<p>i wasn't ready to say Haverford was my first choice way back in november, but now i am! </p>
<p>does anyone know why haverford doesnt have edii when many of their peer institutions do?</p>
<p>It seems that "top" schools may feel tat EDII cheapens their appeal. EDII says you didn't get ino yur first choice "Ivy" so you'll settle for second best.</p>
<p>really??
dont swarthmore, pomona, bowdoin, carleton, and middlebury have ED2????
they all seem like "top schools" that certainly wouldnt like a "cheapened appeal."</p>
<p>its just frustrating, in november i just wasn't 100% sure, now i am. </p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>humph... don't know what to say about that.</p>
<p>Maybe Haverford feels differently than those other top schools. Swarthmore is basically Haverford (at least geographically). Why not EDII there? </p>
<p>And why do you have to attend this coming fall? Take a yr off then apply EDI to Haverford, that is if you don't get in RD this yr. </p>
<p>And I am beginning to question the advantage of EA/ED b/c schools are slotting these spots w/ athletes, URMs, legacies, and VIPs. W/o a hook are the advantages of ED that great???</p>
<p>Honestly, ED was the biggest mistake I made. I am a very competitive applicant with several "hooks". The DoA of one of the schools that comprises SWAP gave me a 90% chance of admission to Haverford ED, and yet, I was rejected. Sorry to sound snobby, just trying to put my app into proper perspective. Obviously being well-qualified is never enough, but my rejection was, by all accounts, surprising. If I had applied RD, when more students are accepted, I am almost certain I would have gotten in. I guess I'm lucky because while I loved Hav., I actually love a lot of my RD schools, too.
And yeah Charlie, I think they fill certain brackets ED, too. Oh well.</p>
<p>Ouch, froghorn. But if you are RD material they'd very likely have deferred your ED. You'll be happy wherever you get in b/c that'll be a school you wanted and one that wants you. Good luck.</p>
<p>No, they very rarely defer and frankly, I find that statement to be condescending and poorly informed.</p>
<p>EDII is a product of the US News rankings. In the mid 1990s, there was no EDII. The basic reason for it is to ultimately get more students bound to the college so that fewer RD applicants can be accepted. While yields for ED are 98-100%, yields for RD are often 35-45%. Schools wind up having a lower acceptance rate and look better if they are able to fill up their incoming class with EDI/EDII. HC accepts 1/3 of its class ED while many other schools accept 40-50% under their ED I/II. Maybe HC doesn’t want to add even more pressure to worried applicants at the expense of looking less selective? </p>
<p>Froghorn, 10% chance of a rejection is a huge chance. To put it another way, if you had a 10% chance of getting into a car crash on a given night, I think you'd be very very worried, no?</p>
<p>“The DoA of one of the schools that comprises SWAP gave me a 90% chance of admission to Haverford ED, and yet, I was rejected.” I think it’s awful that this person gave you such advice. They should know better. They don’t sit on HC’s adcom so how can they guess what that panel values? At most, they gave you a 90% chance of getting into their school given what that particular school values (congrats!!). There are some things that are impossible to predict… and I think a top school selecting a top candidate out of a top applicant pool is one of them. </p>
<p>Also, if I can ask, did you have a personal connection with this person? It's sort of strange that a DoA would entertain any applicant with a "chances" on a school where they don't work.</p>
<p>HC Alum, luckily for me, I do have a personal connection with said DoA. Second, DoA's kid is at Haverford (pure coincidence) and the DoA has some personal connections (not that the he/she used them for me) with HC's AdComm (I think this DoA and HC's DoA are familiar, though all the small elite DoA's seem to know each other), thus felt justified in making a prediction. The prediction for his/her (sorry, I feel like I need to be REALLY ambiguous here to protect all parties) school is 80+%. I was warned to take the prediction as just that: a prediction; I wasn't guaranteed anything. You're right: the applicant pool is incredibly competitive and the spots so few, making a prediction is nearly impossible and not a reflection, necessarily, of one's worthiness of Haverford (hence my annoyance with Charlie's comment).</p>
<p>Also, about ED II, I asked the DoA's thoughts. This DoA has worked at two of the four acronymous letters of SWAP located east of the Mississippi River. Amherst and Williams do not have ED II. DoA told me that at AC, the AdComm tried ED II but found that it wasn't terribly useful for the school and proved to be too time consuming as RD decisions are due so soon after. Obviously Swat has it; I don't know if Williams never has done ED II.</p>
<p>ummm...you post enough here that we all know you are talking about the DoA at Amherst...if "he/she" was kind enough to give you such insights, I doubt "he/she" would be happy that you are so forthcoming with this info on a public board.</p>
<p>froghorn, My post was not in any way supposed to be construed as condecending. College admissions is so tough these days that I wanted to assure you that even though you didn't get into Haverford that you will get in somewhere, and hopefully that somewhere will mean more to you than HC might have meant. Also, I spoke w/ a friend this morning at HC Admissions (they're super busy w/ their RD deadline tomorrow) and was assured that you are mistaken about the # deferred.</p>
<p>Charlie,
I apologize for the misunderstanding. College admission is really tough and capricious. I suppose my rejection could be seen by its silver lining: now I have options I was too blinded to consider in November. That said, obviously I wish Haverford were still a possibility. On I'll move. As for the deferrals, I don't want to argue finer points. My understanding from the AdOff was that Haverford defers far fewer than it outright rejects (opposite of schools like AC, Williams and Swat), but I could well be mistaken. Thanks for the encouragement; all the seniors on CC need it right now!</p>
<p>froghorn, You may be right. I doubt the nameless person I spoke w/ at the AdOff really knows the rates at other schools and might believe HC is on par w/ the others. He did say about 40% of ED spots traditionally go to athletes and if you include the legacy, VIP, and top-notch URM contigency it may make the true # of accepted others quite low. </p>
<p>I do feel for you as it has gotten insane. I was deferred ED at Wms yrs ago and never waited to find out the results as I went into UCLA at $435 per quarter. Today, Wms'd laugh at my application and I'd be at UC Merced at $5000/year.</p>
<p>For the same reasons why well-trained physicians know better than to treat family and close friends, why professionals in investment shouldn’t invest for friends and extended family, directors of admissions shouldn’t be giving “chances” to people they know. Whether they realize it or not, personal relationships and expectations often cloud judgment. That’s why I asked.</p>
<p>Regarding EDII, W/A don’t really have to do it cause of their perceived prestige, mainstream appeal (larger size, NE location, no quirky characteristics like an honor code/ advertised intensity/ all women’s status, ect…) and the fact that their financial aid can sway accepted students. Their yields are a little higher as a result. Another reason, if I’m correct, is that WC accepts 40% of their incoming class ED than the 33% at HC/AC so the outcome is similar to having a quasi-EDII even without the designation. </p>
<p>To remain competitive in the US News, I think some other colleges resort to EDII to game acceptance rates. These schools would have to accept 2-3X the # of applicants for each spot not filled by EDII (assuming an RD yield of 40%) or </p>
<p>50%(filled by EDI/II)-33% (filled by EDI at HC/Amherst) = 17% of their incoming class. </p>
<p>If the school has an incoming class of 400, that would be </p>
<p>400 x 0.17 = 68 spots normally filled by EDII </p>
<p>and </p>
<p>68 x 40% RD yield = 170 kids would need to be accepted RD to fill these 68 spots.</p>
<p>Or </p>
<p>170-68 = 102 more kids accepted each year. </p>
<p>However, if EDII were merged with RD, RD yields would likely be higher than 40% so let’s say 60 more kids (instead of 102) would need to be added to the usual acceptance pool of 900 for a 400 sized incoming class. That’s still a significant increase in acceptance rates for these schools to forgo EDII or decrease their EDI impact to 33% of the entering class. In that light, schools where total ED admits make up more than 33% of the incoming class are less selective (by about an absolute 2-3%) than stated once adjusted for these issues. That can make a difference in a rank of several spots on the US News where differences are already slight.</p>
<p>you all seem to be regarding edii as this thing to get better rankings, and maybe that is the case for the coleges that have it, but there are MANY students who use ed for the purpose that it was designed for...to make an emphatic statement that x college is their first choice.</p>
<p>that's what frustrating for me. i'm ready to say haverford is my first choice that is why i wish they had edii. not becuase i want to have an edge over other candidates. </p>
<p>whatever...april isn't THAT far away. haha.</p>
<p>/\ if you used at least 1/2 the exclamation points in your essays as your screen name here, I think your enthusiasm will come through clearly. you can always send a follow up letter in feb/march or so to let the adcom know Hc is your 1st choice and what you've been up to since you submitted your january application.</p>