<p>Their requirements for admission aren't that high and Indiana itself isn't the most prestigious of institutions. So given these facts, why is Kelley considered such a good business program, and why do IB firms recruit Kelley students while not even considering students from programs such as Penn State Smeal and UMD Smith when the quality of the student body is pretty much the same if not better.</p>
<p>answer my question please!!!!!!</p>
<p>The IBs really only recruit kids from the IB workshop at Kelley which can be tough to get into, it's mostly the top students in the b-school.</p>
<p>your question should be what iB jobs does the Kelley student get? Not that they are in iB. That industry covers lots of territory.</p>
<p>Hazmat, what jobs do they get?</p>
<p>regional appeal more than national or international. I defer to those in the know for my personal knowlege is skewed to WhartHogs and MIT. You could look for the WSJ annual evaluations of regional programs which addressed both Kelley and
Krannert. I also include the newest article I've read.
<a href="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_38/b4001601.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_38/b4001601.htm</a></p>
<p>Does anybody have any ideas or personal opinions about what kind of gpa (cumulative or within business major) a student coming from Kelley should have in order to be competitive for consulting internships or full-time jobs? Obviously you need more than a gpa but right now I'm trying to understand what "academic" range I should try to strive for.</p>
<p>Wow, lots of misinformation going around about Kelley.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The IBs really only recruit kids from the IB workshop at Kelley which can be tough to get into, it's mostly the top students in the b-school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wrong. 10% of the entire 2006 Kelley class went into Ibanking. That's 27% of finance majors, plus an assortment of other majors.</p>
<p><a href="http://ucso.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/ReportCenter/annual_reports/2005-2006.doc%5B/url%5D">http://ucso.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/ReportCenter/annual_reports/2005-2006.doc</a>
<a href="http://ucso.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/brochures/Finance.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://ucso.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/brochures/Finance.cfm</a></p>
<p>For comparison's sake Wharton sent 40% of its class into IBanking and both Kelley and Wharton had the same average starting salary in Ibanking: 56k</p>
<p>Other than that the original poster somehow got the idea that overall ranking makes a difference to business schools. It doesn't. For example, Washington University in St. Louis is ranked #12 overall by USNews, while the University of Michigan is only ranked 24th. Does that mean WashU's Olin school of business is better than UMich's Ross? I don't think so.</p>
<p>"Other than that the original poster somehow got the idea that overall ranking makes a difference to business schools. It doesn't. For example, Washington University in St. Louis is ranked #12 overall by USNews, while the University of Michigan is only ranked 24th. Does that mean WashU's Olin school of business is better than UMich's Ross? I don't think so."</p>
<p>Most of the times it does. For example UMCP Smith is ranked higher than Georgetown's McDonough, but McDonough's recruiting is significantly better. Why? Because of the school's overall prestige is better than Marylands.</p>
<p>................
[quote]
** second # is 2005
Company Name # ofAccepted Offers
1. Citigroup 38 Citigroup 36
2. Goldman Sachs 27 Goldman Sachs 27
3. McKinsey & Co. 19 UBS 14
4. Morgan Stanley 19 McKinsey & Co. 12
5. JPMorgan Chase 18 Credit Suisse First Boston 11
6. Deutsche Bank 17 Deutsche Bank 8
7. Lehman Brothers 13 Boston Consulting Group 7
8. Merrill Lynch 11 Microsoft 7
9. UBS 11 Jefferies & Co. 6
10. Credit Suisse First Boston 10
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>
[quote]
**FINANCE 63.0% $60,320 $30,000 - $100,000 $60,861[M] $59,114[F]
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most of the times it does. For example UMCP Smith is ranked higher than Georgetown's McDonough, but McDonough's recruiting is significantly better. Why? Because of the school's overall prestige is better than Marylands.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually USNews has been underranking Georgetown's business school for decades now. See the BW rankings:</p>
<p>That's the problem with the USNews business ranking. It only goes off of one data source so the chance of an error increases dramatically. You know, the whole "never put all your eggs in one basket", idea.</p>
<p>If what you are saying about "overall prestige" affecting recruiting was true the recruiters would be fawning all over Harvard Extension School graduates simply because it has Harvard in the name. They're not that stupid.</p>
<p>Rankings mean nothing for ibanking and management consulting. Kelley will send plenty of people to big banks, but nothing compared to the numbers as shown in hazmat's post. Are the majority of the banks recruiting at kelley regional or national. What positions are they hiring for? When considering this and the numbers recruited, then you will see kelley, sadly is no where near penn. But excluding this, you still have decent marketing recruitment, excellent accounting, manufacturing etc. Still a great school</p>
<p>
[quote]
Rankings mean nothing for ibanking and management consulting.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Interesting then that they chose to participate in BusinessWeek's ranking, 20% of which is based on a recruiter survey.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Kelley will send plenty of people to big banks, but nothing compared to the numbers as shown in hazmat's post. Are the majority of the banks recruiting at kelley regional or national. What positions are they hiring for? When considering this and the numbers recruited, then you will see kelley, sadly is no where near penn. But excluding this, you still have decent marketing recruitment, excellent accounting, manufacturing etc. Still a great school
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You might want to check your math. 10% of a total class of about 1600 is about 160. Compared to Wharton's 40-50% of about 500-600 which cranks out to about 200-250. And thats not even taking into account the massive amount of finance majors versus other business majors at Wharton. Whereas at Kelley there are large numbers of marketing, information systems, etc. majors who have no interest in Ibanking.</p>
<p>And no, these banks are not a bunch of regionals either:</p>
<p>There are a lot of valid reasons to criticize Kelley. But Ibank recruitment is not one of them.</p>
<p>Dresner = middle market
BofA = having trouble attracting top talent as they choose other banks over their unit
Houlihan Lokey Howard & Zukin = serves smaller clients = middle market, yet still international
Brown Gibbons Lang & Company = middle market
ThinkEquity Partners = rather small middle market ibank
BMO = similar to bofa and big in CANADA and europe
Sandler O'Neill & Partners, L.P. = boutique for certan business sectors
Robert W. Baird & Co, Inc. = middle market</p>
<p>And then you have UBS, Goldman and Bear sterns, 2 of which are leaders in the league tables and one of which shows up now and again. </p>
<p>I am going by the list that you have given me. Not saying anything bad, but it isnt overly impressive. League table numbers that i am deriving everything from are a few years old, probably 04.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Interesting then that they chose to participate in BusinessWeek's ranking, 20% of which is based on a recruiter survey.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ok, hiring practices for these jobs dont rely heavily on school rankings, they rely on prestige, numbers and the alumni that fill their offices.</p>
<p>371 MAY 2006 GRADS a little more data:
[quote]
**Investment Analysis 48.5% $60,614 $40,000 - $100,000 </p>
<p>Financial Analyst (generalist) 25.4% $60,160 $40,000 - $100,000
Mergers & Acquisitions Analyst 10.1% $61,707 $55,000 - $76,000
Private Equity/Venture Capital 7.7% $58,984 $50,000 - $65,000
Capital/Money Markets Analyst 3.0% $60,667 $60,000 - $65,000
Securities Research Analyst 1.2% $68,000 $60,000 - $85,000
Energy Analyst 0.7% * * * *
Public Finance Analyst 0.2% * * * *
Risk & Foreign Exchange 0.2%
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>
[quote]
** Communications 1%
Commercial Lending 0.2%
Corporate Finance (non-banking) 0.7%
Financial Mgmt./Marketing 5.9%
Sales [5.2%]and Trading [2.2%]=7.4
Government 1.2%
Manufacturing 2.2%
Non-Profit Education 1.5%
Services 22.7
~~Health Care for profit .5%
~~Consulting 19.2%
~~Import/Export .2%
~~Retail/Wholesale 2.5%
~~Utilities .2%
Technology 2.2%
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>what happened to my question.....</p>
<p>I am thinking it stands as the thread title at this point in time. Are you getting the types of answers you wanted? What are you really wanting to know? You would likely need at least a 3.0 but to compete with others....maybe shoot higher. Have you searched out SEO?</p>
<p>A recent article indicated top Ibanks arer expanding beyond the old school ties they have used. In 5 years you will see far more diversity in recruitment if the economy holds together.</p>
<p>I have read the same articles, but that has "supposedly" been happening for the past 10 years and the numbers are still relatively low for recruitment outside the norm. And i think the increases are coming from the schools rather than the banks. Berkley is strongly encouraging recruitment through fancy red carpet visits that they throw, ASU is starting a program with their small ibank alumni base and the regional banks in phoenix, Oregon simply has very few students that are interested despite their alumni's frequent news letters and bulletins spreading the word about ibanking in NYC, Iowa's program fails to place "large" numbers in ibanking, rather they send them to analyst services and investment firms in chicago, etc. It has been happening at the top undergrad biz schools for some time, but numbers barely reflect that. And what i have mentioned is just a small percentage of such programs. ASU's program is the most recent starting just this year. Wisconsin and Kelley have grown the most with Wisconsin's spur being driven mostly by a single investment banking club and the rest driven by management consulting firms spreading their recruitment through more campuses, bain and mckinsey being the most significant. Consulting has grown considerably more than ibanking and why i dont know</p>