@ClarinetDad16 on the flip side of that argument being so close to NYC and Philly is why NJ students leave the state and attend schools in both cities. There are so many schools in both cities to choose from that are comparable, if not superior to the majority of NJ schools. And they’re usually not any more expensive if students get merit aid.
However, I would also add that many NJ students decide to stay because they can commute since the state is so small. That’s an incentive because without room and board, you’re saving a bundle. But that causes the campuses to clear out on the weekends which is usually a big complaint I hear…the campus is dead on the weekends.
@blossom I’d also like to add that just a few pages ago (post #131 on page 9 to be exact), you stated that employers like “rigorous academics”, and that they “don’t care about the beach”. As I’ve stated before, that comment alone was more elitist than anything I’ve said on this entire thread. You already implied that my school was academically mediocre (when it’s on equal footing with your own home state flagship), so I guess you answered your own question on post #164.
@ClarinetDad16 thank you. This constant bombardment against me is ridiculous and totally hypocritical.
Also mentioning Seton Hall again…one of my good (in-state) friends here at school applied there and got in with no qualms (and a scholarship). He turned it down because he felt they weren’t up to his standards academically. Again, NOT putting that school down, just providing an anecdote…
Employers like rigorous academics. That’s not elitist- that’s reality. How those rigorous academics get measured CAN become elitist- like saying that everyone who graduates from Michigan State is a dummy vs. U Michigan, where all the geniuses in Michigan go. That’s false (and demonstrably so) since there ARE dumb kids at U Michigan (not a lot, but some) AND geniuses at Michigan State.
The type of “rigor” a student majoring in Early Childhood needs is going to be different (and measured differently) than the type of rigor a pre-med needs. That’s also reality, and not elitist. A kid acing organic chemistry may- in fact- not be “qualified” to teach early ed if he or she hasn’t taken the right classes on child development. That notwithstanding- the typical early childhood teacher is likely to score lower on standardized tests measuring math and analytical reasoning vs. a first year medical student.
It’s not elitist to say that in general it’s “easier” to get a certificate to become an ultrasound technician than to become a radiologist.
I’m glad you have a friend who turned down Seton Hall because it wasn’t up to his standards and I’m glad he found a college that meets his needs.
I guess he compared the admitted student stats with some of the other unis he got into and found that it really was no better (or worse) than UNC Charlotte or even his local U (UNC Greensboro)
That’s really not a legitimate way to evaluate a university. Most public and Catholic universities believe they have a mission to educate a wide range of students, not just a tiny sliver of the most intelligent and most affluent. (And, to be honest, there aren’t nearly enough of the most intelligent and the most affluent to fill all the university classrooms in America.) The fact that a university provides valuable education to people with, say, 500s on the SATs does not mean that the university is incapable of providing high-quality, challenging education to people with 700s or 800 on the same tests. The trick is to give everyone what they need, and there are a lot of universities that do a very effective job of it.
What educating a broad range of students does mean is that the mere fact that one has graduated from Seton Hall does not communicate as much information about one’s intelligence and intellectual capability as would be the case if one had graduated from Harvard, or Berkeley. If you are a super-achieving student from Seton Hall, you have to find other ways to show that quickly to potential employers, etc., than just sticking your degree on your resume. But that’s not a case of Seton Hall offering inferior education. I’ll bet you can get an incredible education at Seton Hall if you do a little investigation and learn what the best teachers there want to teach you.
@ClarinetDad16 well that seems unnecessary due to the fact that one does not choose a school based on all nine of your criteria. You missed my point which was the numerous colleges and universities in the metropolitan area allow students in said area to go somewhere other than a state school for the same or lower cost. Hope that clarifies things.
So @veehee let’s agree there isn’t another large top 100 national university in New York State within 50 miles of the city with a real campus, in a big time sports conference and has fraternities besides Rutgers.
There are lots of schools. But only Rutgers meets this basic criteria many students desire who don’t want to be hundreds of miles from home.
Where do companies find these candidates? Big State Schools With One-Stop Shopping for Graduates With Necessary Skills. In a research study WSJ published most of the top ranked schools by recruiters were public with Penn State and a Texas A&M on top, with Rutgers in the top 25.
Employers know where to look based on what they want. DE Shaw isn’t hiring math majors from the same colleges as your local school board looking to bolster K-3 math education. And that’s fine- organizations have hiring strategies and set targets both for new hires and retention of previous hires.
My company recruits at some flagship public U’s and not at others. When I was hiring actuaries we loved U Texas at Austin and Georgia Tech; when I was hiring aerospace engineers we loved MIT and Cal Tech (of course among others). I think Rutgers is a terrific place as I’ve said upthread and this discussion seems weird to me. I think judging “academic rigor” of an entire institution based on what a friend liked or didn’t like is an absurd way to pick a college.
@ClarinetDad16 while it may be true technically that Rutgers is the only regional school which fulfills all your criteria, my point was with so many choices, NJ students choose other schools in the area. While the other options don’t tick off all your criteria, most students don’t need all those things. Especially Big 10. I would hardly say students choose Rutgers because of their football team.
I do know many of my D’s friends are happy at Rutgers. It’s not that it’s a bad choice. In many ways, it’s a great choice. It’s just not the only choice. In states like Texas or Utah, there’s far fewer choices nearby, so state schools are where the kids choose to go.
I agree with @veehee Stick a pin in the middle of the map of NJ and within a 2-3 hour drive you will find hundreds of colleges and universities. Delaware, Maryland, and parts of PA, Connecticut, New York are an easy drive. Expand your range to a 5 hour drive and add DC, VA, New England, upstate NY, etc.
Try the same exercise in the Dakotas, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico and what’s in range? Not a whole lot beyond in-state public options.
Rutgers has strong academics and given that the NJ high schools are generally good, the students are likely to be well prepared. The Honors College is reputable. The proximity to jobs and internships is exceptional. But given that there are so many nearby alternatives that might cost the same or less depending on the student and merit/need qualifications, it only makes sense that NJ students would look elsewhere.
I ended up at Rutgers in the 80s because it was essentially free to attend and I got into the Honors Program. My parents did not know much about how the college search process worked and few from my HS went to college. Going out of state was rare, unless you got an athletic scholarship. My guidance counselor did not provide much guidance.
Despite the fact that New Brunswick was then a prime example of urban blight and decay, I enjoyed my experience. I only had to bus to class for one or two courses over my four years. My classmates were bright and engaged. Professors were superb. I made lifelong friends. Went to NY, Philly, and the shore frequently. Major musical acts came through the area. My parents lived less than 30 minutes away but they never “dropped by” spontaneously. I almost never saw anybody from my high school and my closest friends included people from other parts of NJ, neighboring states, the south, and Europe. I graduated debt free and had my pick of fully funded graduate programs.
If I cared about football, I might have made a different choice.
