Who should pay?

Parents Social Lounge
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<p>My husband's son will be 21 in the fall. He'll also be a junior in college, well on his way to a prestigious engineering degree. He likely will pull down $60-70,000 his first year out of school.</p>

<p>My husband, who is in his early 50s, lost his job a little over a year ago. His chances of finding another job in his field were slim to none. He has little formal education, but is a smart, hard-working guy, and he got into a good training program at our local community college. In a year and a half or so, he'll probably be able to get a decent job with modest upside potential. It will pay around $35,000 a year to start. </p>

<p>His son and his ex are putting the squeeze on my husband to finance far more of the kid's education than he (we) can afford. If things continue on their current path, it is likely that my husband will be about $20,000 in debt when he gets his new $35,000-a-year job. He, his ex, and his son are trying to work it so that the boy will have zero debt when he gets his new $60,000-a-year job. </p>

<p>My husband and his ex have no formal agreement about who pays for what in their son's education, so it's all what the 3 of them negotiate. As things stand now, my husband is effectively assuming debt so the kid can graduate debt-free. He's said that, if the kid has to borrow money to finish school, he'll help him pay it back. Sure--on $35,000 a year, with $20,000 of debt hanging over our heads. </p>

<p>I am fuming. After he pays several hundred dollars a month to his son, my husband is just about able to squeak out his half of our expenses. I earn decent money, and it's gotten to the point where I'm paying for all the extras we enjoy--dinners out and so on. It's not really much, and I don't want to be petty, but the situation is beginning to wear thin. I'm delighted for the boy, and happy that my husband is proud of him. But I have no interest in eating rice and beans for years to come so the kid can enjoy his engineering salary debt-free.</p>

<p>I fully intend to put my foot down about this, but am not sure just where to put it down and how hard. What do y'all think?</p>

2

<p>It sounds like YOU can afford this, even if your husband can’t. So let it be your gift to your husband. If he wants to do this for his son - and you can help him to do it - then why not?</p>

3

<p>Parents should not go into debt to pay for their children’s education. It’s time for the kid to take out a loan or transfer to a less expensive school.</p>

4

<p>Do you have children of your own, or between the two of you?</p>

5

<p>Graduating debt free is a great thing for the son, but it would also be a great thing for the dad! Paying for college needs to be part of the over all family financial program, not the only thing that matters. For example, if you and your husband don’t have a solid plan for retirement, you need to work that into the system now as well. Pop by your local library and pick up some books on personal finance. I like “Personal Finance for Dummies” and anything by Michelle Singletary.</p>

<p>All of that said, it may be necessary to live on your salary for the time period that your husband is re-training, so that what money he earns can go toward his classes. Perhaps he and the son can sit together and work out a debt plan - some for each, who is re-paying what when, etc. What was the plan for paying for this year back before your husband found out about the educational opportunity for himself and he was unemployed?</p>

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<p>What strikes me is your comment about your husband being barely able to squeak out his half of your expenses. Maybe I’m old school, but when a couple gets married, in the absence of money specifically set aside (like an inheritance), it’s all “theirs.” our money has always been joint and the decision making behind it joint. That was true when H was in medical school and I was the sole support, and it’s true now when H makes considerably more than me.</p>

7

<p>The financial aid process assumes that YOUR money is your husband’s money once you are legally married. It is all one pool. I have an ex who recently remarried someone who has a higher income than he does, effectively scuttling any chance at need based financial based aid for our kids. He didn’t even think about the implications of this, and of course he (and his new spouse) do not want to pay a penny toward college tuition for our kids. </p>

<p>This could be a point of pride for your husband, and he does not want to admit to his ex or son that he can’t help that much. Since it sounds like you are not at the table with them negotiating, it is tough for you to change the deal with the other two parties. If you haven’t already, you could ask your husband to tell them he has to reduce (but not eliminate) his payment, and that he will cosign (but not pay back unless his son can’t) any loans.</p>

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<p>intparent -</p>

<p>If the son hasn’t taken on any debt yet, he would be able to take out the federal/stafford loans without a co-signer. Not to mention that a father who is unemployed (or severely underemployed) and a student himself with his own student debt is not likely to qualify as a co-signer. The (presumably employed) mom, the employed step-mom, or someone else with the capacity to repay the loan(s) would need to be the co-signer.</p>

9

<p>To me, the hardest part of this situation is that you and your husband are not on the same page, and, therefore, you are not a part of the “Great Tuition Negotiation.” I think it will be very hard to arrive at a fair (to you AND your husband) resolution without you and your husband presenting a united front.</p>

<p>That being said, I do think it’s not wise or realistic for your household to take on debt for your step-son with your husband’s weak employment position. I fully understand wanting ones children to graduate without debt - we are currently working toward that with our 2 kids in college. We will not, however, take on debt ourselves or raid a retirement plan to pay for it. Thankfully my husband and I both are working and we are able to “pay as we go.” If he would lose his job, however, the tuition gravy train would come to a screeching halt and our kids would be forced to take on some debt. </p>

<p>I can understand your frustration with this sticky situation, and I wish you all the best in arriving at a resolution that is palatable to all involved.</p>

10

<p>Emmie- try to take the money off the table for a minute.</p>

<p>Does your H feel guilt or remorse at not “being there” for his son? I don’t know how long he’s been divorced, or how long you’ve been married, but there are many men who get out of a bad marriage only to discover that day to day life with their kids is one of the greatest joys of their lives… and if the ex wife gets custody, that ends.</p>

<p>Does he have other children? What is his relationship like with this son and the others?</p>

<p>Why was there no agreement in place about college?</p>

<p>I think you are in a losing position, frankly, if your stance going forward is going to be that your H must pull back his financial support of his son because you demand it. Your H has suffered the shame associated with being unemployed; has “lost” his son (even if they see each other frequently); and now you’re asking him to admit to his ex wife (probably not his biggest champion and supporter) that he can no longer afford to help with college?</p>

<p>I think you need to help your husband deal with this challenging situation from a position of strength, not weakness. That means putting together a detailed household budget for yourselves-- what it takes to keep the lights on, the occasional meals out, car insurance, savings for your own retirement, etc. Then look at your cash flow, both now and once your H finds a job. Identify where the surpluses might be, identify where the gaps might be, then look at the next two years of your H’s son’s college and decide what you can afford to subsidize. It may well be that your H asks you to forgo the dinners out so you can continue to put extra cash into paying down your mortgage or putting the money into the IRA- so you talk about that. Or you may ask your H to consider deferring maintenance on the house so you can continue to eat out, contribute to college, and have something to contribute to your retirement plans.</p>

<p>But you have a discussion where you realistically look at your expenses, your cash flow, and figure out the gaps… without demonizing your step-son’s college tuition as the reason why you are in a financial pickle. </p>

<p>To be honest, you are in a financial pickle because you married a man who had obligations to a previous family, and you were not aware that college expenses were not hammered out in court when they divorced. That doesn’t make your H a bad person. And that doesn’t make you a bad person for resenting the sacrifices that you’ve made and that still lie ahead.</p>

<p>But that shouldn’t be a reason for you to go after the kid. He’s not the reason his parents divorced, and he’s not the reason you are feeling a squeeze financially. And from his perspective- if his parents had stayed together, nobody would be having a discussion about whose paycheck goes to which expense and why does his college cost so damn much. If his parents had stayed together, they’d have sat down junior year of HS, figured out what they could afford AS A FAMILY and then put a plan together. Maybe a less expensive college. Maybe ROTC. Maybe merit aid. Maybe a combination of parental and child’s debt.</p>

<p>But you can’t blame the kid that at the age of 17 he lacked the financial maturity that both of his parents also seem to have lacked!!! If the parents never explained to him what their financial limitations were, seems logical to me that the kid reasons that if he can graduate debt free, why not???</p>

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<p>My suggestion is to run the numbers in the financial aid calculators and see who is supposed to be paying what based on income. Yes, your income and assets will be in the mix too because that’s the way it works. When you married him, you took on the kid for the way some colleges calculate need.</p>

<p>Bear in mind that the young man does have Stafford Loans that he can also take. The need should be split as should the loans.</p>

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<p>Outstanding post, blossom.</p>

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<p>You husband’s son should have some “skins in the game”, the son should at least takes out the Direct Loans in next two years.</p>

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<p>“Parents should not go into debt to pay for their children’s education.” </p>

<p>We’re in total disagreement here toledo. I would never go into debt to buy my kid a car, a house or an expensive wedding. </p>

<p>A college education, however? No problem as long as my son or daughter takes their education seriously and has some “skin in the game” also.</p>

15

<p>Insightful post , Blossom.
I’d also try to not overestimate the earning potential out of the gate for a “prestigious engineering degree”. My brother was laid off from his engineering job several years ago and is still looking for appropriate work. He’s lucky that he also has his military pension, but hiring is difficult all over and shouldn’t be overestimated.</p>

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<p>blossom – Wonderful post.</p>

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<p>If he’s about to start as a junior, the transfer option most likely passed with most schools…especially respectable/elite ones. They tend to expect transfer students to not have more than 2 years of undergrad credits…especially real undergrad courses. </p>

<p>If a given transfer applicant has more than 2 years and the school won’t allow him/her to drop some accumulated credits(easier to do with AP/CLEP credits than for actual college courses), he/she’s out of luck in transferring to that particular school. If they do allow him to drop credits including actual undergrad courses, it means his time as an undergrad may be extended. That may also not be an optimal situation.</p>

<p>Community college is even more of a non-starter as they’re unlikely to have the advanced engineering and core STEM courses he’ll need to finish his engineering degree. </p>

<p>ROTC is also out…especially for scholarships which are extremely competitive nowadays. First, a given campus must have an ROTC unit. Second, to join with a scholarship…one needs to join up no later than the beginning of junior year which necessitates making arrangements to do so sometime in one’s sophomore year and be competitive in relation to other ROTC cadets in that unit. </p>

<p>Moreover, keep in mind that if one gets an ROTC scholarship or joins from junior year onwards, a student is liable for 5 years of active duty service and 3 years in the reserve/inactive reserve. </p>

<p>If a war or serious emergency happens while he still has the 3 years remaining on his reserve/inactive reserve obligation, he can be “stop-lossed” and called back to the military for immediate deployment. This happened many times due to US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan…and surprised many folks who thought they finished their service obligations…including several friends/colleagues (i.e. 4-6 year enlistments, 5 year active duty obligation for Academy/ROTC graduates, etc).</p>

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<p>Put your foot down. What nobody seems to have mentioned explicitly is that your husband is essentially making the decision for the BOTH of you right now. Because unless you intend on divorce over this issue, that 20k debt will be yours as well. Since you don’t have a seat at the table, taking a stand against the agreement is perfectly reasonable.</p>

19

<p>Collective Synergy- this kind of brinksmanship- while emotionally appealing- is what leads to war. (figuratively.)</p>

<p>The OP does not want to be impoverished in her old age. Presumably, she also doesn’t want to be divorced from a man whom she otherwise loves over an inability to communicate about money.</p>

<p>Without seeing this family’s budget, you have no way of knowing what the tipping points are. Maybe its the kids tuition. (which the dad feels a moral obligation to pay even if he’s not being compelled by a court). Maybe they live in a house which they can no longer afford now that they have one income. Maybe the OP never put aside money in her IRA and now is looking at retirement looming and starting to worry about the years of lost compounding. (tax free). Maybe the mom has debts from HER previous husband or relationships.</p>

<p>Who knows, and it is their business to sort through. But I am pointing out that the only person in the mix who quite legitimately was not party to the divorce agreement which did not spell out the financial obligations was the kid- who was a minor when they divorced, and couldn’t possibly have predicted that this would become a serious issue for his parents in the future. The parents might have predicted it- they were adults after all. And shame on the lawyers who didn’t encourage them to spell future obligations out with an eye towards “what if”- what if someone loses a job; what if someone re-marries; etc.</p>

<p>But don’t demonize the kid.</p>

<p>And putting your foot down over a man’s child (whether from a previous marriage, a current marriage, or no marriage) is a guaranteed failing strategy. The guy already knows that wives come and go (we have exhibits A and B already) but this child is clearly the love of his life. You’re going to take that away from him?</p>

<p>Talk like adults. Don’t stomp your foot like a toddler.</p>

20

<p>The topic of who should pay (and how much) is very complicated even in families with no “steps.” I suggest a counselor/mediator. My otherwise happily married friend and her hubby met with a mediator over a very specific issue (whether private high school was “worth it”). The parents needed help in discussing the topic reasonably and rationally and the mediator was able to help them by pointing out certain observations about their conversation. I had not realized that professional assistance was available for a one-off situation like this.<br>
Good luck OP. It is hard to be in a situation that costs you in which you don’t feel that your input is being considered (I have a similar scenario with a family cabin on my husband’s side; I get asked for my money, but not my opinion on all outlays). That being said, I really feel for the kid and your husband. I would err on the side of being generous as long as you and your hubby are also preparing for your own retirement. You and your husband need to agree and he needs to communicate that decision as a JOINT decision.</p>