Isn’t the person who is lecturing others not to judge, in fact judging those very people they are lecturing?
I haven’t read the whole 23 page thread, but I am going to say perhaps you can lay some of the blame at the feet of the “tiger parent” asian mother who splashed herself all over the media promoting her book for perpetuating a stereotype…
@QuantMech Haha! No. It was from the article. I just like how the story shows how we don’t always know everything. Stay open minded. Things aren’t always what they seem to be.
@whatisyourquest As the article states we all make judgments. I know I do too. Nowhere did I mean to imply that we can’t make judgements based on our own value system. We all do. The world would be a boring place if we agreed on everything. However, I do assert that making judgments based upon racial stereotyping is hurtful, unfair and has negative consequences. I’ll even say it reflects poorly on those who insist on propagating it.
As for judges I always thought they interpret laws. When they make a judgment I thought they do so, in respect to whether a law has been broken, thereby defining it. I don’t know. I’m not a lawyer or a judge.
@whatisyourquest You asked me “Where do YOU draw the line?” I am not trying to define “the line”. What I was attempting to do was to bring some awareness…not change your opinion. I agree Tiger Parenting is bad.
@jym626 I don’t feel like I lectured others “not to judge”, but cautioned judging based on racial stereotyping. Look at the post again. I shared an article that said some things I happen to agree with, when it comes to judging others. If it hit a nerve, think about it. 
Anyway, I’ve said my piece and have preparations for Easter to do. I’m also writing this while watching a hockey game. (Hawks, not Caps…lol) Have a good discussion. 
Good night to you all.
You have “said your piece” by posting a condescending, patronizing post. It was not about the topic but about the posters. Its all in how posts are viewed by others. Yes, think about it. It’s not nice to chide others. They are entitled to their opinions.
I have not read the 23 pages of posts so apologies if already discussed or commented upon but my son competes in many math tournaments and other academic tournaments and these are typically dominated by Asians (he also attends a charter school which is about 50% Asian). I suspect the reason the “public” singles out the Asians is due to their success and a little bit of jealousy.
My wife’s white friends certainly comment about those poor kids, etc but our experience has been these kids are hard-working and happy. They do not spend as much time watching TV and playing video games as many,
Jym626, Many in this discussion do not think a parent can appropriately (or legally) decide against vaccination; it destroys the wellbeing of others. Many of us do not think people can appropriately (or legally) stereotype; it destroys the wellbeing of others.
To protect the values of our county, we are obligated to speak out on vaccination and stereotyping. They are not simply “opinions,” but dangerous, hurtful practices
Now I have to celebrate Easter.
I am not sure I understand why you are referencing me in a discussion about the antivaxxers, mamalion. Don’t see that as related to the chiding post of 88jm19. Many, including me, strongly disagree with the antivaxxers. But I suppose they are entitled to their opinion, even if most folks consider that opinion dangerous and ignorant.
Stop it already. I have children who are BOTH successful AND happy, as I know is true of many parents on CC. While I don’t speak for “the public” as some amorphous mass, I am not jealous of any parents or their children, whatever the personal origins. I strive to make sure, in my work, that my own students, who are overwhelmingly Asian, are pursuing paths that will tend both to their success and their happiness. Given the frequent opposition I face from some of their parents, that is not an easy task.
The last thing I would be is “jealous” of anyone who sacrificed happiness for success.
The topic of this thread was not “Alternatives to Tiger Parenting that Work.” So to castigate posters for not offering constructive parenting suggestions is a huge red herring. Quite a few people did attempt to answer the actual question posed in the title. The problem was that others didn’t much like the answers given. Therefore, I am quite sure those same individuals who were upset with the responses would even more strongly object to a thread in which non-Asians now posted “advice” to Asians on how to parent differently. Why on earth would anyone offer suggestions when the most vocal Asians on the thread have claimed that neither they themselves nor any of their friends are Tiger Parents and that the stereotype is wrong and rooted in racism and jealousy? I’m sorry, but for there to be a need for constructive suggestions, wouldn’t you first have to first admit there’s a problem? I haven’t seen the problem acknowledged yet by those who now say they’d prefer “solutions and parenting tips” or an end to stereotyping.
I wish posters on this thread would stop equating race and culture. They are not the same thing. People who frown upon certain practices of certain Asian subcultures are not saying that they frown upon all Asians, all Asian cultures (of which there are many), or even everything about the subcultures in question.
It would be nice in the attacks on Asians were as nuanced as to be “frowning” on “certain practices” of “certain Asian subcultures.” I have seen too much China bashing on this thread to read it your way, Consolation. Ethnicity, race, and culture are all tied together in stereotyping. Example: Jews were characterized by a culture of avarice that was somehow genetic. It would be nice if these differences were being laid out.
The original question (inevertantly) gives permission to focus on Asian families as the only population targeted. It probably set up a bad trajectory, whatever the original intent and probably should just be abandoned.
Diversity is viewed very positively by many people in the US. This is certainly true of college administrators. Bringing different perspectives to the class room is seen as intrinsically healthy for the education of all.
However, diversity has no meaning if there aren’t collectively certain characteristics (viewpoints, belief systems, behavioral patterns, lifestyles, etc.) that are generally inherent within the distinct ethnic, racial, and cultural groups.
If there are truly no relevant distinctions between these groups, such that all characteristics are randomly distributed throughout society, then I really don’t see the point of taking ethnicity, race, or culture into account during college admissions.
I don’t agree, but IMHO this is the conclusion that one must logically draw if one rejects that we all are, at least in many respects, the product of our ethnicity, race, or culture.
You don’t like someone taking something that might apply to some people and generalizing to an entire population? Neither do I. Imagine that.
My point is, it doesn’t matter whether we agree if aggressive parenting behaviors are exclusive to Asian families. Even if all agree that Asians alone are the problem, this conversation is a pointless exercise. I don’t know how much venting is necessary to assuage those who feel the world is harmed by Asian parents. Once the urge to shame Asians is satisfied, does this conversation have another, more useful purpose?
It will come as news to Indians (of whom there are numerous subcultures), Bangladeshis, Hmong, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean, and many other peoples that their “race” is the same as the Chinese and that their culture is identical, too, because they are all “Asian.”
BTW, my answer to the original question is that Amy Chua wrote a highly provocative and well-publicized book coining–AFAIK, because I had never heard it before–the term “tiger parent.”
FWIW, my personal friends who fall within the blanket designation of “Asian” aren’t tiger parents in the least, nor did my son’s GF from Mainland China show any signs of having been raised by “tiger parents,” despite the fact that her parents are accomplished professionals at home. I don’t like stereotypes and generalizations either.
No, that’s not what I was addressing, and since it’s obvious you haven’t read my posts about Whites, go back and read them if you want to have an actual conversation with someone instead of a snipe-fest. I did and do make legitimate generalizations that are not equivalent to universal statements. There’s quite a difference. But it’s not a very credible position, as some others have pointed out, to act so frightened of noticing observable trends. Every culture has them; every country can be characterized by certain common attitudes or behaviors. That there is a neutral statement in itself, but no culture is immune from criticism, including if that is a minority culture. It’s not sacrosanct to be “a minority,” but that’s the meme here.
I was not addressing any of that in the post you answered in a snarky way. I was addressing the self-flattering assumption (corresponding to the concept of “sacrosanct” and beyond criticism) that anyone who actually notices negative aspects within a particular culture must be “jealous.” No, the last thing I am is jealous, but that reality is unacceptable to you. I get that.
Once again, I have an entirely different take on this topic.
Anyone read Randall Collins’ The Credential Society? It was published in 1979. He showed that the expansion in education in the 19th century was not driven by economic demand but by the elites of the time to monopolize the best jobs for their offspring. In short, while paying lip service to the meritocratic ideal, spiraling credential requirements were used to advantage those with the most.
This worked well until new challengers start to show up- the Jews and the Asians- challengers who are willing to make enormous sacrifices for their children and grandchildren. Then holistic admission was invented. Brilliant.
I see a lot of fear here. When it comes to our personal self-interest, and the interest of our progenies, we can be totally tribal.
I am not suggesting that we all behave this way, but I think most do.
Coincidentally, I picked up the August 2014 issue of Psychology Today while waiting at the doctor’s office the other day. In it, there is an article titled “What Parents Get Wrong” which gets to the heart of what motivates parents to do what they do. The gist of it was this: parents have a self-serving bias that extends to their children that is highly idealized and overly optimistic.
According to Judith Rich Harris author of The Nurture Assumption: Why Children Turn Out the Way they Do, most of us believe we are special in some way that we possess qualities that set us apart in some special way and this extends to how we view our children. Much of childhood is used by the parent to bear this out. Another psychologist quoted in the article says, “they think their kids are smarter than they really are and probably more attractive than they really are.”
What’s more, psychologist Jay Belsky of UC Davis says, “We have this misguided notion in Western culture, and certainly in Western psychology that parents invariably, unconditionally, and indisputably love their children and devote themselves to them… when in fact the evolutionary analysis is that children are investments that parents make, perhaps unknowingly, as a function of the return they might get on those children.” Perhaps, as suggested by the work cited by @Canuckguy , the “return on investment” is power and influence.
It seems our motivations for making the choices we make about our children are entirely driven by our need for affirmation (“my child is smart!” “my child is attractive!” “successful progeny = more power and influence for my family” etc…).
I think aggressive parenting is an unhealthy extension of this. But I think all parents demonstrate this evolutionary urge so it seems to false to assign moral superiority to those who hold it in check. Maybe those who hold it in check do so for equally base & selfish reasons (so as to not appear common, or to demonstrate a superiority based on “natural talent” rather than “aggressive parenting.” Of course, there are parents who don’t bother trying to keep it in check at all. LOL.
Because Asian families have a strong work ethic and children that excel. (short answer) This is in general…as my awesome college roommate who is Chinese would say…when they saw her in class they assumed she was the one breaking the curve when in reality all she was “too American” to fit the mold. She used to laugh and say that she was in the drill team and wore makeup while her cousins were making straight A’s and playing the piano and violin. Seriously, many of the attributes of Asian families are so wonderful. In general my Asian friends had tight-knit families that respected their grandparents, took school seriously and were hard-working. I know they may get the rep of being too rigid but I was impressed with my friends’ abilities.
I’m sorry, but I have to call baloney on this complaint. Several of us have repeatedly focused on culture, not race or genetics. I don’t think anybody has focused on race or genetics at all in this discussion. A cultural norm is not a stereotype–if it’s accurately described.
Of course, we need caveats, and there have been plenty in this conversation. Thus, one could say “Christians eat lamb on Easter.” Probably too broad. Better would be, “Many Christians eat lamb on Easter,” or “Eating lamb on Easter is a tradition among many Christian groups.” The fact that some Christians don’t eat lamb on Easter doesn’t alter the fact that this is a genuine cultural norm.