Why is the media/public so quick to pick on "Tiger Parenting" in Asian families?

[cobrat]

^ ^

Heh.

There were plenty of Asian slackers at my urban public magnet…I was certainly one of them and my HS GPA and probable standing in my HS graduating class reflected that.

Contrary to popular model-minority stereotype, I was also a bit of a troublemaker in early HS…sent down to the dean’s office* 4 times in my first semester in HS, multiple bad conduct references in the behavior section of my HS grade reports, and some teachers trying to get me to go back to my zoned neighborhood HS to no avail**.

• A result of my matching wits with a 9th grade teacher with whom I had a strong personality conflict partially because he was such a flaming sadistic jerk as illustrated by daily haranguing classmates to tears***, attempting to deny an older classmate the extra time on exams he was entitled to by state law on account of his documented disability until the state and city DOE had to order him to give him that extra time, etc.
  

The dean and I got to know each other very well that semester even if he felt the reasons why the teacher sent me down were so ridiculous he eventually sent me back up with a note telling him to not send me down to him anymore for such “minor” offenses.

** Ironically, some of those very teachers who had a justifiably horrid first impression of me ended up writing some of my best LORs for undergrad by late junior/early senior year.

*** Around a year ago, I found from a HS friend that a mutual friend of ours who is now on the tenure track at an elite college popular with CCers was so terrified of this very 9th grade teacher in a more advanced class he avoided coming to school for a few weeks and nearly dropped out before his parents lobbied the school to get him switched to another teacher. Unfortunately, since I was in the less advanced class and that jerky teacher was the only one teaching that course, I was stuck with him for 3 semesters. He also awarded me 0s each time as well.

[mamalion]

“I do not think you’re entitled to question the motives and accuracy of what others have written about their own experiences and what they witnessed in their own communities.”

Zeldie, I am required, not entitled, required to call out racism where I see it. People should not be generalizing from “their communities” to the 60% of the world’s population.

[Zeldie]

You might have a better point if that generalization occurred here.

[TheGFG]

We have parents of all backgrounds who are pushing their kids to do well, but the definition of “well” for the majority is a vague concept of the kid staying out of trouble, being engaged in a few activities and maybe excelling in one of them, getting decent grades, and eventually going off to college. In contrast, from what I have observed the East Asian parental idea of doing well is tied to more concrete measures such as finishing a more advanced Suzuki violin book than the other kids his age, being placed in a highest possible math level, getting the 1st singles spot, and going off to Columbia or Princeton.

[user0509]

@TheGFG You are completely correct-- the East Asian parental idea of doing “well” is definitely more concrete.

To answer @cowtownbrown /the post’s question: Yes, tiger parenting is an issue particularly for the Asian community because the parenting from MOST Asian-American parents are 10x harsher than that of East European and Nigerian parents.

Growing up as an Asian-American, I have been verbally and physically abused by my parents my whole life. This was not only abuse done to get straight A’s in school, but abuse done as a result of the East Asian concept of the child having to obey the parent 100%. Asian-American parents, especially Asian-American immigrant parents, do not leave room for the child to feel free. There is forced hours of piano practice, forced hours of studying, and a high emphasis on getting into Harvard, Stanford, and the Ivies.
I am NOT the only Asian-American to have experienced tiger parenting. I have grew up surrounfed by Asian family friends and classmates, and I know that most of the Asian parents have, sadly, exerted tiger parenting onto their children.

Tiger parenting is not something that SOME Asian parents implement. It is something that MOST Asian parents implement, and that is in no way racist because that is fact and that is undeniable.

Of course there are Asian parents who are not tiger parents, but the majority most certainly are.

[epiphany]

you are comfortable with outrageous generalizations (stereotypes), I doubt that I can say or do anything to make you more reflective or sensitive.

And apparently I can’t make you a better critical thinker, because it has nothing to do with being reflective and even less with being sensitive. When faced with a contest between

the heartbreaking accounts from my students of parents who destroyed their art work in front of the student’s eyes… of students telling me that they chose drawing over painting – even though painting was a first love – because they could quickly hide their dry drawings but not their paints and brushes, whenever their parents entered their rooms…of hearing about parents who took their children’s paintings, threw them on the floor, stepped on them, or tore them up…of students having to wait until their parents are on a short walk in order to play their instruments.

and your comments, including your failure to understand that there are just as many stereotypes (generalizations often true) about White parents, a reality I have mentioned several times on this thread,

…there is no contest between who exactly is more sensitive and reflective.

But keep denying. It all fits in with the political correctness that one must never even examine whether any member of “a minority group” is anything but spotless. May I remind you, I was not the one who started this thread, but God help anyone who in the least bit acknowledges some truth to the premise of the thread.

Have a nice day.

[Anamgol]

@user0509 First of all, I am very sorry to hear that you had to go through very traumatic childhood experience due to your tiger parents. But when you make such broad and blanket statements such as “because the parenting from MOST Asian-American parents are 10x harsher than that of East European and Nigerian parents” and “Tiger parenting is not something that SOME Asian-American parents implement. It is something that MOST Asian-American parents implement.”, I cannot agree with you. How many Asian parents do you know that are tiger parents out of more than millions of Asian parents in the US? Do you have any statistics to back these statements or are you just making these broad assumptions as facts based on your own and your friends’ experiences? In contrast to your own experiences, my own experiences tell me that most Asian parents are not tiger parents but very similar to other non-Asian parents. None of my Asian friends force their kids to play instruments, sports or place at local and national competitions.

[TheGFG]

Are you Indian, Anamgol? I would say that the vast majority of immigrant Chinese parents in our area are tiger parents. In the Indian community I’ve noticed more diversity. Certainly there are a large number of Indian tiger parents, but I have met some who are relaxed about achievement and academics. The parenting style seems tied to their social class. However, I have never met an immigrant Chinese parent here who would not qualify as a tiger parent.

[epiphany]

I am going to go back to the OP, because I think this is the source of some of the derailment on this thread.

So I read an article about the dangers and woes of Asian parenting styles and how horrible they are and can be for children. But I want to know why they focus so much on Asian families? Many other cultures and households have the same/similar standards for their kids. My parents have very strict rules for me and my siblings and have never allowed us to spend the night at someone else’s house, watch TV, get poor grades etc and this is what I would call the norm for most Eastern European families and many religious families. So why do they pick on Asians specifically when this is a very common practice in white families too?

The OP is confusing “strictness” with so-called Tiger Parenting, And in itself, I maintain that even TP is a term over which people, both Asians and non-, disagree.

My parents were ultra-strict. As to my own parenting, my younger daughter once resentfully referred to me as “the second most strict parent in the class; only [insert name of only Korean in very white class]'s parents are as strict.”

Growing up, I was literally “not allowed” to get B’s. Apparently being 4th in a class of 156 at a demanding private school was insufficient. I received exactly one B – in an ultra-tough Chem class whose teacher literally wrote the textbook. It was taken at the speed of current AP Classes, and there was zero hand-holding. I was very proud of that B+ (it actually was) and awaited my father’s approval, but none was forthcoming. His comment: “Next time, erase that B.”

One reason I get along so well with Asian parents in my work is that I share their high standards and they respect me for it. However, I do not approve of killing the artistic dreams of children, and that is something my own parents never would have done. Like all of us parents, they made other mistakes, but even they would have recognized that the kinds of episodes I’ve posted about twice now were entirely uncalled for (destructive).

Russian families have the same tendencies pointed out in the article and I know my Nigerian friends have discussed that this is how their families are too, including the “you are shaming us by getting anything less than the best grade/score/award” clause.

Not in my experience do Russians “have the same tendencies.” They have very high standards, yes. I simply have not witnessed them reacting so viscerally and punitively to extracurricular pursuits. (Prior to 2 years ago I also had more Russian students.)

Answering the OP more constructively, I think that cultures outside of the U.S. are, in general, less lazy – particularly those cultures which have made their home here over the last several decades, much to the enrichment of this country. There is a truth to the stereotype of “lazy,” and unfortunately it is very much fed by the public education system in this country – a system which too often caters to that laziness, coddles it, enables it, even sometimes rewards it. There’s nothing in such a trend to praise. And I agree with the OP (if that was what the OP was implying) on the value of shame. Shame is a big no-no in much of public education, but one thing that shame does is to acknowledge a moral good (and a moral evil) in the first place.

[Anamgol]

@TheGFG
No, I said in the above thread that I am a Korean-American. And most of my Asian friends that I described so far are Korean-Americans and some first generation Koreans. And I will say again that none of my friends fit the description of a Tiger parent. Your blanket statement " However, I have never met an immigrant Chinese parent here who would not qualify as a tiger parent." not only sound ridiculous but very misinformed.

As epiphany said above, being a strict parent is not what most of us (myself included) on this thread are defining as a Tiger parent. Amy Chau is a TP, who forced her daughters to practice piano for 6 hrs without allowing them to use the bathroom (if true). Another poster described a white Jewish father who takes his son to another sporting practice after 4h of practice. Do you see the difference? I am very curious to know how you would know if all of the immigrant Chinese parents you met are TP? Did you spend even more than 10 min with all of these immigrant Chinese parents? These kinds of blanket statements are what I am really opposing in this thread.

[mathyone]

" Another poster described a white Jewish father who takes his son to another sporting practice after 4h of practice. Do you see the difference?" Yes, I do. There is potentially a huge difference. You are assuming the kid was dragged kicking and screaming to the next practice. Exactly this kind of thing happens in my own extended family and the parents could not be farther from tiger. The kid loves sports.

[Anamgol]

@mathyone The above post about a Jewish father was from a poster who specifically stated that he was a tiger dad. I nor the poster was talking about a kid who willingly spends hours on the field. So, please don’t think that I or other posters are blind to the obvious difference of kids who loves sport vs. kids who are dragged from one to another. And I forgot to mention about the TP example given by epiphany about Asian parents who throw or rip the drawings/painting of their kids. That is another good example of a Tiger Parent and a behavior that is not condoned by the MOST or MANY Asian parents.

[user0509]

@Anamgol Thank you, but I want to clarify a part of what I mean. You said, “None of my Asian friends force their kids to play instruments, sports or place at local and national competitions.”

When I talk about Asian parents being tiger parents, that doesn’t mean they always force their kids to play instruments, compete in sports, etc. I’m talking about academics, but mostly: taking away the child’s independence, confidence, and freedom.

Most Asian parents are called tiger parents because of the constant pressure they put the child under and the perfectionism mindset (all A’s, it’s Ivy League school or nothing) that they ingrain into the child’s head. It’s not always about sports and national competitions. Tiger parenting, from most Asian parents, comes down to one thing that is most harmful and terrible for the child: destroying the child’s confidence.

This is a pattern seen among many Asian parents in their parenting, from Amy Chua’s forcing and awful treatment of her children (throwing her daughter out into the cold because her daughter was misbehaving, rejecting her daughter’s birthday card, having a total lack of empathy, etc.) to the typical Asian parent who demands obedience at all times from their child. Asian parents command obedience to the extreme, where the child’s freedom is completely stripped away. The child must listen to their parent at all costs. The child must practice piano. The child must excel in school. The child must get into an Ivy League school, or they are a “disgrace” and a shame to the family. The child must never talk back to the parent. The child must never feel, in any way, equal or above the parent. THAT stripping of confidence is what I mean by tiger parenting.

Hopefully that makes sense. What I am trying to say is that tiger parenting is not all about sports. It’s not ALL about academics either. At the heart of it-- and why it remains such a big problem-- is that, unintentionally or intentionally, it strips the child of utter confidence.

You ask me where the evidence is. Look at the Asian stereotypes: Asians are good at math, Asians wear glasses, Asians are shy, Asians are quiet, Asians are submissive, Asians are gamers.

The stereotypes that Asians are submissive and shy exist for a reason. It’s not a mere coincidence that there are stereotypes that many Asians you meet today tend to be more shy and more “submissive” than whites or blacks or any other race.

Why are they shy and submissive? Why does this stereotype exist?

Because most of them lack confidence. And this lack of confidence is the direct result of their parents’ tiger parenting.

Why is there a stereotype that Asians are video gamers?

Again, because most of them lack confidence. If you read psychology studies on the mindsets of those who are heavy video gamers or video game addicts, you will find that the underlying problem these people (not all, but of many video game addicts) face is that they are trying to escape from reality through video games. Video games are pleasurable because they win awards and achievements in the game, which is rewarding for their confidence. They cannot ever get that sense of pride and achievement from their tiger parents because their parents drill perfectionism into them and make them feel that they are and never will be good enough.

At the heart of tiger parenting, lies the issue of raising children who grow up with very low confidence.

[TheGFG]

No, you are sounding ridiculous, Anamgol. My supposed “blanket statement” is about my personal experiences, of which you know nothing.

[Anamgol]

@user0509 I don’t even know where to start but I will give it a try. Do you want to know why many Asians are considered to be shy and submissive (according to you but I strongly disagree)? It is certainly true in Asia (China, Korea, Japan, etc) and to lesser extent in the US and it stems from very old traditions that a person must be humble, polite, respect elders, and never intentionally harm others. But Asians are NOT shy or introverted because they lack confidence. And contrary to what you may believe, most of Asian parents I know do not put constant pressure on their kids to succeed in academics, sports, music and destroy our kids confidence. In fact, in the last 20 years or so, it’s been openly debated among Korean parents and in the Korean media about many of the new generation of Korean parents (in Korea and in the US) who are so conscious of protecting their kids pride and confidence that they seldom punish or discipline their kids, leading to the generation of entitled and spoiled Korean kids. And video gamers??? I won’t even go there.

[TheGFG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xz05GUU9I0

I suppose these kids are racist or uninformed about their own lives too?

[Anamgol]

@TheGFG Of course I know nothing about your personal experiences (I never claimed to), but when you make such ridiculous statement as “I have never met an immigrant Chinese parent here who would not qualify as a tiger parent.”, I need to make my point. And I think that many would agree that that was a ridiculous statement.

And if you base your opinion about a group of people from Youtube videos, enough said…

[88jm19]

@TheGFG said:

Oh here we go again. Can you really not conceive of the fact that some of us are perfectly secure about our children’s accomplishments and can make observations not motivated by anxiety, fear or racism? To say that having a population of tiger kids in a school can impact the admissions prospects of non-tiger kids is just plain true. My own kids are doing very well, so there’s no personal insecurity involved. It is, however, quite distressing to hear of smart, hard-working kids having meltdowns in school over a bad grade (meaning a B or C) because of what they know will be their parents’ severe reaction.

Epiphany hit the nail on the head. We are talking about the propensity of on population to “subdue a personality, to shape preferences, to manipulate a student’s priorities on the basis of parental assumptions.” This is the reason Chen needs to tell kids to play a different instrument or different sport than what they already do or had planned to. If kids were allowed to simply follow their preferences and if their parents had more diverse preferences and varying assumptions regarding what instruments and sports are “best,” then there’d be just as many Asian trumpet players as violinists, and just as many Asian soccer players as tennis players and the advice would be unnecessary.

Can you admit that not all Asian parents are Tiger parents?
Can you acknowledge that drawing conclusions concerning Asian parents is racial stereotyping?

People are not assuming you are motivated by “anxiety, fear or racism”, yet you, yourself, adamantly assert that it is undeniable that tiger kids can affect admission prospects of non-tiger kids.

I have difficulty understanding how a person can be so distressed by the pressure placed on Tiger-kids and yet oblivious, or consciously less empathetic, with the non-Tiger Asian parents and their children who are being hurt by these stereotypes.

@epiphany posted: And apparently I can’t make you a better critical thinker, because it has nothing to do with being reflective and even less with being sensitive.

and this

But keep denying. It all fits in with the political correctness that one must never even examine whether any member of “a minority group” is anything but spotless.

I think you are being rude. Perhaps I have missed the post where someone is denying the existence of Tiger parenting in Asian households. Maybe someone said they think Tiger parenting is a good thing. I think not.

Tiger parenting probably does subdue and manipulate the growth of a child. (My heartfelt thoughts are with @user0509.) Tiger parenting does exist.

@epiphany @TheGFG Your critics are not taking issue with those points. The issue and the part you are missing with your critical thinking skills is that you are condoning a racial stereotype. It’s not a question of being politically correct. Go ahead. Call out and offend those who Tiger Parent. It is a question of challenging you in your mischaracterization of many Asian parents. Perhaps you should re-read the OP comment.

OP here:

To be honest, I do think that Asian parents are being vilified upon closer inspection. I realize that the way my parents has raised me is socially acceptable, because they appear White, however, my Asian friends have their families criticized for the same parenting policies. (at least in my circle) That’s not ok.

Additionally, my Asian friends are now achievers because they are Asian. Because they simply must have “tiger” parents. Not because they have worked incredibly hard or because they love what they pursue but simply because they are Asian and their parents have forced them. In this same way, my Asian friends who are not so academically inclined are ridiculed as being dumb “for an Asian” even when their grades are just average. The expectation that they should be smart both diminishes the accomplishments of my high achieving friends and puts unrealistic and damaging expectations on my friends who are just getting through school as they will. This is racism and it’s really easy to overlook because I think it’s easy to forget that Asians are a minority too. Saying an Asian is an achiever because they are Asian is the same as saying a Black student got in because they were black. It is demeaning their achievements by attributing them to their race and that is really not cool.

Tiger Parenting is abusive. However, an Asian parent who has a high stat child who plays tennis and/or the violin is not necessarily a Tiger Parent.

I close with this quote by Alan Alda. “Begin challenging your own assumptions. Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in while, or the light won’t come in.”

[TheGFG]

No, I don’t think it’s ridiculous. I have lived 25 years in a community with a high percentage of Asian immigrants and have interacted with them in a variety of parenting contexts through our kid’s EC’s (Odyssey of the Mind, scouting, band, chorus, etc.) Their behavior, attitudes and topics of conversation are a window into their world view and parenting style. In addition, my children have spent 7 hours daily with mostly Asian classmates and have heard many, many stories and have seen their tears and fears. Some of these children have been to my home for school group projects and there again we hear the comments about what their parents will or won’t let them do, and what they are forced to do. But don’t take my word for it. Watch the video I posted. There are plenty more like that.

[user0509]

@Anamgol There were not many Koreans in the schools I attended growing up and the one or two Koreans I do know seem to be very “Americanized” and confident and their parents seem easygoing. I’m not focusing on just Koreans though. I’m talking about East Asians as a whole.

I can attest that most East Asian parents on the whole are tiger parents. Most Asian teenagers I have met in my life are shy and what society would call “submissive”. This is largely due to a lack of confidence.

I don’t know about Korean-Americans. I don’t want to focus on only Korean-Americans. And you’re probably right that their parents are more easygoing. I would assume you know more about Korean-Americans than I do, as you are Korean-American yourself and said you know many Korean-Americans.

However, we’re talking East Asians as a whole.

@TheGFG 's statement cannot be deemed “a ridiculous statement” because that is what he experienced. Just because he truly, genuinely has never met an immigrant Chinese parent who would not qualify as a tiger parent (by the way, his statement applies to me as well), does not mean that he is lying, or that he is exaggerating, or that it is a generally “ridiculous statement”.
What can the guy say? That is simply what he has seen and experienced.

As for evidence, I will be researching and pulling up statistics to prove that most Asian immigrant parents implement tiger parenting.