<p>When you turn 18, it is time to wake up to some realities. If you want to blow off mom and dad - that’s cool, but don’t expect them to pay for the cell phone, car insurance and whatever apartment or school you want. If mom and dad are gonna pay, expect for them to have a say. If you can pay it all yourself, you should be polite, but you can do whatever you want. That is the real world.</p>
<p>Since he likes each of the three schools, I think you should choose. Go with your gut. You know your son, I do not think either of you will regret it. I think his actions alone have caused you to be leery of sending him to the larger school. His brother seems to have opened your eyes. I think if you thought he could handle it, this would not be an issue. If you thought he was able to handle it, I do not think his brothers actions would make you think he couldn’t handle it.</p>
<p>I’m casting my vote for your paternal intuition too though I think that you really have to tread lightly and refrain from making any decisions for him. I don’t really think the issue is that his brother has had a bad experience because, really, that could have happened anywhere. If your younger son has been away and doing well at prep school he can likely navigate a larger school without too much trouble. Temptation will be present no matter where he goes and I think you know that. Fwiw, our experience is that it’s actually easier to avoid an unwanted party scene at larger (20K+) schools simply because there’s more to do on campus and kids aren’t as likely to be bored to tears. Ditto for making friends/finding opportunities…a bigger pool has been the silver lining for my kid at “mega U”. I think your concern about his ability to handle large sections is valid. He’s had experience with both types of academic environments and has performed better in a smaller setting. I would use that as an entry point for a conversation about which type of school will be the right academic fit and will best serve his long term goals (and that may be the time to let him know what your gpa expectations are)…once there’s consensus on that point, he may very well take Clemson off the table since he likes the other schools equally well.</p>
<p>I think it’s difficult not to project or bechmark behaviors of the first child on the second child. Sometimes you just need to take a deep breath and let #2 make the decisions. It was our experience that #2 often “learned” from the mistakes of #1.</p>
<p>My sympathies go out to you- this must be tough because you do not want S2 to go through the bad times that S1 did. Not a control issue so much as a protection one. One of my friends told her kids that “Mama does not pay for Cs”. If they got a C they had to pay back the parents for tuition for that class.
I guess the wise words of my daughter’s pediatrician are the ones that I would fall back on in your place- She told me that I was the expert on my daughter. To trust my instincts and believe that if there were alarm bells ringing, even though the situation seemed fine to others, then to pay attention. So, listen to your son, then listen to yourself. Good luck.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all the great feedback. I’ll admit that, with all the anguish we feel about the son #1 experience (and wondering what we could and should have done differently), we are worried about how we could handle the emotional trauma of a replay with son #2. Perhaps that has to be the overriding consideration, I don’t know. Son #1 showed us, in our case at least, that making the wrong choice doesn’t always just result in a transfer to another school. The consequences can be much more dire (and I realize it is not just the “wrong school choice” factor in play, but also likely some other issues for our son). </p>
<p>Son #2 has been accepted to Samford, SMU and Clemson, and he has officially or unofficially visited all 3. He is still waiting to hear on some schools of potential interest (e.g., Furman - decent chance; Pepperdine - decent chance; Vanderbilt - almost no chance). He definitely will do overnight visits at his 2 or 3 finalists.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any insight into SMU? If he had to choose today, I think he would choose SMU. On paper there is a lot to like. It is what he probably feels is the ideal size (6,500 undergrads, 10,800 overall), not so small as to know everyone but not so large as to be just a number. (I also love that size – it is what you see with many of the top schools, like most of the Ivy League schools, Vandy, Duke, etc.) It is top 50ish in the rankings (for what that’s worth). It has a liberal arts emphasis (for a “university”), which is where he excels (750 on CR on SAT). The campus is beautiful. They have more internships from the city of Dallas than they are able to fill with students. It has Division 1 football/sports, but not over the top. It has “vibrant” greek life (which he wants, and which is a concern), but they do defer rush until second semester (so we could make it contingent on first semester success) and hopefully it is not over the top like at some of the larger state schools. Is SMU the “happy medium/median”?</p>
<p>Argh. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is the frat scene at SMU is more than “vibrant.” In fact, I remember a few years ago a hoopla about buses taking students off campus to go drinking. The good news: Not a lot of drunk driving. The bad news: It’s cause they’re all wasted on a bus that takes kids to bars. I did a quick Google search but couldn’t find the info I was looking for, but I did find this, from something called The Daily Gaggle:</p>
<p>“As alcohol related violations rise on campus, the SMU student body has developed a program to prevent alcohol abuse and encourage students to act responsibly in order to promote a safe environment for social activities to take place. … By the middle September the SMU Police Department has reported 271 alcohol and substance violations and 12 hospitalizations due to alcohol intoxication. Last year, the SMU Police reported 350 alcohol and substance violations during the whole year and 13 hospitalizations due to alcohol intoxication.”</p>
<p>271 violations in the matter of 3-4 weeks sounds like a serious problem to me.</p>
<p>But it is a beautiful campus. I’ve been there a lot. I have friends who went there who weren’t Greek and were fine.</p>
<p>OP,
You sound like a well-educated, very involved parent. You (and your W?) know your son better than anyone else on the planet. You are paying the tuition. Therefore, I vote for you allowing your S to choose from only those colleges where you would feel comfortable about him attending.</p>
<p>^ I liked Bay’s response; concise and true.</p>
<p>In fact, I found the position (apparently from students, but I could be mistaken) that you have to let your child choose or he’ll hate you forever (I’m paraphrasing) to be odd.</p>
<p>When I went to college at age 17, my parents told me I had to stay in-state. It did not cross my mind to either argue or hate them forever. In fact, when I talked to my parents about going to Florida with some girlfriends over spring break as a college senior, and they said no because they felt it wasn’t safe, the concept that I could have argued with them or just gone anyway since I was over 18 by then popped into my mind when reading CC, lo these 30 years later. I rejected the idea immediately.</p>
<p>He might not “hate you forever,” but I find it absurd that a parent would claim to know better than the student what school had the right fit for them. And if that initial decision turns out to be the wrong one - well then, the student learns how to deal with change.</p>
<p>If you are going to restrict your S2’s choice, I’d tell him that right NOW. Frankly, like others in this thread, I think these concerns should have been voiced before applications were mailed. But if you feel so strongly that you will restrict his choice, I think you owe it to him to tell him NOW before the rest of the envelopes come in.</p>
<p>In explaining your reasons to him, I’d focus on his behavior, not his brother’s experience.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I went out of state for college at 17 and my parents never restricted me in terms of distance or other activities so long as I didn’t lose my near-full ride scholarship and didn’t ask them for financial assistance as they had none to give. My younger under-17 classmates dormed and otherwise studied at my LAC no differently than the 18-22 year old set. </p>
<p>My parents would find placing such restrictions on people who are young adults to be a bit too coddling, especially my father considering he had to live on his own wits from the age of 12 and remembered how young men from the age of 18 were expected to serve 2 years in the army. As a result, the idea of them restricting me on which colleges to attend or moreso, where to go on spring break would never enter their minds. As far as they were concerned, once I earned my place into college, I earned the right to be treated as an adult…and expected to behave accordingly.</p>
<p>Then again, each child is different and only the OP knows the son the best. I just wanted to point out that not all 18 year olds…or even 13-17 year olds are incapable of living as mature independent young adults. I’ve met too many examples of such to feel otherwise.</p>