majors”, they are generally looking at majors with limited career paths specific to the major. Often, it seems that the most frustration is expressed by biology and chemistry graduates, who may have gone into college being told that “STEM majors have better job prospects” by parents, peers, counselors, etc., rather than humanities and social studies majors, most of whom know that they will have to seek major-agnostic college graduate jobs.
The actual career value of studying such majors is (one would hope, anyway) that the student learns and practices generalized thinking, reasoning, study, and research skills, and that the credential of a bachelor’s degree signals to employers that the graduate has learned and practiced such things, so that s/he will be a valuable employee able to adapt to whatever job problems go his/her way, even if not specifically related to his/her major.
However, it is true that the major-agnostic new college graduate job market can be quite competitive, and that about-to graduate students seeking jobs in that job market may need to search and apply widely. Of course, some aspects of course selection in college can affect one’s preparedness for major-agnostic college graduate jobs, even if the specific major is not a criterion (e.g. courses where one learns and practices writing and communication skills, reading and research, and statistical and logical reasoning). Also, sometimes, knowledge from a subject learned in college may become useful on the job, although it is not always predictable what may become useful when.
I remember your son switching everything at sort of the last minute last year to this school, but that he got a pretty good deal and almost everything paid for. It’s not that PA is giving a bad deal or that its schools cost too much. The student has to work to keep the scholarship. If he’s not doing well in engineering, can he (or does he want to) switch to chemistry at this school, to another major? Would he be better suited to a trade school where he’d get a hire paying job like a plumber or computer tech?
I think it is time to tell your son to get over the break up or take time off from school if that is really keeping him from making the grades. College is hard. Those who work hard get good jobs in their majors, especially chemical engineering but there is no easy way to get that job. But an 18 year old needs to get over a break up or needs to get some professional help if it is interfering with his life.
I don’t really understand what your 3rd son was offered. Is his award double or the price you are expected to pay double? Either way, you can’t base what he’ll get for merit on what the first son got if their grades and scores are different. You can look and see if the merit was included, if the state grants were included, if any federal pell was included. What does the award letter say?
If someone wants to work in the fields of psychology or chemistry, they’re going to need a master’s in that field. A bachelor’s in either one signals not that someone’s employable in that field, but rather that they’ve learned how to learn.
This is why, as both @romanigypsyeyes and @ucbalumnus have pointed out, lists of “useless degrees” are, in a bit of irony, useless lists.
re; Psych degree- lots of people in corporate roles (some extremely well paid) in human resources have psych degrees. Lots of people who work in market research have psych degrees. Lots of people who work in sales- not just low end, but also very expensive, long cycle time sales (people who sell capital goods products to large corporations; people who sell disability insurance to large corporations, etc.) have degrees in psych. Lots of people who work in financial services with high net worth individuals have degrees in psych. Lots of people in advertising, marketing, ad sales, pharmaceutical reps- all psych degrees/
Why am I telling you this? A kid who is locked into a $12 an hour job after getting a psych degree is suffering from one of three things (or all of these things)
1- geographically limited. There are going to be better opportunities for a psych major who is interested in a corporate career in Atlanta or Chicago or Charlotte- cities where there are huge companies with their headquarters, than there will be in Burlington Vermont or Key West Florida. So your kid is going to have to move.
2- Limited in outlook- assuming that someone with an undergrad degree in psychology is going to actually become a psychologist- which in America requires a doctorate. You can get a Master’s in counseling or a Master’s in Social Work (or get a mail order certificate as a life coach) but to be an actual Clinical Psychologist you need many more years of training and mentoring and supervision than a BA has. Yes- you can get a $12 an hour job working as a counselor at an addiction center but that doesn’t make you a psychologist.
3- Limited in experience- did your son work with career services at his college? Is your son working with them now? Did he do mock interviews, get a list of alumni with Psych degrees working in jobs which might interest him? Did he do internships at a local ad agency (even a very small one) to get experience in market research; does he work the professional association job boards to see who is hiring entry level account executives or entry level human resources analysts???
You need to peel away the issues of son number one which to me seem quite different from son number 2. Son number one needs to get out of dodge (wherever you live- whether that means bunking with a grandparent or aunt or cousin or college friend or the former youth pastor of your church- basically anyone you know living in a big city) and get himself a better job.
I work in corporate human resources and probably a third of my team has psych degrees. But you can’t graduate and head home hoping for the salary fairy to come find you. You have to go out there and pursue jobs which take advantage of your analytical and quantitative training (does he know SAS? Still a very hot skill. SPSS?). Does he program? HR is highly statistical at this point- someone with a social sciences degree who can work with data and analysis is highly employable.
Lots of companies (Weight Watchers? Anyone marketing smoking cessation devices? All the drug companies, all the drug retailers like Target, CVS, Walgreens) need to hire people to help them answer the question “how do we get people to change their behavior”. Psych majors ought to be first in line to help answer that question. He needs to get moving in his career!!!
No UG degree is worth the loans in my books, period. My opinion: “Attend where you can afford to attend without a loan.” Unfortunately, not all members of my family agree though and I feel strongly, that they will be sorry later on, very sorry. My opinion is based on talking to some MD parents. They made sure that their own kids who were inspired to follow them, attended both UG and medical school tuition free. One example is the family with 3 kids who did just that. Simply, parents experienced hardship paying off their own student loans and did not want the same for their kids. All 3 are MDs now and loan free after attending the local college on full tuition Merit and the local medical school where their MD dad was working and living at home to save more money. They could have gone to elite colleges and expensive medical schools, but the family decided that it was not worth it. This is just one example among few others that I am familiar with. I made sure that my own kid graduated from the medical school loan free. We did it the hard way, we do not belong in the exclusive club of the “MD parents”.
I’m on board with no loans. Unless you must, and then only the yearly student loan max.
The reality is, you must do very very well in these programs to get a good job after a BA. Or, you must get another degree. Or have connections t get a job.
A B average in psych just isn’t cutting it in the working world anymore, if it ever did!
There are lots of companies that don’t ask and don’t care about a kids GPA.
Is a kid with a B average in Psych getting a job in HR at DE Shaw or Bridgewater? No. Is that same kid a contender for a job in HR or sales at a hospitality company (all the big hotel chains and casinos and restaurant chains have management training programs)? Most of them don’t care about GPA. They WILL care about work experience- any kind of work experience- which shows stamina and ability to show up and deal with people and be responsible.
But presumably a B student can demonstrate all of that!
What is the net price after scholarship for this school? If he loses the scholarship, is it possible that he can transfer to a low cost school with chemical engineering that may not necessarily be in Pennsylvania, such as Youngstown State University, South Dakota School of Mines and Technology, University of South Alabama, North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, etc.?
My daughter is planning to be a Chemistry/BioChem major (and go to grad school) and I think it’s important to quote this part of the article as well: “Chemistry is sort of a funny degree. If you stop at the Bachelor’s level, the job market is so-so at best. At the Master’s level, there are LOTS of jobs, and at the doctoral level, things are quite a bit tighter but the upside potential is very strong for good people (like most of those graduating from R1 institutions). The Master’s degree is a sweet spot because the balance of training vs. market salary is right where industry is most happy.” So it’s not as dire as it might otherwise seem.
Ok, last year son 2 was faced with going to Pitt Greensburg at $16,000 a year and the possibility of transferring to Pitt main after one year if GPA was 3.5 (and even higher cost there) or going to Geneva, which has ABET accredited engineering and is a private Christian college. The school offered $10,000 merit and need based grants in addition to federal and state aid. The cost was $8,000 there I think. One other school, a state school Slippery Rock was in commuting distance and would cost about the same as Geneva (because only state grant and Pell was available then in August when he applied there, no Perkins, SEOG, work study like in Geneva’s package).
Several posters, including me, advised for son 2 to take the best offer at Geneva which offered ABET accredited engineering, marching band.
Now son 2 might be losing the $10k merit. The good part is that the spring semester is not over yet, he could still manage to turn things around. Also Geneva is only about 30 minutes away, so possibly he could commute there, saving $10,000 for room and board.
But the important question is, what does son 2 want to do? Does he want to continue with chemical engineering? Would he enjoy something else? Does he want to stay at the school?
I don’t think a school in Ohio at OOS rates would be more affordable than $18,000 at Geneva (without scholarship, or $8,000 if commuting). Would he only lose $10k scholarship or the need based Geneva grants as well?
Maybe if he wants to stay at Geneva both brothers could get an apartment close to school or he could commute.
Agree that turning around the current semester needs to be job 1. If he gets distracted coming up with plan’s B and C, the plan A that’s right in front of him (don’t lose the scholarship) will go by the wayside.
Any value in sitting down with him to sketch out the rest of the semester? And has he met with each of his professor’s to find out what resources they can offer-review sessions, a TA to go over the stuff that he hasn’t quite gotten yet, a tutor, the college’s learning center???
@ClarinetDad16, son 1’s school wasn’t overpriced. He got everything paid for except his apartment, hence the $20,000 loan in 4 years. I don’t think this is too much debt. Yes, accounting might have been better if he had wanted that.
But like others said you can get a good job with a psych degree. Might have to look further from home.
Might not be directly related to psychology.
Now his brothers will have to use the resources they have to get an education that will provide a good career for them.
They are luckier than some to have several schools that are in commuting distance and can be affordable with aid and direct loans.