<p>Okay, I have generally believed in (and have seen consensus on this site for) the concept of the student making his/her own decision about which college to attend. But I want to do a gut-check on this premise (as it relates to our situation) and get some thoughts from others. We let our oldest son choose his college (large state flagship) and it was a disaster. Middle son is now considering his options, and, for illustration, his top 3 (out of many options) are likely to be, say, Samford, SMU and Clemson -- which obviously are very different, in many ways. We thought #1 son would be more likely (in comparison to #2 son) to successfully handle the big school environment, and that didn't work out at all, so we have heightened concerns about letting #2 son decide. We think he has the smarts to handle any of the 3, and money is not an issue (yes, we are paying), and, importantly, he likes each of the 3. But we, as parents, feel he will have a much better chance for success at a smaller school, such as Samford. (Note that while we like the Christian aspect of Samford, that is not the focus of the equation -- we could just as readily substitute Furman, which he also has on his list.) He is a kid who is likely to get "lost" at a big school, and he struggles with avoiding partying temptations, which will be much more prevalent at Clemson than at Samford. In an ideal world, he will come to the conclusion on his own that is consistent with his parents' view. But what if he wants Clemson and we think it is just flat wrong for him? I mean, he is a legal adult, but what were you thinking when you were 18? (I know some 18 year olds are more mature and prudent than others -- our 18 year old boy is probably not too high up on that list.) Do we let him decide even though we think it won't work out and then we, and he, will get to chalk up another "life lesson"; or, if push comes to shove, do we tell him he's going to Samford (or Furman) and risk some mild resentment initially but which we think he'll thank us for later? And did I mention, he likes all 3 schools (so that might mitigate the "forced" aspect, if it comes to that). Thoughts and advice, please?</p>
<p>I hope that you are talking to him about your concerns about each school. And doing so in a way that is respectful, factual and not demeaning. I appreciate that this is a tricky time in some families and communications can be strained. If a cordial agreement is impossible, and if his maturity needs some help, perhaps a gap year is in order.</p>
<p>The fact that he is a legal adult does not have a great deal of relevance unless he is paying for the education.</p>
<p>Well…if you have the resources and finances are not going to be factored in…here is my opinion.</p>
<p>Let the student choose. If it works out… fine. If it doesn’t work out, he can always transfer. He is going to college, not you.</p>
<p>If you choose a school that is NOT the student’s choice and it does NOT work out…it will always be YOUR fault. If the student chooses a school and it doesn’t work out…well…it’s their own decision. Like I said…not the end of the world, transfering is always possible.</p>
<p>You can certainly open up a discussion about the pluses and minuses of the schools…what things one might have to offer that the others don’t, etc. We urged our kids to make their own list of pros/cons to help them decide the college choice in the end (both had close 1 and 2 choice schools). Maybe what you are observing in your son will also be apparent to him.</p>
<p>Why let the 18 year old make the choice?
Because maybe he will learn more from failure than success? Because he is 18 and if he rejects your well meaning and insightful input (I am assuming you will do as mafool says and handle it in a respectful way at a time where emotions are not heightened), especially in light of older sib’s experience, then maybe this is something he needs to learn for himself? Because the downside if he screws up is not so bad? (Unless of course it is and he would in essence never be able to finish college in which case you step in now.) My only child is just a h.s. senior now, but are there some ways support strategies can be put in place and clear consequences (e.g. if first year he does not get a 2.75 then he will have to withdraw and go to a different school)? Don’t actually know the answer but I think I will let my daughter make the mistake but be very clear on the consequences if there is an issue.</p>
<p>We all have to deal with constraints. With our kids there is a price limit on the school. We encourage them to go away from home but it has to be in the US. The school must be accredited and reputable. The schools themselves place a constraint through selectivity. I see no problem with telling your son you want him to choose a college below a certain size because he will likely have better guidance and be held more accountable with smaller classes and familiarity with professors.</p>
<p>There are so many great schools in the country he can surely come up with a long list to choose from within the limits you have given.</p>
<p>I agree, you can give him a size limit, but I’m not sure if that will keep him away from partying, especially if he can’t handle the temptation well. At my school, which is a small LAC, 80% of the kids go out and party, and I’m not exaggerating.</p>
<p>Also, my little brother was like that, we all thought he’d do good at a small school. He’s going to purdue. My parents let him choose.</p>
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<p>Nope. As a graduate of a Baptist university and a former Dean of Students at a Baptist university, let me assure you that the party scene is there, just as it is at state Us. Personally, I’d be persuaded by the fact that Clemson is so consistently ranked at the top nationally for “Happiest Students” and “Best Quality of Life.” That may suggest that students there find other things that make them happy besides drinking. But, all the same, the party scene of course, is alive and well at Clemson too.</p>
<p>Reminds me of the situation my brother was in 30 years ago. He graduated valedictorian of his class and wanted to attend a university a couple of hours away from home. My father thought it was a waste of money since we had a state flagship close by that was more prestigious than the university my brother had chosen. I’ll never forget the day my brother left for the university he wanted to go to and the fact that my father would not give him a dime. I believe it involved a middle finger from my brother. He had to work all through college (although I know my mom took him on secret shopping trips).</p>
<p>My brother ended up going to medical school and my dad paid! Not sure what the moral of the story is–I guess I think that if your child has done a good job in high school, has not picked an out right horrible school, and the price tag is not a problem, they should pick where they want to go. Like other posters have said, if it doesn’t work out, they can always transfer.</p>
<p>I am dealing with the same situation but differently-My D wants to go to a small LAC where her BF of 2 years attends-he is a freshman- I finally decided to let her go -money isn’t an issue- if she blows it she knows that she is outta there-it’s a very good school close to home-
BTW-I live 5 minutes from Samford- I know NO partying goes on at campus but I am sure those kids find a way to party.</p>
<p>“and money is not an issue (yes, we are paying)” – when would it ever be preferable for an 18-year-old to decide how his parents spend $100,000?</p>
<p>Bookmarked for interest.</p>
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<p>If so, is there another third choice besides SMU?</p>
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well in this family … while the $200,000 is our money … the college experience is our kids and they get to pick where they go … (caveat comment … the first two to go have picked from among choices with which we’re at least OK with if not the same first choice we would have made).</p>
<p>your money, you have a large say in the matter…or at the least to steer your kid in the right direction. I don’t believe an 18 year old should take a parents $200k and go wherever they please, that’s just dumb. Bottom line, it’s not the kids money.</p>
<p>While I don’t want to get too specific, I should further disclose that the experience with our oldest son has been absolutely horrific. He actually had to withdraw from school, is injured, is getting treatment out of state, and is now speaking as if he has no plans to return to college anytime soon. It has been a year plus of hell. You can perhaps understand why we are “gun shy” about son #2 making a similar mistake. And gadad, I know that there are kids who party at every school, and I realize we are speaking in generalities here, but I am very familiar with Samford and Clemson, and there is no comparison. I know how well Clemson shows under all the Princeton Review rankings with happy students, town/gown relations, etc., and we LIKE Clemson (we’ve had lots of family graduate from Clemson), but it is a much different atmosphere than Samford.</p>
<p>We had the discussions about schools BEFORE the applications were sent. There were some criteria we set as a family. One was that the school either had to be within a 3 hour drive of home OR within an hour of a close relative or friend. We didn’t let our kid APPLY to any colleges that didn’t meet those criteria.</p>
<p>Razor…if you were very concerned about the size of the school…why did you allow your S2 to apply to a large school? Perhaps that should have been a criteria for colleges to apply to…a school population less than a certain number. I’m assuming you knew about the schools to which your son applied. I understand your concern, but why are you expressing it now? Why wasn’t that done before the applications were sent?</p>
<p>And I’m so sorry to hear about your first son. Hopefully over time, things will settle down and his perspective will change. Right now, it sounds like he needs some time to get over an experience that wasn’t good for him.</p>
<p>Thumper, I “let” him apply to Clemson for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that we had been planning to let him make his own decision, and he wanted to have a good cross-section of schools to choose from – i.e., he didn’t have firm convictions about the desired size of the school when he was applying, and he wanted to have some varied selection (you can see that in 3,000, 6,500 and 15,000 undergrads, for Samford, SMU and Clemson, respectively). Also, Clemson is not far away from home, and even closer to some lake property we have. And there is a lot to like about Clemson. And the problems with our oldest son had not fully manifested at the time that son #2 was applying. At the time of his applications, basically every school on his list is one that was of strong potential interest, and one that we could afford to cover. So, here we are, and views and concerns have evolved over time. And my bias is still to let him decide, but if I “know” in my gut that it is a big risk …</p>
<p>You’ve got TWO really great things happening here:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>He likes all 3 schools and… </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Cost is not an issue</p>
<pre><code> 
HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY TIME :)!!!
</code></pre></li>
</ol></li>
</ol>
<p>I think I’d “straddle the fence” and handle it this way-</p>
<p>Ask your SON to create a list of all of the pros and cons at each school. Advise him that as his Parent, you ALSO will create a list of concerns that you’d like HIM TO CONSIDER prior to making HIS final decision.</p>
<p>*:)Note how we’re still giving this low key “chit chat forum” the complete appearance of a democracy ! </p>
<p>Have a RELAXED family Pow-Wow at your favorite family restaurant, and discuss both the pros and cons of each School. Let HIM talk first, and when it’s your turn…be sure and START with all of the positives of each school. If he begins to waffle a bit, back off and let the final decision belong to him. Just let him know that you’re there for him if he needs your further advise.</p>
<p>IF YOU HAVE TIME to visit all 3 Schools before decision time, ask him if he’d like to take another peek before he commits? If you think that will help him to feel more secure in his decision, maybe you could squeeze in time to take a final up-close look at all 3 Schools? </p>
<p>Keep it low key and consider hosting a FUN family chit chat, as a last measure to help him see/consider some of your concerns. THEN…delight in his selection.</p>
<p>This isn’t a college selection family situation like so many on CC where there are huge financial concerns and Children and Parents are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. (Although I’m a new member, I’ve been lurking around CC for a very long time). After your “chit chat for the ages” you should feel at ease. You have the satisfaction of know that even down to the wire- you voiced your concerns (a final time) and gave him full audience to hear his thoughts and opinions as to WHY he feels a certain way about HIS decision. </p>
<p>Then, continue your meal at your favorite restaurant. </p>
<p>Congratuations !</p>
<p>I like LilMama’s approach a lot.</p>
<p>I think the most important part is that regardless of the outcome (in a year or two), you WILL be there to help your S2 along if needed. </p>
<p>The hardest thing for you right now is that S1’s school issues are so fresh and it sounds like they are unresolved too. S2 is a different kiddo…that may be hard to see right now.</p>
<p>razordad,</p>
<p>My approach would be to discuss my concerns regarding various schools. I would tell my son that his ‘Family’ scholarship has stipulations just like any scholarship does. The major benefit to his scholarship is that he gets to go to the school that he chooses and will emerge from college debt free. The downside is that there are performance guidelines he must meet to continue to receive his funding. Those guidelines would be that he maintains SAP (satisfactory academic progress) for his degree with a minimum of a (you fill in the blank here) _____ GPA. I would specify that he would receive 8 semesters of Tuition/Room/Board/Books. You could negotiate summer courses if you like. Failure to maintain the GPA or disciplinary action at the school that interferes with his ability to make SAP towards his degree would result in his ‘Scholarship’ being transferred to a school of the sponsor’s choice or complete revocation, depending on the circumstances.</p>