Thanks @Momof3DDs - as I said many pages ago - there are tons of students in NJ (most densely populated state) and there are just not enough places for them. The others have to go somewhere (especially since the students have some of the best stats in the country). Even if NJ had only top 10 colleges and filled them only with NJ students - there would be thousands of students still to educate!
I will finally admit I had a better academic experience at Rutgers (UG) than Michigan (grad). At Rutgers, my professors generally seemed to care about students, once I moved beyond the large lecture classes. True, I had quite a few TAs but they were also usually well-prepared and good teachers. At Michigan, being grad school, classes were smaller so we had more contact with professors but, ironically, they didn’t seem particularly interested in the students. Living in Ann Arbor was amazing and it beats New Brunswick any day.
Seton Hall now gives NJ residents an award that brings it down to the price of Rutgers.
No one has talked about Montclair, which I’ve heard is good for education and social service type professions, or Ramapo. Are they really that bad?
I’d like to get my kids out of NJ but when I think about travel expenses and the additional health insurance costs, I wonder if NJ might still be cheapest. But with acceptance rates at NJ publics, can any really be considered safeties, especaiily when there are limits in how many students are accepted in each major?
montclair has a new partnership with sony and is poised to do some really interesting things…
Stevens is good, yes (somewhere between 3.5 and 4 stars). Callous mistake on my part. Drew is decent (3 stars).
However, Seton Hall is “a very strong academic Catholic university”? Any stats to back that up? Last I checked their most recent incoming freshman stats and grad rates didn’t even show up on Big Future College Board. From my perspective, basketball is all they have. 3 stars out of 5 in my book.
Montclair is considered decent within the state of NJ but is still mainly a commuter school and is academically mediocre overall (2.5 stars). I know someone at my school who transferred here from Montclair this year (a current sophomore) and she hated it there. Ramapo is 3 stars; decent and rising. Same with Rutgers Newark, Stockton (kinda rising), Monmouth (though very expensive due to it being private). Rider is the same as the others but not necessarily rising in reputation or standards.
Lbad- you are discussing institutions of higher learning, not rating a restaurant on Yelp. I am curious as to what criteria you use in describing “rising in reputation or standards”. There are some departments at Stevens which are top notch (I don’t know how many stars you would assign them) and some that are merely average. So why should a kid interested in one of the top departments at Stevens abide by your rating system?
And I am curious as to how you decide something is academically mediocre overall. Presumably because YOU wouldn’t go there. I imagine that you would describe someone as an elitist jerk if they consider YOUR college academically mediocre overall, even if you personally are majoring in one of the departments which are considered strong and rigorous.
Right?
Seton Hall has direct entry nursing and PA programs, which can be competitive to get into. So maybe that’s one reason for the draw?
@LBad96 I think we get that you are in love with your school in NC. What I don’t get is how you hold the illusion that the numbers there are so fantastic.
UNCW SAT 1192(old M+CR) ACT 25 composite Weighted GPA 4.1
Seton Hall SAT 1150 old - 1220 new ACT 25 Unwaited GPA 3.5
Where’s your difference?
If people listened to you they would think that graduates of NJ schools could only get jobs at McDonalds with their degree.
Another thing about NJ schools is that most participate in the EOP - Educational Opportunity Program. This is for students who have educationally and economically disadvantaged backgrounds. It is a great program for students who might not otherwise be accepted in college (so their “stats” would be on the lower end.) I know Rutgers NB takes between 550 and 650 new students per year. Wonder how they might bring down the almighty stats that drive “ratings.”
@LBad96 has a very strong bias against NJ schools and in favor of his own regional school in NC, which really weakens his arguments. And I and many others have commented on this before. UNCW is a decent school, but not academically stronger than Rutgers and other schools in NJ. I do, however, get that many NJ students want out of the state and that Rutgers isn’t appealing for certain reasons. That is no different than other states. My own kiddo wants out of Texas if possible and her in-state options are excellent. But the constant comparison and putting down good NJ schools because he likes his regional NC school is really tiresome.
I am from CA and there is definitely a problem with the public options here.
The UC’s are HUGE as well as hugely over-rated.
My son and nephew attended Berkeley-some classes had 700+ students/attendance not required. Super competitive, grade obsessed environment and horrendous dorms.This year the local paper reported that some first years were being housed on another school’s campus and being bussed across the bay to San Francisco office buildings for class!
My daughter was accepted at UCLA as a Regents’ Scholar and they offered her $2000 for that plus $200/yr in need based aid. She attends Vanderbilt with merit and need based aid bringing the net price down to $10,000 or one-third the price of UCLA.
My close friend’s daughter attends UCSB and HATES it because of the general immaturity/beach/party!!! culture that is unavoidable.
The state U’s are over crowded, impacted in most marketable majors, and most students need five years or more because they can not get their required classes. I heard that Cal Poly SLO has a 6% acceptance rate for engineering.
To be honest rankings of the UC’s is largely based on the quality of their graduate programs.
Applications from out of state (and country) are increasing because of the rankings-and the full pay is tempting to the schools who are always struggling-probably because of the exorbitant administrative costs.
Many kids here look out of state because it is a better college experience as well as more affordable.
We have a good friend whose kids both chose Ole Miss --it costs half as much as a UC with generous merit and the family LOVES it. Their kids are very smart and were accepted at UC’s and they also have plenty of money for college.
^^ I agree with what @dragonmom3 has just posted. We are in-state for UC and yet many of the kids we know have chosen to go to privates or even OOS publics over UCs. Yes, a very few of them were not competitive for top UCs, but most were and still chose to leave. The impacted majors, difficulty in graduating in 4 years (unless you take courses every single summer), and huge class sizes have all contributed to this. My D and plenty of others chose to go to small LACs, but we also know quite a few kids at Ivies, UMich, and other top colleges and universities. It’s not because they “couldn’t get in” to a UC.
I can only add that the majority of kids accepted to the UCs from my daughter’s high school choose to attend other schools for all the reasons listed above by @dragonmom3 . The impacted majors is one of the reasons most frequently cited.
Some of the CSUs have four year graduation pledge programs. It seems that few students sign up for them or fulfill the requirements, since those CSU’s four year graduation rates are still low. Examples:
https://www.cpp.edu/~academic-programs/graduation-pledge/
https://www.csusb.edu/advising/programs/four-year-graduation-pledge
http://www.csub.edu/academicprograms/Undergraduate%20Studies/Four-Year%20Degree%20Pledge/
http://www.fresnostate.edu/mapp/documents/apm/202.pdf
I agree with dragonmom3, that many of the kids are looking OOS because in many cases it is at least as affordable if not more so and they generally find it to be a better college experience. I don’t think the thread was intended to be an assault on NJ schools but in sharing views as to why NJ loses more students to OOS alternatives, it unfortunately went in that direction. I really believe it has far less to do with the fact that there are fewer spaces than students than the fact that for either an equivalent or even better price, there are options that are much more appealing to some h.s. students including distance and diversity from their h.s. experience, overall college experience and social life, brand and reputation, and in some cases, academics. It’s something that NJ has been scrutinizing but has to get a handle on if they want it to change:
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/16/02/17/steep-cost-of-nj-s-public-colleges-works-against-students-hurts-state/
UCs and CSUs are quite different in terms of their missions and positioning. The problems at UCs as mentioned by @dragonmom3 cannot be adequately addressed by some CSUs’ graduation pledge.
IMHO, the fundamental problem at UCs is simply the lack of funding. All the problems identified by @dragonmom3 are evidence of it.
Haven’t mentioned my own school in a bit. Never said it was a Chapel Hill or a UMich, just said the experience was better. I compared and contrasted multiple schools in NJ and NC, both academically and otherwise. No assaults, just honest facts as to why NJers go out of state. There are plenty of colleges and universities all across the country, even in NC, that I would never attend even if they are considered to be academically stronger. I’m not offended if people wouldn’t want to go to my school, I may ask them to articulate why if necessary but I generally couldn’t care less because no school is for everyone. So everyone can chill with the petty personal attacks that weakens your own arguments.
I said Stevens is a good school. Which it is, a very good one. But one has to realize that its Payscale numbers are inflated by the fact that it is an engineering-focused school.
And in response to the other schools…does no one see average GPAs and test scores anymore? Lol. You’re free to make your own judgment as you wish. Explaining my star ratings would be a whole different topic, so let’s not go there lol.
We can argue about this all day, but I’m a busy man. You all have your fun.
Payscale is a terrible source for making decisions about college. However- Stevens numbers are not “inflated” because it’s an engineering focused school- that’s just a market place reality that engineers make more money (on average, coming out of undergrad) than gym teachers.
I pose this question. Where would you fit the 29,100 NJ students? It’s not as if they have trouble filling the seats…
What I wonder is exactly why those of you who aren’t from NJ are so bothered/offended by what I’m saying? I didn’t even say my own school was better than Rutgers; I said it was no worse, as in about equal. HUGE difference. Love always having words put in my mouth and then twisted to make myself sound much more elitist than I really am. rolls eyes
@MomOf3DDs the counter-question I pose is this: are the NJ schools filling the seats with top or even high quality NJ students? The stats say, “no, not necessarily”. Most NJ students go OOS, and it’s mostly NOT due to a lack of seats or because they couldn’t achieve admission. That is not disparaging ANY school, that is a fact. I know some will still find a way to make it sound worse than it is.
To the people who question why someone would want to attend school in NJ - two reasons for schools that check one of these boxes:
- near Manhattan
- near Philadelphia
Confused that when poster after poster sticks a dagger into NJ it is ok. But if a particular poster FROM NJ adds his two cents people pile on him?