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<p>I don’t think there is much question what he/she was saying.
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<p>That is true also for many non-homeschooled students.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, due to budget cuts and dealing with more critical issues of students having bullying issues, emotional issues, performance issues, trouble at home issues, and so on, the GC does not really have time to help everyone as much as is needed.</p>
<p>And this is coming from a Top 150 school in a well-off district that had a lot of parent volunteers helping out in other areas of the school. Sadly, I would expect that the GC has an even tougher time in schools without that much resources.</p>
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<p>Agreed. Any responsible parent knows that in the real world, even if it is the bosses fault, you rarely get anywhere complaining about it. </p>
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<p>The smart HPs know that that rarely works. What may work is being aware of what is going on and making sure that if things are going off the rails, that the student is not in denial, is aware and taking corrective action.</p>
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Hold on to your hat. You are young. You have barely scratched the surface on frustration with entitlement. 
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<p>I’ll never forget my FIL’s advice to S when he was six years old and got an undeserved yellow-card in soccer: “The ref may not always be right; but he’s always the ref. Learn from it. Stop crying and get back in the game.” That has stuck with me and served me well since. </p>
<p>While I think some of this is due to the cost of college and financial insecurity, the “helicopter” parenting I have seen is more related to upper middle class/wealthy parents being concerned with status and their own recognition. A lot of this behavior occurs as elite private schools I hear where tuition is comparable to college.</p>
<p>My friends were answering questions for students admitted to a special science program they are in the other day. They said the parents were absolutely out of control, asking questions about their kid trying to get into law school even though they hadn’t graduated high school yet!</p>
<p>I can only speak for Engineering but a lot of kids get this stupid mentality from their parents who often know nothing about Engineering.</p>
<p>They come to the Engineering forum and ask questions like “If I don’t get into a top Engineering school, is it even worth it?” Totally dumb question but they are often shocked when they hear the following answer "As long as your Engineering school is accredited by ABET, where you got your degree from doesn’t really matter all that much.</p>
<p>I attend Iowa State University and I can tell you that anybody with an Engineering degree from this school can get anywhere they want in Engineering-it is all up to them.</p>
<p>I can’t justify rationally spending 3 or 4 times more to get the same degree.</p>
<p>There has been a lot of good discussion here that I think captures the issue well. One thing that has barely been touched on though is the OP’s first point.</p>
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Now we could argue forever if USNWR was just tapping into something that was already present in society and simply threw gasoline on a slowly growing fire or if they indeed served as a catalyst for something that would have stayed small otherwise. But there is no question in my mind that once they presented the idea of measuring the quality of colleges and had the chutzpah to title it a “Best Colleges” ranking, all bets were off. After all, when it is so easy to look it up, who wants to admit that their kid is at #63 when they know their neighbor’s kid is at #4. I know a lot still don’t care, but a lot do. I think the publishing of this ranking scheme made whatever situation existed (and it did exist, of course) palpably worse and is an absolutely travesty on multiple levels.</p>
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<p>Then you are probably not one of the ones having to pay full freight.</p>
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I have no doubt that is true, but that is potentially pretty misguided on the part of those that are baffled. Harvard and Yale are extremely different environments than UM and MSU. Sure Michigan, especially, has an extraordinary reputation for being excellent academically, but it is still a very large state school where sports are a very big deal and the whole environment is quite different than any of the Ivies. It is (or should be) all about fit, and that encompasses more than academics. Not to mention going to school in Boston or Philadelphia, or even New Haven for that matter to the extent that access to NYC is so good, is quite different than going to school in Ann Arbor, nice as that college town is. So they really shouldn’t be so baffled if that is what the student is looking for and has Ivy qualifications.</p>
<p>“2. My average to above average child deserves to go to an elite, selective school” </p>
<p>This is the only one that’s not crazy. What’s wrong with this? Are elite/selective schools not the fruits of hard work? Should a 4.0 student really go to a community college? </p>
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<p>Sadly, for some it is worse than that. Admitting their kid is at #63 when their neighbors is at (gasp) 53. That is 15% worse! (I know the math isn’t accurate).</p>
<p>For some, they live in a world of lists and rankings. Colleges, cars, computers, cell phones, jobs (best companies to work for!), mutual funds and so on.</p>
<p>@Poeme stated, “…the “helicopter” parenting I have seen is more related to upper middle class/wealthy parents being concerned with status and their own recognition.”</p>
<p>It is possible you are projecting SES issues where there are none. </p>
<p>Simple question - Why could it not be the same reasoning as any other parent? They just would like to see their kids do better than they. </p>
<p>Why do you think high SES parent do not look forward and upward for their kids just like low SES parents? All parents want the same things for their children wherever they start out, i.e., better. It is a big leap to assume selfishness on a parent helping their kid out. You really should know the person to be able to say that.</p>
<p>I see helicopter parenting as meddling in kid’s private affairs, not as trying to help them do well. </p>
<p>The USNWR ranking should not be used as an absolute way to measure a school quality since the methodology is flawed IMO but one should looked at only as a reference, the important part is looking how a school ranks in a particular area or specialty.</p>
<p>Example: I am an Industrial Engineering student and the best IE Department in the world is at Georgia Tech. A resident of GA can attend GA Tech for about 11 K/ year. One year at Stanford would have cost him 45K. </p>
<p>Overall, the GA resident who graduated from GA Tech, would have paid 4 times less in tuition and the average starting salary is about the same.</p>
<p>Instead of bashing parents and casting moral judgements on those who fetishize elite schools and obsess over their children’s college admissions, I think it would be more productive to figure out where the worry is coming from. If a large portion of parents are acting in ways that are (to quote previous posts on this thread) “irrational,” “out-of-control,” “crazy” "elitist"and “entitled,” what is happening in our culture that they are responding to? I think there is a sense that this country is turning into a nation of haves and have nots–the notion that if you work hard you can “make it” in America is being sorely tested and the result has been a wide range of seemingly irrational over-the-top behavior on both sides of the political spectrum. When I was a teenager no one thought much about college choices. Fall of senior year I took the SATS, met with my GC, filled out applications, and quickly went back to spending my weekends playing Joni Mitchell songs on the guitar. I was accepted and attended an Ivy League school. My parents were thrilled. But they hadn’t been involved at all in the process. Today, my same parents would be all over it! I am certain my mother would be calIing my GC, poring over my applications, offering feedback on my essay, enrolling me in SAT classes, etc. Same Mom, different generation. Would you say she suddenly became “crazy” “elitist” and “entitled?” She would be responding to a threat to her child. Today, many parents fear there is a continuing and dramatic decline in opportunities, which makes a degree from a “top 20” school seem like a ticket to the lifeboat. </p>
<p>@allforthebest - You are completely misunderstanding what the OP is saying there. If the child is average to above average (the latter term technically covers everything over average but is universally known to mean somewhere between average and excellent, and possibly another tier above excellent such as superior), then they don’t have a 4.0 UW GPA. The OP’s point is clearly that many parents have a sense of entitlement for their child’s college prospects that don’t at all match the child’s record of achievement.</p>
<p>The elite, most highly selective schools should certainly be an option for those students you have the highest levels of achievement, however that term is currently defined. Currently that definition is more than a near-perfect or perfect GPA. In any case, the OP’s point is valid as stated. I am sure you understand that now. And by the way, there are thousands of excellent options between the most selective schools and community college.</p>
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You are right, of course. I was using the extreme to make a point, but stated the way you did perhaps makes it even more powerfully.</p>
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Oh, I could pontificate for hours about the farce that is the USNWR ranking system. Or any ranking system, but theirs has the most influence by far. I also agree with your example about engineering at the undergrad level. One could say the same for Michigan, if one is in-state. But many surveys have shown that average starting salaries for engineering graduates of schools that don’t rank nearly as high according to USNWR (undergraduate only) are very similar to those from Stanford, Ga. Tech, MIT, etc. So saving the money to go to the state school makes a lot of sense for a lot of students, but for others there may be other very valid reasons to go to Stanford, MIT, Harvard, etc. Therefore I would only disagree with your last statement, and only at the undergraduate level. For graduate programs the rankings have more validity, for reasons that are not appropriate to discuss on this thread.</p>
<p>@fallenchemist I did not misunderstand the post, but I actually believe you misunderstood my hyperbole. An “above average” student certainly could have a 4.0. That much I know! Again, my response was simply a satiric, rhetorical hyperbole. I do, however, really believe that it is never wrong for any student to strive for great things such as an elite school. It’s not crazy for a parent to think that. What should they think, “My child sucks! I hope he works at the local McDonalds!” No, parents who think THAT are the crazy ones!</p>
<p>@allforthebest - OK, I find the hyperbole and sarcasm almost impossible to detect, but I will take your word for it. Maybe an appropriate emoticon would help when you are being that subtle. And I repeat, almost no one would describe a 4.0 student as “above average” rather than “excellent” or “top of their class” or something far more superlative than “above average”. Trying to communicate using hypertechnicalities rather than real world language is not effective in these kinds of conversations.</p>
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There is such a thing as being realistic. For any parent that has a child with a 3.2 UW GPA, no AP courses, and SAT scores of 550 580 560, i.e. pretty average, to think that child is going to Harvard or any Ivy or Ivy type school is simply being delusional. There is a lot of ground between striving for the impossible and “My child sucks”. Why are you making everything so black and white?</p>
<p>The downside is, potentially, great disappointment for both the parent and the child, the latter potentially feeling like much more of a failure that is deserved by the situation. I can dream of hitting .400 in the major leagues too, but what’s the use of that? Both are equally delusional.</p>
<p>@fondmemories - Awesome description! You described my college application process exactly except I was listening to Pink Floyd, Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. And my parents too had zilch to do with it, except for asking me where I was applying.</p>
<p>But to address your larger question of why it is different today? I think I can provide an answer because I went through it last year and this year: COST. This is where one poster @GMTplus7 had it correct. </p>
<p>My four years of undergrad, at a school like you attended, cost a grand total (tuition, room and board and including buying a car) of $54,000. </p>
<p>Fast forward 30 years and that $54,000 does not get one son through an entire academic year, gets only 8 months. With a budget of over $275,000 including spending money for four years, you might see why a parent on the hook for that might want much more say. Parents, in my case, and there are many, see double that, as I will have two in college starting September. </p>
<p>Bottom line - my parents were only out $54,000 if I screwed up my college decision. I would be out minimum $275,0000 or even as much as $550,000 if my sons screwed up their decisions, and they fell short of doing what they wanted. And by screw up I mean not going over important details and really narrowing the schools for potential major, fit, social life etc. </p>
<p>For example, my one son plays heavy metal and hard rock. Would be silly for him to go to a school where the student body does not have the type of student from which he can form a couple bands AND which lacks a student body that would come listen to them play. But he also plays another first chair instrument in orchestra and two in jazz ensembles - need to make sure those are available too. That takes serious research and traveling to several schools to investigate if all those would be possible. </p>
<p>However, there is a difference between helping to ensure the investment is a good one and helicoptering. But, I do see where parents, especially when writing such large checks, would like more say. Parents just need to know where to stop. I stopped at being taxi and plane ticket buyer. I was just thrilled they were doing their research; they took it from there. And if they asked my advice, I happily gave it. </p>