<p>I know that rankings are hardly the be-all and end-all of college quality. Still, as someone whose daughter is going to apply, it bothers me that SUNY Bing has fallen more than 10 places on the U.S. News and World Report rankings. It was 74 last year (I think), and now it's 86. Anyone care to hazard a guess why? Larger classes? Lower alum giving? Or just staying the same while other colleges improved?</p>
<p>Did you know that it is ranked #167 on the Washington Monthly ranking system. Go figure.</p>
<p>rankings schmankings...its all a game...</p>
<p>Which rankings?</p>
<p>Yes, it is all a game, but the offspring of my friends in New York really want to avoid the SUNY system at all costs, which in the case of Binghamton, Stony Brook and a few others, isn't a logical reaction but an emotional one. SUNY's - unfairly - are viewed by many as schools of reluctant resort. How it is that droves of kids in Long Island who are middle to above average students really are keen on spending out of state tuition to go to University of Maryland (a popular New York choice) when the quality at a Binghamton is the same, is a mystery to me. </p>
<p>The State of New York really has blown it by not developing a flagship university, which in my view would lift up other participants in the system. Of course, such a move would be expensive, and New Yorkers are already taxed to the hilt - but as I say, a shame.</p>
<p>My kid is one of those who is desperate to go anywhere but to a SUNY. Which annoys me beyond words. She would rather go to a private at more than twice the price. Sigh.</p>
<p>My oldest applied and was accepted to Binghamton 6 years ago. It was a serious consideration for him after he visited the school for a couple of days, and would have been a great financial deal for us. It was very bothersome, however, to be getting notices on how the state had cut money, and the school was therefore, cutting services in a variety of areas. We received a number of those notices before acceptance time. Not good advertisement for a school, though I was impressed with the honesty.
Well, my other son applied to both Buffalo and Binghamton, and chose Buffalo. I can tell you that place is oozing with money and amenities, and it seems Binghamton is still suffering. Buffalo was chosen as the flagship Suny for the state and they are really enjoying the financial benefits, which I am afraid are coming at the expense of the other SUNYs that are getting more and more cuts. Buffalo is still a long way from becoming a true flagship school in the traditional sense as UMD is, but it is closer than any other SUNY. It has terrific resources, new workings and buildings, lots of space, and some excellent departments. The financial aid , I hear is good, and the merit awards I know are phenomonal as we are reaping the benefits of them. Kids with more stellar profiles than my son, are getting token awards, if anything at Binghamton. The football team just hired a top rate coach to get the program going (yeah, I know who cares--the kids do, hot football really rejuvenates a school, not that I personally care about the sport) and the Performing Arts department is taking off with phenomonal facilities well integrated into the city's arts offerings. The faculty is very active with school activities and it appears that all are on board to give this school a push to the first rate list. Whether it succeeds or not, I don't know, but the efforts are there. It was not really even a consideration on my son's list, just a financial and admissions safety, but the visit sold him. The biggest issue for Buffalo is going to be its transition from a major commuting school to a major university community. If it can make that jump, in my opinion, its rankings will go way up there.</p>
<p>cpt,
I am fascinated by the details you have given. When I grew up in NY, SUNY Bing (Harpur) was clearly the best of the bunch. Many of my very bright adult friends in the area graduated from SUNY Bing. I thought that Buffalo has had the rep as a party school with academics clearly inferior to Bing. When you said that Buffalo has been chosen as "the flagship" of the SUNY system, can you please explain further what you know about this decision.</p>
<p>My son is one who wanted to avoid attending a SUNY school at all costs. I made him choose one to apply to as a safety & he picked SUNY Buffalo, because it seemed to be the closest to flagship university. It was helpful when comparing financial offers from other schools to what Buffalo offered him. Luckily he got a couple of offers that were close in price to a SUNY, but more to his liking. He is happily attending Clemson University in SC (yes - good football team does matter to some kids) & he got a waiver of out-of-state tuition differential. So... Mom & Dad are happy too!</p>
<p>Assuming your numbers are correct at last year =74 and this year = 86:</p>
<p>Last year SUNY Bing was in the top 100 schools in the country, but not quite in the so-called "first tier" of the top 50. This year SUNY Bing is in the top 100 schools in the country but not quite in the so-called "first tier" of the top 50.</p>
<p>That's about as close as you can cut it. No real difference. There are over 3000 institutions of higher learning in the U.S. They are in the top 5% however you cut it.</p>
<p>We all refer to the rankings (I know I do, guilty as charged), but we should use them just as jumping off points to identify some possible schools of interest. Nothing more. The difference between being ranked #74 vs. #86 is entirely trivial.</p>
<p>There was a very long thread over the summer started by asterikea (I think) that went back and forth on the quality of the sunys. If anyone remembers it, they could post a link for you. It had something like 200 posts...</p>
<p>I found it, but I don't know how to link. It was called NYT article: New York is the place to be</p>
<p>
[quote]
How it is that droves of kids in Long Island who are middle to above average students really are keen on spending out of state tuition to go to University of Maryland (a popular New York choice) when the quality at a Binghamton is the same, is a mystery to me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We Marylanders kind of wonder about that, too. It has not escaped our notice that most of the out of staters at our flagship state university are from New York.</p>
<p>But perhaps the attraction is that the University of Maryland really is a flagship state school -- with big-time sports and all the excitement that goes with them. It's also ten miles from Washington, DC, which is a big attraction for a lot of students. The University of Maryland also has a thriving Jewish community, which is important to a lot of Jewish out of staters. </p>
<p>I have to say that I've never heard of a Maryland kid going to a SUNY school. Our kids will trek up north for some New York colleges -- NYU especially, but also Cornell, Vassar, Columbia, or maybe even Rochester -- but not SUNYs.</p>
<p>i think all public schools took a hit this year in the USNWR</p>
<p>look at all the UC schools, they all dropped a couple of ranks with no noticeable change..</p>
<p>I graduated from Bing. My older D graduated from Stony Brook. My younger D had no interest in any SUNY and I don't blame her. The SUNYs are pretty close to a crisis point on funding. There has been a steady growth in enrollments with a decrease of 1000 faculty members over the past 10 years. Student:faculty ratios have gone beyond 20:1 at most SUNYs. Personally, I think the solution is clear. SUNY tuition of about $4000/year is too much of a bargain. SUNY tuition needs to be about twice the current level with maybe a small portion of the increased revenue going to financial aid and the majority to improvements, especially with adequate increases in faculty.</p>
<p>Marian, Interestingly, when we attended Accepted Student's Day at James Madison in VA, we came across quite a few students from MD (as well as other states).</p>
<p>Momof3sons, we moved here to NY about the time my oldest was looking at colleges. He wanted to play a sport and though he was Division 1 level, he was not the calibre that a Big 10 or any of the big flagship state would be interested. Binghamton was a good fit and he was recruited from there. He was not in the least bit interested in the school until he went and visited for a couple of days, after which it rose considerably on his list. He only applied to Binghamton of the SUNY, and it was then, as it still is now, considered the strongest of the universities in the state system. </p>
<p>The story I heard--but never officially verified, was that NY wanted to designate one of its 4 universities as a flagship school to bolster interest in the school, particularly from out of staters. We New Yorkers have very few from out of state in our state schools which does affect the type of schools they are. The diversity, including geographic is definitely a factor in the atmosphere of a school and the type of community that grows. From what I heard, the battle was pitched between Albany and Binghamton, with Binghamton heavily favored since it has the best academic students as measured by test scores and grades. Well, the dark horse, Buffalo, got the designation---I do not know why. It is the biggest campus, has more students, does have more out of staters especially international students, and the best football team (not saying a whole lot there) of the SUNYs. Academically, it has the best graduate school system in place with a Med school, law school and many excellent graduate departments. It also has plenty of land for expansion. Anyway, it is NY's flagship school, which most significantly for the school, means the lion's share of the state college funds. And you can see that with your own two eyes if you visit that campus. Little expense is being spared at Buffalo on things that many campuses that are now being financially squeezed by cuts in the state education budget (not just in NY) are having to eliminate or downsize. Expansion is the word at Buffalo. Things that are being cut at Binghamton due to loss of state money (This info I got directly from Binghamton in the form of notices mailed to applicant), are not touched by Buffalo, and instead they seem to be adding more things all of the time. THe Dali Lama visited this fall as their guest, the Performing Art Center is subidized by the city so it gets some phenomonal performances that students can see at very low prices, and students can find work with those professionals as well. Everything is fresh and new at the North Campus which is where most of the undergraduate courses are held. Brand spanking new from dorms, library to apartments. </p>
<p>Marian's post about UMD's atmosphere is right on. That is what Buffalo wants to capture. IT still has a long way to go, and may never get there as it has several things against it, not the least history and reputation. It is still largely a commuter school, mainly because of the urban base it serves,
unlike some big state schools that are out in the middle of no where so that more of the students have to live on campus or in campus housing. The location is not considered particularly desireable. It is not as big as the true flagship schools.<br>
What it has going for it is the price--even for out of staters it is a bargain, even after a hefty % increase that was recently given to out of staters. It also has the money for merit aid. The cost of living is low in Buffalo, and yet it is a fairly major city. If a school like Syracuse can attract students and go up there in rating, well, maybe Buffalo, especially with that enormous differential in cost.<br>
Not that much difference in the ratings chart yet, though each year has yielded a higher quality freshman class. The school is working very hard at this goal, I can tell you, and it is mimicking many of the top 50 universitie sin putting their best foot foward at university functions. </p>
<p>I would not have picked the school for my son when it came time to choose. But his reasons were solid. I would have (complainingly) paid for any number of schools that would have cost much, much more, and felt it was worth it. But some things that he really wanted, access to certain classes in different departments was really only available there among his choices. I did not like ths school, but kept my mouth shut since it was my son's choice. I still prefer private colleges or flagship state schools, but I can see the effort and resources that is being put into Buffalo, and my son is getting more than his share of the manna.<br>
Now in starting my next son's college list, we arae being more cost conscious for a number of reasons. We are looking at schools like James Madison, St Mary's, College of Charleston, Mary Washington. But price wise, SUNY wins out hands down. And that's without presuming any merit money which as of now if things continue down a path, he probably will get from SUNY Buffalo. His stats are not up there enough to get more than a bit if any from Binghamton, judging from who we know and what they got relative to their academic profiles.</p>
<p>I am very intrigued by these posts. When did this official "flagship" status designation occur? I must say, coming from Rochester, a large number of graduates from my class matriculated at UB. The only SUNYs that were more heavily attended were Geneseo (because of proximity and size) and Fredonia (because of the party reputation).</p>
<p>One of my very close friends decided to attend UB even though she got into "better schools" like UMichigan, and could have afforded them. I was very surprised when she told me the dalai lama was coming to speak, and when I saw the football team on espn.com (who even knew they had a football team?). I guess these are just results of getting such an increase in funding.</p>
<p>I am one of those students that chose out-of-state tuition at a public college instead of attending a SUNY or a private school (which still cost almost double what UNC costs). However, I, too, find the New York attraction to UMD-CP a little bizarre. Many of my friends applied, and a few attended. I suppose it is the sports programs and DC, as well.</p>
<p>Anyways, I have always felt a little bit like the SUNY system is largely a fallback, at least in my town (with the exception of Geneseo). I was actually surprised at how many students I have met here at UNC that have wanted to go here since they were little, that had parents that went here, etc... which is just something you don't find within the SUNY system.</p>
<p>I don't know precisely when the official designation occurred and though the "flagship" status was proudly proclaimed many times during my visits to Buffalo, the precise sequence and timing of events was not given. I do know that 6 years ago, all news and college sources would state that NY had no flagship state uni--that the 4 major unis, Binghamton, Stoney Brook, Albany and Buffalo were the flagship schools for the state. Bing for the liberal arts s, Stoney Brook for the Sciences, Albany for the Government courses. Buffalo, well, it was the biggest of the schools.
Now if you" google flagship school New York" many sites give the title to Buffalo, including the Wikapedia.<br>
Back when the flagship talk was in the air, my husband was the only one I knew to proclaim Buffalo as the winner, the reason being that it the premier public research facility in NY for graduate and professional studies. I thought he was way off since the argument seemed to be whether Albany or Binghamton should get the honor.<br>
And, yes, Buffalo is spending the money to get its name out. How effective to the general populatin, I don't know. But my highschooler really wanted to see the Dalai Lama and was so jealous that his brother at Buffalo did get to go to that event (alot of highschool kids were a bit taken aback and impressed--did not know that the Dalai Lama haad such an impact with highschoolers), and my little ones really want to go see the Parents' weekend football game with Miami of Ohio because their favorite football player is Ben Rothelsberger from guess where? The older of the two is a football fan who loves to read trivia about the sport, and knows all about the new football coach at Buffalo.<br>
In many ways this is so good. Schools like Miami of Ohio becoming known to NY kids still in primary and middles schools. Schools like James Madison, Ohio U, Miami of Ohio, Suny Buffalo becoming somewhat familiar to them way before they are thinking of going to college themselves. Better than my older ones who could not think of any college names outside of the big sports schools, local schools, and the top schools, before they started an intensive college search. And kids do feel more comfortable with the familiar. I am glad to see more schools gaining recognition.</p>
<p>We visited UMD-CP in July and were very impressed. The campus is just beautiful. The grounds are wonderfully maintained, with vast grassy areas and fields. The new Clarise Smith performing arts center nothing short of breathtaking, and judging from the schedule of plays and other events, the students are using it well. The athletic center is also new, with indoor/outdoor pools and tracks. Just amazing. The student body is diverse. Unless I am overlooking something, I don't find it bizarre at all that a New Yorker would find UMD appealing, especially over SUNY.</p>