Who pays? How have you transitioned who pays for things with your adult children?

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101

@deb922 - Gosh. I’m sorry. Our ds doesn’t have a SO, but he is 2,500 miles away from us, so I do understand the challenges of distance and the reality of infrequent visits.

By default the proximity makes things less, “fair” from the get-go because they live so much closer to the boyfriend’s parents. It’s definitely a sticky situation because you are aware she is being pressured by them, so YOU don’t want to pile on and pressure her as well. Obviously, idk the situation, but based on my experience, I wouldn’t expect the boyfriend to stand up to his parents. It certainly wasn’t he case with my dh and his father. Not about vacations because we didn’t vacation with them, but just in general. He had learned to survive by not rocking the boat. Those habits are hard to break.

I know other parents who expect their children and grandchildren to gather at the beach every summer for at least at a week. I have no idea what our future holds regarding vacations with ds and any SO, but I would NEVER expect that to be an every year occurrence. Maybe something every five years??

I think limited vacation time is one of the big reasons that families tend to be territorial about holidays. It never occurred to me because our ds is an only, but a family friend explained that with multiple children, holidays are what everyone clamors for because it is when all the adult children are all off AT THE SAME TIME. And everyone wants their whole family together at the holidays. That is much harder to have happen for a random vacation.

My friends who I mentioned in my original post spend a LOT of time with their two adult children. They even all live in the same neighborhood! We have other friends who spend what I think is an unusual amount of time with their adult children as well. I don’t mean to be judge-y - it’s just outside my norm.

I have no expectations that we will live near ds in the future. I have told him that I hope we get to see him twice a year under normal (non-pandemic) circumstances.

102

In my experience it’s pretty normal to vacation with your adult children. I know my sister does with her two who are 33 and 28 and with their significant others too. My sister and her husband flew from the east coast out to California to meet up with their son’s fiance’s family and they all went to Tahoe together.

We still vacation with MIL, too, and my parents always got two weeks at the beach every summer and invited us all for whatever amount of time we could spend. Those are some of my most precious memories. After my FIL died early (just 63) they also invited my MIL so she could spend time with her youngest grandbaby (my oldest). Then when my dad’s health declined and the whole gang couldn’t go to the beach MIL went with me and my husband and our 2 yr old. It was pretty bittersweet, but I still remember it fondly.

We just got back from a short visit with MIL in the mountains. I have been sorting through old photos and saw pix of a trip my sister and her family took with my mom and aunt.

All that to say it’s really not uncommon at all for adult children to vacation with their parents and seems like a nice gesture of the boyfriend’s family to invite your dd and her boyfriend (their son) to the beach. It would be really weird and rude if my parents had gotten the annual 2 weeks at the beach (always in the same beach house) and NOT invited us. That would have been a huge snub.

I think your DD just needs to say, “I wish I had time to do it all, but I haven’t built up enough vacation time yet. I haven’t seen my parents in ages and we’re planning on seeing them in July”, or whatever. And I would expect the boyfriend to back her up. It is his role to stand up to his parents. Man up! No excuse for him to let her do all the dirty work dealing with his family.

I think it is probably really new to all of you all navigating these situations. The boyfriend’s parents are probably just extending all the normal invitations they have always extended and the young couple hasn’t yet learned how to juggle seeing both sets of parents and you are not used to her being so far away plus so close to his parents. I imagine it would seem more fair if they were 800 miles away too.

I would just express to her again that you would really love to see them both and hope they will make time to come see all of you and if it works out maybe you could all meet up where they are or somewhere in the middle.

Hope you can see them soon!

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103

I have spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about this. Partly because of my own situation but mostly because of a bff’s situation. She is the mother of a son and is getting the short stick. Really short stick. Not only are the couple expected to spend more time with the DIL’s parents but, when the kids relocated on the opposite coasts, the DIL’s parents bought their fourth home, in the same city as the kids. It’s a LOT.

I have been coaching my bff on how to handle it and am happy to report that there has been movement. This summer, while the DIL’s extended family is vacationing in their third home, this one at a popular resort in the West, my bff has been invited for the first time. I am hoping that after four years of marriage the other MIL is loosening her grip a bit.

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104

Deb, this is a conversation to have with your daughter. Let her know you would like to see them when possible. I’m sure you have already done so. But maybe she doesn’t understand that you really would like to get to know this guy a little more.

This year shouldn’t be your acid test year!

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105

Just curious, what advice did you give to your BFF? I’m glad that she is able to see them and hope the same for deb922.

106

I’ve written this on these boards before and received a lot of, “Who says so??/Why does it have to be this way??”, but I’m gonna stick my neck out and write it again, “A daughter’s a daughter all her life, but a son’s a son, ‘til he takes a wife.”

I get it. I have only one son, but I plan to set my expectations low in terms of “fairness.” I don’t expect things to be, “fair.”

Please don’t flame me for how wrong I am. I do understand that MANY factors play into the closeness and frequency of visits to parents and in-laws. Distance is certainly high among them as @deb922 has experienced with her daughter. But my personal observations have been that the general rule is that daughters stay closer to their family of origin than sons do. I acknowledge there are exceptions.

My married life has been one of those exceptions, as I have never personally dealt with any of this because my parents died when I was 24 and before I was married. My dh’s parents have never had to share.

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107

I appreciate you writing that!
And, I’m very sorry you lost both your parents at such a young age. Hugs many times over to you!

I have two sons. If I’m honest with myself, I’ve always just assumed that I’ll be playing second fiddle to the inlaws. I think I’m sensitive to the fact that the inlaw relationship is so ripe with complications that I will go with the flow and try not to make decisions (across the board -holidays, bdays, vacations, etc) any harder Bc that can impact my S’s well being, etc. I say this now, but clearly I may be completely off my rocker and reality will prove me completely wrong, but…I tend to not be a traditionalist. Case in point, we got married on a day of the week, NOT a Saturday. And I have no qualms about celebrating with others after the “actual” date of things (like a belated holiday gathering). I’ve seen friends be SO exhausted trying to please both sides of families that they don’t enjoy the celebration or holiday if they are just trying to make people happy but run ragged in the process. I don’t want that for my kids.

Again, we shall see if I maintain this perspective and attitude. Fingers crossed! :grin:

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108

I agree - it’s all hypothetical for me now, but I hope I can graciously live out the assumption that I am going to be second fiddle. But, you are right - who knows?!

As far as non-traditionalist, I’d be happy to be the crazy mil/grandmother who puts up her Christmas tree in July!

Thanks for the virtual hugs, too.

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109

The comments about families staying together have made me appreciate how lucky I am as an introvert to be in a family full of introverts! Downtime is expected between each activity, after meals, or whenever. People routinely disappear for a couple hours.

As far as sharing time, I had a similar situation to @deb922 (although I would never allow things to get so out of balance between the two families😥). When we first started having kids, my parents were very worried that we would not see them as much as my in-laws due to distance and other factors (in-laws wanted to take us on very nice vacations, etc).

I wish my mom had just talked to me openly about her fears. She needed reassurance from me that of course I wanted to stay close and wanted my kids to be close to them and would absolutely prioritize time with them. But my mom didn’t communicate her needs, and instead, her feelings snuck out in all kinds of passive aggressive ways and guilt trips, which caused big problems between everyone. Thank goodness we finally went to counseling together and got to the bottom of the situation and came to a better understanding. It also resulted in a holiday sharing agreement which has worked for 20 years! Although, I still get guilt trips sometimes.

I wish my mom would say, “I miss you so much! But I totally understand all the pressures on you, and I don’t want to add to that. How could we see each other in a way that would be the most fun and relaxing for you?” If my mom said that, I would tell her that best for me is if they come to us, and stay with us Thursday-Monday of a specific week. Also, please be accepting of take-out and have low expectations for me as a hostess! (Of course I’m not brave enough to be that honest😄).

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110

I can relate! My in-laws have a much different idea of privacy than I do!

111

Yes! I hate it when there is only 1 bathroom, and that is always the case when we stay with in-laws. And mattresses that haven’t been replaced in a very long time. Ugh. Ugh. And this is after a long drive to get there. This is supposed to be a vacation? At our ages?

I am currently dreading a discussion that’s soon to be had here, as H wants to see his family. That will eat up his vacation time. We will of course be expected to stay with his family. And they have no AC. There is so much else in that general area that I’d rather see. But it’s been a long time since we’ve visited (pandemic), there have been health issues with the in-laws, so I think it’s going to have to happen. I may not go, though.

112

I promise I have had this exact conversation with my kid! We’ve gone and eaten take out and would never make any comments about housekeeping.

Maybe I’m feeling sorry for myself and all that I’ve missed this past year.

It’s been a really tough year. Distance is difficult during the best of times. It’s excruciating during this past year.

I have the most wonderful daughter in law. She’s an only, her father has dementia. Her mom is the sole caregiver. When my son and dil made the decision not to get together for Christmas, I was more upset for her mom than I was for myself. They are the ones who need support. But my son and dil have never made me feel that I am unimportant.

But I guess I see my daughter’s boyfriend’s parents in a different light. Their actions make me wonder if it will always be on their terms. That’s all.

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113

800 miles makes it difficult to get together, especially during this time.
I live 30 min away from D1 & H via subway, so I could be at their place at the drop of hat whenever they want me to spend time with their new baby. Whereas D1’s in-laws live 2+ hours away and it is usually involves a lot of planing. D1 has made an effort to have his parents travel down to see them once a month. They usually stay 3-4 days. They are visiting the in-laws and grandparents on July 4th. I get many short visits and the in-laws get fewer/longer visits.
@deb922 - sounds like your D and SO are busy and not have many vacation days, why not make a trip out to see them and stay at a hotel. Even if they are working, they could have dinners with you.

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114

S graduates this weekend and will be moving to his job in July. Day to day living will be all him; rent, car, insurance, cell phone, etc. When we visit, I can’t imagine not treating for dinner and stuff like that but who knows. The day S offers to treat will be a big deal to me; dinner, drinks, golf, whatever.

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115

In the past, we treated - without question. We’d meet for a movie and a restaurant with any who wanted to come. As the family grows, it’s become more and more expensive: three adult children with spouses and two grandchildren. It’s funny because a friend and I just talked about this. Her family is renting a large beach house this summer and she planned to pay. Her husband drew the line, pointing out that each of their children and spouses worked and now make significantly more than they do. He said it’s time to reconsider.

One thing we did a few time for fun. Each person (not couple) dropped a credit card in a napkin and the waiter drew one. That person treated everyone that day. Any who didn’t want to chance paying a larger amount - for whatever reason - didn’t throw a card in the mix and just paid separately for their dinner. It was a no pressure deal. If you didn’t want to play, then you didn’t (and it lowered the cost for the “winner.”)

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116

In my area, the norm is for families to all go together to a Carolina beach (usually Myrtle) for the week. The family just gets bigger as spouses, grandchildren are added. They cram more people into a condo, or get a bigger place. Every single year. Same place, same week even. Dropping out of the tradition is a BIG deal.

We did that with the in-laws for awhile. We (and my SIL’s family) would each pay, but the in-laws covered more than their share. Then, we insisted to at least get our own place and we paid for that obviously. And later, we just started doing our own thing elsewhere.

My family never went on regular vacations. We just visited my grandparents. We went on two vacations - each a month long where we toured most of the country living in a van/motel 6/super 8s eating chicken pate sandwiches. Anyhow, it made coordinating vacations much easier! But in the last 10 years, my parents have taken us on three 3 week european trips. They paid for everything. I am so very very grateful. We would have never been able to afford it, and it helped me to plan for more (affordable) interesting trips of our own.

I am now in the transition of my kids becoming independent. This is older S’ first year. He and GF are coming with us. I plan to pay for everything, but he insisted on paying for the plane fare. At Thanksgiving, he’s going on a trip with his GF’s family. That will be the first time we aren’t together for the holidays! I knew it was coming, and I don’t think I’ll mind. (Actually, I hate Thanksgiving, so if there’s one to miss, at least it’s that!) I’m sure it will take some getting used to though. H will have a harder time than me honestly. I make my own traditions that often don’t fit the norm.

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117

I will say that we will try “bribing” D to come on vacation with us as long as possible while she’s single but once there is a significant other in the mix, we’ll have to be honest and open about not having them feel pressured. It will definitely be a dance. I really really don’t want to be deb922’s daughter’s bf’s parents.

I will also admit that we will be very sad at some point when D has to switch off holidays. She is our only and we both come from small families. It will mean being alone for the holidays if she is not with us. I can see trying to actively reimagine things so that we are off skiing or traveling during holiday time on “off years”.

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118

This has turned into an interesting discussion. I want to include my kids as much as possible, but I’m fine with them making their own plans or paying their own ways too. I will invite, but not expect.

My oldest is 20 and not going to college, working at Starbucks instead so has odd days off that fluctuate. We just went 3 hrs away last weekend to see grandma in the mountains and weren’t sure if the 20 yr old could or wanted to make it because Saturday was a workday, but Sunday was a day off. Ended up my husband drove up on Sat morning with the 17 yr old and I stayed and drove up that evening with the 20 yr old. It was a bit of a whirlwind visit as we all came home the next day but we all enjoyed it and got to hug grandma (everybody is vaxxed).

We have always been pretty even-handed about visiting with both my in-laws and my parents when they were alive. We often would have Thanksgiving on Friday with the in-laws or an extended family get together on Dec 26th. Sometimes we would visit one set for Thanksgiving and the other set for Christmas. I would expect my kids to do the same. I am not real hung up on holidays, though, so if they want to do something else that will be fine.

We do usually take a week at the beach every summer and we will probably continue to do that and invite them and their significant others. We don’t usually do BIG vacations that involve multiple weeks and flying somewhere every year, but when we do we will probably invite them on some of those, but expect that work schedules may get in the way.

For the beach vacations I would anticipate that we would continue to pay for the rental house for quite awhile and the kids would drive themselves down and pay for their own gas. I don’t think they would spring for a big extended family meal, but if it was just a few of us I could see that might happen, or maybe they would want to split the check more likely.

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My in laws very much pressured us to spend time with them, especially holidays or anything festive-Super Bowl, etc. They loved to entertain and expected us to always be there. One year, early on, they even got my parents at their home for both Christmas Eve/Day. MIL really felt like she was the winner, I don’t know why, it wasn’t a contest. My mother, bless her soul, never tried to compete with that, she let MIL have every holiday ‘victory’ that she wanted. My mother got us all the time the rest of the year, her attitude was such a blessing.

DH & I strongly of are the camp of putting no pressure on the kids to choose us, a couple of years with have told the kids to go spend the holidays with the faraway in laws and created our own celebration on a different day. It’s just not worth it to us to have anyone feel pressured, we hated that.

@deb922, I’m sorry the situation has you feeling this way, I can see the combination of residency/fellowship intense hours means no one saw much of this guy for however long he’s been on that path. That parents might be clueless or they might be high pressure, the kids might be resenting the pressure or might just not have thought about it all. If he is just finishing fellowship next month, they’ve never had time to live a real life and know what freedoms they will have. So much is situationally dependent, but I’d try no pressure, but just the realistic conversation with DD that you’re so glad he will have more freedom and you hope you’ll have the opportunity to enjoy more time with them in the future!

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120

Neither my mom nor my MIL ever visited our house. My mom came up to help out after S1 was born, but we were renting a townhouse at the time and the stairs were too much. Did not come up after S2 was born.

The expectation in both our families was that we’d stay over at our parents. With H’s parents, this meant one brief overnight visit and we either brought food or H & I (and later, the kids) would go out to a diner late in the evening. The kids were never alone with those grandparents. Lots of estrangement on that side from long before I arrived on the scene, so I went along with whatever H needed to do to get through it.

My parents were insulted when we decided to stay at a hotel. There was not enough room for everyone (because all my sibs and families would come in at the same time – 18-20 people!). The house was a disaster, the mattresses were horrible, people were on cots and sofas, my mom was bedridden by that point and her hospital bed was in the living room (so privacy for her was non-existent), and the *$#& TV was always on. We needed someplace to decompress, and a hotel gave H the option to stay there and nap/read while I visited w/the sibs and nieblings.

We haven’t had any family vacations with our parents, adult children/sibs and grandkids. Not economically feasible for them.

I can’t envision asking my sons and future families to pack up and schlep to a third location for a vacation, esp when vacation time is limited and often spent as overflow sick leave/child care. Us going out to see them, however, is another story. Would be delighted to serve as extra hands to keep kids occupied and give parents a break.

If we go to CA to see S1, we stay in a hotel – by mutual preference. S1 is good about drawing reasonable boundaries. I find it a little jarring, mainly because I tend not to set boundaries in the first place (which is not a good thing). H and S1 both need time to recharge, so they are fine with that arrangement. S will take us out for dinner at least once and pay for an activity or two while we visit.

S2 doesn’t make much $ and is 5,000 miles away. When we get to see him, he cooks for us (and is terrific at it). He also takes us on tours and navigates the local languages.

The four of us did a family trip in 2019 and H asked S1 to pay 1/3. I remonstrated with H about it, but lost. (I don’t want S1 to feel he has to pay to see us, and then decide it’s not worth it…) But S1 said, “Mom, I can afford it.”

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