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For what it’s worth, the fraternity that did that was well known for rapeyness before and after than incident.</p>
<p>Referring to a fraternity as “rapey” is no joke. It’s the term women use to warn others to avoid the fraternity. Perhaps it’s overly strong, but it is used to indicate the kind of place where the men are particularly sexually aggressive. If you don’t think most Greek systems don’t have at least one fraternity with a reputation like that, you’re living in a dream world.</p>
<p>^ I agree with everything you are writing here.</p>
<p>The young people I know don’t use “rapey” as a joke. It is a short-hand allusion to a commonly understood pervasive cultural problem that I won’t even bring up on this thread.</p>
<p>I don’t know if they should use different language. Bay and Lucie have good points.</p>
<p>By the way, here’s an article that comes up when you google “rapey.” Interestingly, it involves Phi Kappa Tau:</p>
<p><a href=“Asinine E-mail From Frat Bro Gives Instruction on How to Rape-y Dance”>http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/10/this-rape-y-e-mail-teaches-frat-bros-to-dance.html</a></p>
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<p>This borders on slanderous, in my opinion. Some of the men in that fraternity are family friends.</p>
<p>Don’t slander and libel require the allegations to be false? Guilt by association might be a better descriptive. </p>
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<p>“Sensible girls?” What is this, the 1950s?</p>
<p>I am not aware of any fraternity houses girls are supposed to avoid.</p>
<p>Bay: how do you describe that behavior? What is the correct language in your opinion?</p>
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Then they should be horrified at what their fraternity has become. The members of that fraternity, in recent years, have made a mockery of what it is supposed to stand for. Why do the alumni put up with it?
At what college? And what’s your source of information?</p>
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<p>Yes, false and malicious. Sounds applicable, unless the speaker has knowledge that rapes occurred in that house before and after.</p>
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<p>At any college. I’ve never heard from any of my kids that there is a fraternity house that “girls are supposed to avoid,” nor did I hear that in my own Greek college days.</p>
<p>Sure, Bay. Sure. What colleges were these, by the way?</p>
<p>I was in college 74-78. The actives told pledges which houses to avoid spending time in. My nieces are currently in sororities. They have mentioned in passing “houses to avoid.” Maybe all the sorority women reading could now raise their hands if this is consistent with their own experience? I count me, my sisters, my sister-in-laws, and my nieces. And the daughter of a friend who had this belief about a local fraternity (family lives in university town) while still in HS and shared it with her mom and me at a dinner in 2009.</p>
<p>and again - what language is appropriate to use to describe the Deke’s behavior. Their actions are not under debate. There is ample documentation.</p>
<p>None of your business.</p>
<p>I really think some people who are not Greek have become delusional.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that every Greek student is perfect, but some of you have created a monster that exists only in the movies.</p>
<p>I’m greek. practically my whole family is greek. for 4 generations now.</p>
<p>Unless I am mistaken, someone mentioned upthread that similar threads on CC are predictable. Many of us have been here such a long time that it is indeed true that our reactions are expected to follow the same patterns as in the past. Patterns formed by our personal experiences. Parents with children in fraternities are not expected to enjoy the criticisms leveled at the organizations enjoyed by their children. Families and friends of students who got victimized by the actions of a “few” rotten apples might have a different opinions. </p>
<p>However, in the end, even the vociferous critics of the fraternities and the colleges admins are fully aware that Greek life will not disappear from the campuses anytime soon. And, I believe that few Greek supporters are oblivious to the growing need to control and punish the activities such as hazing and sexual attacks with more intent. I also believe that many will support a practice to punish the rotten apples with vogor and let the world see how beneficial the presence of the fraternities are. </p>
<p>All of us believe that certain parts of the arguments presented here are partly true and partly false. Most of us realize that all fraternities (and especially sororities) are not as toxic as the ones that made the news --and repeatedly to boot. </p>
<p>In the end, I think we can all agree that colleges should do a better job in educating freshmen about the looming dangers they face when starting college. And, that better job includes a LOT more than forcing the students to take a silly online test. That better job should include a closer monitoring and a greater willingness to be open when drama occur and be more willing to clean house when nefarious acts are clear. </p>
<p>Fwiw, many parents here invest great efforts and time to visit the colleges with their children. The focus is mostly on the buildings, the dorms, the classes, the landscape, and the overall value of a degree. Perhaps, it might be helpful to also visit the school after 10PM and become more intuned with what happens when most people are asleep. Just a thought! </p>
<p>PS Bay, not all of the “detractors” are delusional or unaware of how fraternities operate. I have countless friends who opted for a Greek life. My younger sister joined a sorority at her school, and it is a school that has had repeated issues with the behavior of its students. Not all problems of bad behavior by teenagers can be traced to the Greeks. My own school has often walked a fine line in that regard despite the absence of Greek life on campus. </p>
<p>Too bad. I was hoping to learn about some colleges that have really good Greek systems, without a bunch of rager parties in which guys try to get girls as drunk as possible so they can hook up.</p>
<p>Why Hunt, are you thinking of going back to college?</p>
<p>No one is excusing the behavior of guys who create “rapey” frats (whatever we think of the word). It begs the question, however, would these guys still be “rapey” if they weren’t in a Greek house. I think they would be. I think some guys are just jerks and they’d be jerks no matter what the sweatshirt they are wearing. </p>
<p>PG: I have begun to wonder myself whether the very few rapists who exist on campus are attracted to fraternities because it gives them more access to potential victims or whether <em>sometimes</em> the culture promotes rape. The link Hunt posted in #82 is pretty interesting. Who is going to join that kind of group?</p>
<p>ETA: Are they teaching their pledges a behavior the pledges didn’t imagine acceptable previously? </p>
<p>And just out of curiosity, when you were in college and in a sorority, were there some fraternities you understood to be potentially risky situations? Or at least some fraternity houses where you wouldn’t consider going upstairs? Did your sorority discuss this sort of thing with pledges?</p>
<p>I am trying to envision this scenario. Actives tell pledges, “We are going to a mixer tonight. Since it is at a fraternity house, you don’t have to be cautious what you drink. Those boys are very safe. You can get as drunk as you please without worries.”</p>
<p>“only in the movies”? Really?</p>
<p>Back in the day, I attended one of the Greek-est campuses you can imagine. I can assure you that every woman on that campus - Greek and independent alike - knew which fraternities were the “rapey” ones (and we called it “rapey” back then too.) And no, I’m not delusional. </p>