Why is the media/public so quick to pick on "Tiger Parenting" in Asian families?

Parents Forum
181

There is a difference between encouraging the child who might be med school material to consider a career as a physician, and the “Asian F because i got a B in org” phenomenon. Hunt- I thought that’s what we were discussing.

There might be a lot of Jewish families with a lot of doctors, but there are lots of “sub groups” within the Jewish community where this pattern does NOT exist. Among Hasidim- where most (not all, but most) kids don’t go to college at all. Among second and third Gen Sephardim in the US- lower rates of college attendance (especially among females) than Ashkenazi families. Etc.

So I’d take issue with anyone who claimed that parents wanting their kids to become doctors is a universal Jewish cultural trait- it’s not, even though it might be among the subset of Jews that someone knows personally. I could point you to high schools in Lakewood NJ where Jewish kids don’t even take SAT’s, let alone prep for MCAT’s.

182

Who said that it is?

Me: I observe the following cultural pattern among some members of X group.
Somebody else: Not all members of X group exhibit that pattern.
Me: Yeah, but…

I understand this. I have, in the past, pointed out that not all Southerners are racists, and not all evangelical Christians believe that the world was created in six days six thousand years ago. But I don’t pretend that there isn’t some significant truth to both of those observations about elements of those groups.

183

Not all Southerners are racist. No argument from me. Where you would get into trouble (I think) would be the comparative “there is less racism in Idaho (not in the South) than in Alabama (in the South)” since all of the groups who track racist ideologies and violent hate groups highlight Idaho as being a particularly comfortable place for White Supremacists to hang out.

Similarly- describing “Asian” behaviors- whether culturally oriented or not, and comparing them to “other groups” with less or fewer of those behaviors is somewhat suspect (in my opinion) since in order for the comparison to be valid you’d need to get a LOT more specific than “Asian” or “Jewish” or even “Evangelical Christian”.

But I don’t argue with SOME of your observations.

184

Asia, from east to west, north to south, contains 60% of the world’s population. At some level, when Westeners were dividing the world in to the West and the Rest, Aisa got everyone who wasn’t on an easily dividable continent. It is the worst of stereotyping to throw all Asian-Americans in a category that includes Turks and Thais, Syrians and Siberiians, Koreans and Khazaks, Taiwanese and Tamils, etc.

This thread is bordering on racial anxiety (if not racism) about immigrant success.

185

I applaud the success of any race, ethnic group, or nationality which is able to move across the globe and figure out how to make it in a foreign environment and system. In my own (immigrant) family, the success varies tremendously person to person- motivation, ability to learn a new language, success at reading social cues in a sometimes hostile environment, flexibility- these play a huge role in looking at two siblings, both arriving in the US at similar ages but ending up in different places.

But I still maintain that Amy Chua needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. She tapped into something- that’s for sure- but in the same way that eating bread every day (like Oprah) isn’t going to work for everyone as a weight loss technique, forcing your kid to practice piano doesn’t mean he or she will end up at Harvard.

186

Oh here we go again. Can you really not conceive of the fact that some of us are perfectly secure about our children’s accomplishments and can make observations not motivated by anxiety, fear or racism? To say that having a population of tiger kids in a school can impact the admissions prospects of non-tiger kids is just plain true. My own kids are doing very well, so there’s no personal insecurity involved. It is, however, quite distressing to hear of smart, hard-working kids having meltdowns in school over a bad grade (meaning a B or C) because of what they know will be their parents’ severe reaction. It’s sad to hear them say they want to play the drums, but their parents want them to focus only on the cello, and so on.

187

Are you really going to suggest that someone named Chen is racist against Asian students? Yet check out his advice to them. If we are all just a bunch of anxious xenophobes, why is he saying the same thing we are? https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/2015/06/01/college-counselors-advise-some-asian-students-appear-less-asian/Ew7g4JiQMiqYNQlIwqEIuO/story.html

188

Oh, please. It’s just as much a stereotype to say that “immigrants are successful” (including “all” or “most” Asian immigrants) as it is to say that all or most of them are Tiger Parents.

It is true, statistically and probably for logical reasons, that some segments of some immigrants groups have been highly successful, often due to the effects of discrimination against them during various time periods and/or sheer determination/needing to make a living in a new land. (Survival) Pretty logical to me. Jews have been referenced here as well. One of the reasons Jews did so well in the early motion picture industry is that they were locked out of certain other professions at the time.

However, the vast majority of my East Asian and South Asian students (none from Syria, Turkey, Siberia, etc.) end up in public universities, just as the majority of Caucasian students do. And why? Because both are public college material, that’s why – sometimes fine public colleges, sometimes less fine publics. The difference between the two groups, however, is that the Asian groups somehow believe that it is “essential” or “necessary” to enroll in the Ivy League, Stanford, or MIT in order to achieve the same success that they, the parents achieved without a similar “name-brand” education. And THAT is not logical. No Caucasian parents I have ever met think that a “name-brand” education will make any significant difference in the eventual success of the child, because they understand that the employee is judged as an individual, not as a “member” of a school. That includes the Russians. The Russians get it, that it’s about the work product after school, the application of the schooling.

I don’t know where my Asian students will end up after college. I can just tell you that despite the great number of them I have seen, they are no more “stand-out,” as a group, and no less stand-out, as a group, than students of any other ethnic or national origins. The same percentage of exceptional students (truly intellectually gifted, truly of special character) exists within my Asian contingent as exists within the general high school population. IOW, small.

Importantly, also, the same range of personalities and preferences (academics, activities) exist within my Asian sample as exists. The difference is that in other populations there is significantly less pressure (less Tiger Parenting) to subdue a personality, to shape preferences, to manipulate a student’s priorities on the basis of parental assumptions.

The topic of this thread is not
Immigrant Success and the imagined, wished-for “jealousy” of non-immigrants about that

The topic of this thread is not
Parental “strictness”

The topic of this thread is
Tiger Parenting

At least, that’s what my computer screen says. Maybe I’d better bring my computer to the Genius Bar.

189

Epiphany hit the nail on the head. We are talking about the propensity of on population to “subdue a personality, to shape preferences, to manipulate a student’s priorities on the basis of parental assumptions.” This is the reason Chen needs to tell kids to play a different instrument or different sport than what they already do or had planned to. If kids were allowed to simply follow their preferences and if their parents had more diverse preferences and varying assumptions regarding what instruments and sports are “best,” then there’d be just as many Asian trumpet players as violinists, and just as many Asian soccer players as tennis players and the advice would be unnecessary.

190

We have never met but I am that parent. There should be many of us based on the number of White parents who are willing to shell out up to $280K for that education.

191

I think when most people talk about Asians, it’s easy enough from context to assume they mean Southeast Asians, or the group that includes China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc.

192

You’re right, CCDD14. I understated this. (Yes, I’m aware of the large White population at Harvard et al. LOL.) I shouldn’t have changed the words “necessary” and “essential” to “significant.” These three words are not equivalent. The element of panic is missing among my Caucasian contingent – over the last 10 years. That was my drift. And it’s contrary to the very history of the wildly successful parents, who achieved that wild success sans Harvard et al.

193

@epiphany I was joking, I know that you did not mean to go that far. But if my kid did not get into elite college I would be perfectly fine.

194

In the US, yes. Not necessarily in other parts of the world.

When one extended relative and his fiance were honeymooning in Kenya/East Africa in the '90s, they overheard much loud grumbling and even anger expressed about “Asians” from several locals including a few hosts at dinner and grew very nervous as they were both Asian-Americans.

When one of the hosts noticed my relatives’ visible apprehension, they clarified that Asians in common use in Kenya/East Africa usually referred to those from the Indian subcontinent, not East Asians as there’s been some social tensions between the multi-generational African locals and the South Asian minority and South Asian expats due to historical factors and popular local perceptions of them treating the former in a high-handed manner in business and social interactions.

This was later confirmed by a few college classmates and a colleague who grew up/attended K-12 in Kenya/East Africa.

195

The actual title of this thread is “Why is the media/public so quick to pick on “Tiger Parenting” in Asian families?” The OP was basically stating that there are pushy and even tiger parents in other non-Asian cultures. But somewhere down the posts, few started posting “but in my kids schools, there are MANY Asian kids who complain about bad grades and their parents… (not an exact quote but you get the message)” which were further followed by “there are many Asian parents who restrict their kids activities/hobbies to mold their kids in certain ways (again not exact quotes)”. This is when I started to voice my opinion to not generalize these small anecdotes to general Asian parents. But some have responded by saying “yea, but these are not baseless statements since I have personally witnessed them”, which is true but still invalid when one tries to make a blanket statement that implies (intentionally or unintentionally) this is a widespread problem in general Asian parents. I have no reason to defend an Asian Tiger parent if he/she is abusive to his/her kids. They should be pointed out and corrected for their abusive treatments.

196

Epiphany, I did not say all immigrants were successful. There is also plenty of anxiety about the lack of immigrant success, but it is not coming up in this discussion. What is coming up repeatedly in this long thread is the mantra that “Asian” kids are subdued and manipulated into the Ivies by being forced against their wills to play specific instruments.

What I am protesting is the framing, by you and others, of accusing “Asians” (tiger parents) of subduing and manipulating their children. You even write that white people arent’ like them. If you are comfortable with outrageous generalizations (stereotypes), I doubt that I can say or do anything to make you more reflective or sensitive.

197

Oops, typo in there. I meant "the framing, by you and others, of “Asians” (tiger parents) of subduing. . . ". The “aren’t” isn’t right either. Sorry, it is hard to work and keep up with my CC life, too.

198

"What I am protesting is the framing, by you and others, of accusing “Asians” (tiger parents) of subduing and manipulating their children. You even write that white people arent’ like them. If you are comfortable with outrageous generalizations (stereotypes), I doubt that I can say or do anything to make you more reflective or sensitive. "

But why are you protesting? Was it not enough to express your own view by writing "
This thread is bordering on racial anxiety (if not racism) about immigrant success."?

Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion about the subject and the way it has been debated in this thread, but I do not think you’re entitled to question the motives and accuracy of what others have written about their own experiences and what they witnessed in their own communities. This discussion, in my opinion, was about how some Asian parents approach college admissions, and has little to do with the Asian population in general. Is there a reason to consistently repeat that there is a difference between the Asians portrayed in Grand Torino and the ABC who made attending Harvard or Stanford an unending objective?

Parents who went through the process with kids in environment where top colleges are frequent subjects of discussion are not blind and deaf. If, along the way, they noticed the plight of Asian students, why should they pretend it does not exist in various degrees of what Amy Chua tried to sell as a battle hymn!

199

I live in a less affluent community than a lot of you guys based on your comments.

So c’mon down where there are just as many Asian slackers/non-achievers/drop-outs as there are Caucasian and African-American and everything else-- and their parents are just fine with it.

Come see the beautiful melting pot once you leave the uber-competitive suburbs where EVERYONE is gunning for something elite- regardless of your racial or ethnic identity- and see a school system where teachers beg parents to show up for back-to-school night, and where anyone who wants to can get into AP Bio.

I think a lot of you are confusing the Tiger phenomenon with what happens in an upper middle class enclave where super competitive parents view the number of seats at “elite” universities as a limited and scarce 'good" to be fought over. The kids in my town who happily head off to Keane College or Farleigh Dickinson or Western CT State would think you are nuts for perceiving a difference between the Asian kids and everyone else.

Don’t you guys know ANY HS kids who are happy to work at the mall after school so they can see their friends and get free piercings at the kiosk? They’re not practicing piano or playing tennis- they are hanging out after school and before their shift starts. And the discount they get at Abercrombie or wherever? priceless.

200

Relevant?

https://www.1843magazine.com/features/the-long-march-from-china-to-the-ivies