Now I’m confused. I want to make sure I don’t disagree with myself.
@hunt, you almost hit it the first time.
I don’t think non-white people look at drunken unruly Caps fans and say “Typical white people”. They may think “typical white drunken Caps fans” but that’s about it. I don’t think anyone would even make the remark about all the drunken, unruly Caps fans pretty much being all white - that goes too far (where are nonwhite hockey fans). But there may be some resentment that drunken unruly white Caps fans can be drunk and unruly without incident but some non-whites feel they cannot.
“But there may be some resentment that drunken unruly white Caps fans can be drunk and unruly without incident but some non-whites feel they cannot.”
Drunken, unruly white Caps fans who cause trouble, bother others on the subway, etc are trash. So are unruly people of any color. What’s so hard about this?
Nothing is hard about it - it’s your opinion, PG and you are welcome to it.
But it’s also not hard to recognize that the police (and passenger) response to the two groups will likely be different.
I think that is what slackermommd is getting at.
What’s your basis for thinking that? I’ve certainly known white people who said such things about black people after observing a black person misbehaving.
Precisely. Zero data. Sheer (negative) speculation based on private opinion.
I’m sure we all have.
You mean, other than me being a non-white person (Asian)? I dunno. I ride the Metro with other non-whites (Asian, African Americans) friends and general riders. We have run into drunken white people coming from various sports or other events. No one has ever said to me (or the general riders) “All those drunken unruly {caps} fans are mostly white!” My metro stop isn’t in a particularly white area - riders after a certain point are a very mixed crowd, with the bulk being African American. The riders chat and one or two may remark on bad behavior by a particular group of passengers but it’s not usually generalized to a broader population.
But hey, thanks for letting me have an opinion.
"I remember an elementary Christmas concert. While the family waited for the big brother to perform, the mother drilled the 7 year old on multiplication and division facts. Over and over, the little sister never got to play with her friends. We all got to see the tiger mother prove the brilliance of her cub.
The family was white. Those evil white people forcing their children to perform in public. I can’t imagine how those kids were treated at home, but I can tell you that I discouraged my girls from being friends with such a family."
Great, but how would you react to a similar story posted by about a family of Asians? Pretty predictable what your answer will be!
I was mimicking the post, just before my post, told about an Asian family. Read in context!!!
Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, that Asian families are, in fact the worst offenders (or the most likely offenders or the only offenders) when it comes to aggressive parenting in education. So, what now? Once we establish that it’s an Asian problem, where does this conversation advance from here?
Calling out a particular racial group for aggressive parenting is an unproductive exercise. Some of the posts on this thread have been enlightening – for the wrong reasons. Instead of insightful or constructive discussion, this thread has disintegrated into hypocritical, contemptuous, even xenophobic commentary. How to engage with posters whose only contribution to the conversation is to repeatedly pin the problem on a culture that is coincidentally not their own? Instead of condescending an entire race for “doing it wrong” can we instead talk about solutions, share parenting tips that helped your children become well-adjusted successful adults? We probably have much more in common with each other as parents than we realize.
As with breast-feeding, home-schooling, vaccination or stay-at-home-mothering – let’s stop judging parents for the choices they make in the interests of their child. I believe most parents are trying their best. No one is intentionally setting out to create maladjusted children. We all make mistakes. Even Chua admits to learning from her many mistakes. There are no perfect parents, no matter the race.
"As with breast-feeding, home-schooling, vaccination or stay-at-home-mothering – let’s stop judging parents for the choices they make in the interests of their child. "
Oh, I WILL judge those who refuse to vaccinate. Harshly. The others fall under personal choice/taste/preference.
^ with pg on that one.
PragmaticMom, our society cannot allow certain family practices as a matter of child welfare; there are other practices that we probably should not accept. On everything else, I go for “live and let live.”
We cannot allow child abuse. None of Chua’s actions as described in her book are at this level.
But then there are practices that we as a society can allow, but probably should not accept. In these cases, I think that there should be a lot of discussion about why we think the practice is wrong, and what alternatives are better. A number of Chua’s actions (as described in her book) fall into this category. Since Chua has said that she would raise her daughters in the same way if she had it to do all over again, I am honestly uncertain how much she has learned from her mistakes.
I do not generalize based on race, in discussing practices that could better be done without. The focus ought to be on specific practices themselves, and whether they ought to be discouraged, regarded neutrally, or encouraged. On this point, I agree with PragmaticMom, that it would be a great idea to talk about solutions and share parenting tips.
To take the example of breast feeding: Generally, that is better for the health of the child, when it can be managed. However, there are some cases where it would not be better for the health of the child (e.g., the case of a friend who contracted C. difficile while in the hospital delivering her child; but she was so committed to breast feeding that she pumped and discarded breast milk for several months until the infection had cleared up, and then she was able to breast feed). There are cases where a mother is unable to breast feed, due to not producing sufficient milk. There are other cases where a mother is unable to breast feed because her work takes her away from her child, and she does not have an opportunity to pump breast milk while at work. Some mothers may just not want to breast feed. I think it is best to make sure that women know about the advantages of breast feeding, and then leave the decision to the individual.
With regard to vaccination, I agree with PG. A person who does not have children vaccinated endangers other people.
Thanks to previous posters who linked to apa studies, I learned that many immigrant and first gens are getting counseling and changing their destructive behaviors and that their children are benefitting. College students are also benefitting from counseling and will hopefully not repeat the patterns of their parents. Of course there’s no guarantee that they won’t pick up equally bad behaviors in college
I did not read the book but have heard her speak. Nevertheless, the experiences I recounted earlier in the thread, do, i.m.o., amount to abuse, and I am not a reactionary in that regard but someone who very much supports the rights of parents with regard to their own authority. I have not listed all of the examples; some were more extreme than others.
I was wondering why this thread has been bothering me. I agree with @PragmaticMom who posted:
Frankly, I have had trouble understanding those who want to keep the racial stereotype going. Then I continued reading PragmaticMom’s post:
My initial reaction was “YES”! That’s what has been bothering me about some of these ‘could be perceived as Asian-bashing’ posts. People judging other people’s parenting based on a stereotype! So I began to think about why we, as humans, like to judge others and what we can do about it.
Here’s a story I found interesting, because it illustrates how impressions can change when we get outside of ourselves and our own biases.:
The title of the article is “10 Reasons to Stop Judging People”.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/living-the-questions/201410/10-reasons-stop-judging-people
My favorite line is the last one.
88jm19, I don’t think you were intending to analogize excessively harsh parents to dogs with one of their legs caught in a trap . . .
But, when it comes to that, I do feel some sympathy for Chua because she was pretty clearly raised in a harsh and demanding fashion, which she passed along.
I try not to judge people, but I don’t have trouble judging some of their actions.
88jm19, there is an occupation called judge; they are elected or appointed. These officials pass judgments. Do you not think that anyone, including those on the SCOTUS, have a right to judge anything?
“And finally, remember that judging a person does not define who they are, it defines who you are.”
Please be more circumspect. If you do agree that these officials have the right to judge people, laws, etc. is this mental capacity entirely limited to this small subset of individuals? Why can’t ordinary citizens make judgments based on their life experiences? Please explain where you personally draw the line.