<p>How much is S2 like S1? It would be unfortunate if S2 must do penance for S2’s mistakes.</p>
<p>Mafool makes a good point. What has changed since S2 sent his applications? The three schools’ dynamics and sizes are the same now. Your S2 is the same now. The difference is the negative experience that S1 had. This is not S2. It is understandable that you are concerned now but agreed, S2 is not S1.</p>
<p>Good point that s2 is not s1, but there seems to be sufficient reasons why OP is concerned about s2, among them:</p>
<p>“He is a kid who is likely to get ‘lost’ at a big school”
“He struggles with avoiding partying temptations”
“I know some 18 year olds are more mature and prudent than others – our 18 year old boy is probably not too high up on that list.”</p>
<p>I’m wondering whether something has happened fairly recently to cause OP to have significant concerns. OP seems to have a gut feeling that Clemson is a mistake for s2, and I know I couldn’t/wouldn’t ignore my gut. That said, I also wouldn’t feel comfortable having let ds apply to a school and now taking it off the list – that is, unless something major has happened, like disciplinary action at HS for drinking/drugs, evidence of partying beyond what’s in the realm of normal HS behavior, etc.</p>
<p>I’d continue to try to persuade him to consider your favorite schools but ultimately let him make the choice, setting conditions (doable GPA, adequate progress) on your continued support. Make a no-frat rule if that’s something your don’t support. Good luck.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can assume that child #2 would have the same problems at a big school as child #1.</p>
<p>What happened to child #1? Did he party too much? Not go to class? Get good grades, but just felt lost?</p>
<p>Each kid is different.</p>
<p>I should add…I had concerns about my older son attending a big flagship. My kids had gone to a small prep school, so I thought older son might feel lost. He didn’t. He’s graduating in May.</p>
<p>Yes, I also pointed out in my original post that, as between the 2 older sons, we felt like the oldest son would be more “capable” of handling and adjusting to the big school environment. Fat chance. I will say that son #2 has done some things in the past couple of months that have not instilled confidence in us about his decision-making (but it’s not dramatically different than the year prior). We have 3 sons, and we have always been very conscious of not penalizing one son for another’s mistakes – but yet we also need to learn, as parents, from our experiences with all of our children, and be perceptive about respective strengths and weaknesses. I appreciate all of the advice/suggestions.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear about S1, and I hope S2 will have a more positive experience - wherever he goes. I think it really depends on what kind of person S2 is; every kid is different.</p>
<p>As a 21 year old student, I would be imprudent to tell you how to deal with your sons. I can only speak from personal experience. I am the middle child in my family. I grew up in London, England; the rest of my family still resides there. When I was 17, I applied to some excellent universities in my native England, as well as abroad in Canada and the US. Ultimately, my heart became set on McGill University in Montreal. It was not the “best” of the list (although still Top 20 in the world), but I thought it was the best for me. A lot of my relatives thought I was crazy to abandon Oxford for some Canadian university on the other side of the Atlantic.</p>
<p>My parents had some reservations, but they let me make that choice - despite the fact that I was barely an adult, and despite the fact that McGill was named by Playboy magazine as a Top 10 Party School. I will love them until the day I die for allowing me to follow my heart, even when it didn’t seem like the most logical choice. Their trust in my judgement pushed me to do my best. Four years later, I’m getting ready to move once again to study medicine in the US.</p>
<p>My younger sister, who is more brilliant but also more attached to home, ended up attending Imperial College London. My older brother, although the cleverest out of the three of us, was definitely more inclined to party than study at 17/18ish. With some insistence from my parents, he studied at Cambridge (although he thought about going to the States), where our rather severe grandmother could keep an annoyingly close eye on him.</p>
<p>I would say that my parents treated each of us differently, but still fairly. They wanted us to be happy at the school of our choosing, but they also understood our differences in needs and personality.</p>
<p>^^ your response makes sense, razordad. It must be difficult to calibrate the Learning from Experience without over reacting.</p>
<p>Is the real issue that your gut tells you S2 is not ready to go to college away from home?</p>
<p>Jonri, I do have some concerns about whether he will be organized and diligent enough to be truly successful at any college – but at the same time he seems very interested in going to college, he’s done well enough (particularly in the past 2 or 3 semesters) to earn the right to have a shot, and he is very bright and personable. If he applies himself, he won’t have academic trouble at any of the 3 schools mentioned. Being away from home is not really an issue – he has been away from home at a boarding school for the past year plus.</p>
<p>Did something prompt the change to a boarding school?</p>
<p>You know, I’ve been wondering the same thing myself. When it comes to the huge outlay of cash I’m looking at, why is it “her” choice and not mine? I like something a previous poser said, set parameters. The problem is that it’s a little late in the game for you to do so with regard to where s may apply. However, you can set parameters as far as success is concerned. Bank of mom and dad closes if GPA standards aren’t met and won’t reopen until student transfers, for example. Knowing that up front may help an S make a choice other than “Party U”. He probably knows he’s apt to party. He might take himself out of harm’s way if he thinks the party would be over and he’d be living back at home by next Christmas.</p>
<p>Youdon’tsay, he was at a very large (top ranked) public high school and was being lazy and not working up to potential. Just a face in the crowd, and starting to flirt with running with the wrong crowd. We thought some independence (he was straining at the bit) coupled with smaller classes and more personal attention would help him turn the corner and start working up toward potential – which it did, for the most part. That experience, alone, might point toward a smaller college environment, but we also hoped for, and have seen, some maturing, and we didn’t want to unduly hamstring him in his initial thoughts on college size and in compiling his college application list. But, no doubt about it, he did better academically in a smaller, private school environment, with closer monitoring of behavior. (Older brother stayed at the big public school, was an honor grad, captain of he football team, Mr. Popularity, etc.)</p>
<p>I’m quite sure most people on this forum think I am abundantly generous with my kids. BUT we did set firm guidelines for them as they set off to their expensive private schools which we largely funded. First…we agreed to pay for ONLY four years. No more. We also did not provide a nickel of discretionary spending money…including for books. The kids were expected to work to earn that money. We expected a GPA of 3.0 or better because that was what it took to continue their merit awards. We made it very clear that if they lost the merit awards, they would be invited to come home to one of our instate public universities. And we also made it VERY clear that they would sign the privacy paperwork giving us access to their bursars account for billing purposes, and their grades. We never needed to look at the grades because another condition of payment was that the grades be given to us…in writing…at the end of each term. No grades…no tuition payments made. GPA below 3.0…no tuition payment made.</p>
<p>Oh. And our kids did take the Stafford loans each year. That way some of the money for college was THEIRS.</p>
<p>Maybe that sounds like hardball, but we spent a LOT of money to fund the education our kids received. They had NO problem with our guidelines. They were very grateful we agreed to pay for their schools.</p>
<p>I would bet that there were times when they had to make a decision about studying vs. partying.</p>
<p>I look at it as a joint decision. It doesn’t make sense sending your child to a school they hate. I get to rule some schools out but leave the choice to the student within certain bounds.</p>
<p>I would have been extremely resentful had my parents told me where I could and could not attend college. Advice was helpful and we certainly discussed our financial limitations. But the decision was mine.</p>
<p>First place I went, I found myself unhappy at, and I transferred out after a year. Part of the learning process. Ended up at my original second-choice school and did just fine.</p>
<p>I didn’t and still don’t consider that a failure in any way. I gave something a try, found it wanting and looked again. My decision, my responsibility. A better learning experience than some of my classes.</p>
<p>Let your son have that same opportunity. Switching colleges is not the end of the world.</p>
<p>As someone who started college at 17 and knew several undergrad who started much younger…including one who GRADUATED UNDERGRAD at 17, the question sounds very odd to my ears. </p>
<p>While parents technically do have the right to directly dictate college choices on the basis of “parental money, parental rules”, this may not be the best way. </p>
<p>First, where do you draw the line on allowing a young adult a chance to learn how to take responsibility for his/her own choices and their consequences? Secondly, if he/she ends up hating the choice and/or loses out on perceived opportunities as a result of taking the parents’ choice…some responsibility will be on them. </p>
<p>Maybe a better choice is to allow the 18 year old to make the choice…but make parental financial support conditional on clearly communicated minimal academic and behavioral expectations (i.e. Minimum GPA, maximum time to complete degree, partying/ECs/leisure activities take a backseat to academics/interships, etc). </p>
<p>If said expectations are not met, have circumstances which could range from transferring to in-state school as a commuter with parental support to pulling student completely out of college, moving him/her back home, and having him/her get a job until they mature enough to go back.</p>
<p>In 2001, we gave UGMA statement to DS (senior hs) which was sufficient to attend practically any college he wanted. After 9/11 the UGMA took a real beating but the applications were in. </p>
<p>We hope that DS realized that his choice of college and what he makes of his education would be worthwhile because if he blows it, no more money would come from us. It took us 17 years and a lot of luck to accomplish the UGMA.</p>
<p>“views and concerns have evolved over time”</p>
<p>Amen to that! SO much can change between September and May! In 08, for D. finances changed DRAMATICALLY in that time! For S, it’s sorta shifted the other way. For D, we had no good idea of what GPA to expect when she got into her reach, so didn’t give her a number, but when I came her to CC for advice when things seemed shaky, a lot of folks said “if you didn’t give a number you can’t change the rules now!” And S is on a completely different trajectory, so we let him apply places not knowing WHERE he’d be by the time decisions were upon us.</p>
<p>We have what I think is an astronomical EFC, and we seem to be able to pay it (if things stay the way they are THIS year, and NOT the way they were in 2008), but how many can say money is no object? The money could always go toward retirement. Can there ever be enough? </p>
<p>Oops. Not about me.</p>
<p>I’ll follow along.</p>
<p>I think I’d put the option of S2 having a Gap year on the table. A year makes a huge difference in a young man’s life. He doesn’t have to fling burgers for 12 months. You could spend a little and let him travel – or invite him to camp/backpack on an extended trail or try an outdoor course like NOLS or Outward Bound. </p>
<p>I’d also keep my mouth shut right this minute. You probably haven’t heard, for sure, that he’s been accepted to all three schools. Wait until you know what the acceptances and any financial aid/scholarships are. </p>
<p>I’d swap the “dinner at a restaurant” discussion for a walk together once it gets down to decision time. If you are walking together, you are not in a dominant behavioral position. You are both looking and moving forward.</p>
<p>Whew, had to get cookies out of the oven!</p>
<p>Anyway, you walk and listen to him mull over his options. If he chooses Clemson, then you can put some conditions on it – they probably have an alchol free dorm that is a choice. Or a dorm with significant quiet hours. You could say he needs to choose that sort of dorm for the first semester AND promise to attend every class (an important first step to surviving the first semester). </p>
<p>You can also spend some of this spring/summer helping him identify his styles of learning and avoiding. I am enjoying the book “That Crumpled Paper was Due last week” by a professional counselor who helps teen males organize their lives. She has different techniques for different types of guys. Go for whatever personality/job strengths sorts of testing that is available in your community and encourage S2 to pick his fall classes according to his strengths. </p>
<p>Our S2 stumbled in a fall classics class that had tons of reading. He’s much happier this term with a computer programming class. Choosing a course load that works helps a lot with keeping things out of the ditch. </p>
<p>My heart goes out to your S1. He’s got to feel battered and disgusted with himself. It can’t be easy for him to watch S2 starting out with a clean slate. I hope you’ll encourage S1 to see this as Guy 1.0 which will be followed by Man 2.0 after a period of debugging and beta testing. Good luck!</p>