Williams or Brown?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
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<p>not sure if you can depend on an internet forum to gauge the happiness of a school??</p>

<p>there could be one person who doesn’t even go to the school who writes bad things, no? then would you think the school was “less happy”?</p>

<p>and to be honest… the friends i want to make in college aren’t the ones writing “multi-paragraph essays” on internet forum boards :D</p>

<p>wasn’t telling your son to go stalk a celeb, was just saying that as a cool piece of trivia. plus… she is so amazing!</p>

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<p>japanoko: Where are you getting 25 from? Williams averages 10% of the school in math majors, which comes to about 50/55 each year. I did misspeak, though–I meant to say that Williams has the largest undergraduate math RESEARCH program in the country (which is true–the ironically named SMALL, mentioned above).</p>

<p>I know nothing about equipment here or how it compares to Brown, but definitely check out the Report of Science that comes out every year from each department (Physics one here: <a href=“http://science.williams.edu/report-of-science-at-williams/report-of-science-at-williams-2010/science-department-news/physics-2010/[/url]”>http://science.williams.edu/report-of-science-at-williams/report-of-science-at-williams-2010/science-department-news/physics-2010/&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Emma Watson’s also leaving Brown/“taking a break” (which clearly is the most important deciding factor here).</p>

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<p>[College</a> Navigator - Williams College](<a href=“College Navigator - Williams College”>College Navigator - Williams College)</p>

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<p>please define what you mean by “math RESEARCH program”, keeping in mind the absolutely incredible Math departments of such schools as MIT, Caltech, Harvard, UC Berkeley and Princeton.</p>

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<p>It’s the largest undergraduate math research program (as in, undergraduate students doing math research) in the country. Obviously by percentage of students doing research, because Williams has about a tenth the student body of many larger institutions.</p>

<p>No idea where College Navigator got those numbers from, and I can’t find the class of 2010 anywhere online, but here are numbers on 2011 and 2012:
[url=&lt;a href=“http://math.williams.edu/majors/current-majors/]Math/Stat[/url”&gt;http://math.williams.edu/majors/current-majors/]Math/Stat[/url</a>]</p>

<p>61 in 2011, 59 in 2012.</p>

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<p>Also, here’s a nice article and student perspective on physics research at Williams, LoremIpsum, if you haven’t read it yet: [Williams</a> College : Williams College Spotlight on Student Research](<a href=“http://www.williams.edu/slider-stories/spotlight-on-student-research/]Williams”>Spotlight on Student Research – Williams College)</p>

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<p>I’m also choosing between Williams and Brown, so I’d be interested to hear more about this. Looking into music and engineering.</p>

<p>Williams2011, what would you say is the general difference in atmosphere between the two schools? I loved Williams and its students when I visited, but have not been to see Brown.</p>

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<p>The academic comparisons are great here, and it seems as though access to Professors at Williams clearly exceeds that of Brown. An issue I struggle with is the “huh?” factor with Williams. For the rest of your life, people will ask where you went to college. They will, period. Even into your 50’s or 60’s as you meet new colleagues or random people. People seek calibration when meeting strangers, and finding out where you went to colleges is one of the major, continuing questions people ask. My issue with Williams is that no one knows of it (it’s nice that New York investment bankers know, but here I care about the random guy on seat next to you on the plane). In fact, the name non-recognition is so pernicious that the Williams Record newspaper writes about it and Williams students have formed committees to figure out what to do about it. They are frankly unnerved that they work so hard and that the colleges is elite, but that the name represents nothing (“eh, what? Where?”). </p>

<p>I do not think that Brown has the name recognition issue, and this is a life issue, just not a mere which school has more office hours issue. Please.</p>

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<p>i visited both brown and williams and liked brown a lot more.</p>

<p>williams is a great school but i just felt suffocated in williamstown… can you imagine being stuck there in the winter?</p>

<p>brown is just so nice, right on a hill… perfect ambiance in the world. again, emma watson chose it out of any school in the U.S.! and she is taking a break to do acting because she’s amazing</p>

<p>also, brown is an ivy league school… can’t go wrong with that!</p>

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<p>I see, so it is not overall the largest undergraduate math research program, but only on a percentage basis?</p>

<p>thanks for clearing it up.</p>

<p>but maybe do you think that even this might not be true?</p>

<p>Undergraduate Math Majors as a Percent of all undergraduate students (from Collegeboard):</p>

<p>18% - Caltech
12% - Harvey Mudd
10% - MIT
7% – Pomona
7% – Williams</p>

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<p>LI, my son is a Williams grad. Brown was one of his top choices, but ultimately he chose to apply ED to Williams and spent a very happy four years there. He was in the humanities, not math/science, but many of his friends were science kids and they had nothing but good things to say about their experience. </p>

<p>Williams professors really are accessible: they’re there for the kids, period. And the gift keeps giving in the form of recommendations and advice long after graduation.</p>

<p>Aside from the size of the school, which impacts the ambience of the school, your son should also consider the physical environments because they couldn’t be more different. After visiting he will surely favor one or the other.</p>

<p>Williamstown is a pristine mountain village, subject to some severe winter weather. For my son, access to nature and snow sports was a definite positive, and although he’d always lived in big cities (and surely will again) he really enjoyed the insularity of the Williams community. He managed to get to New York or Boston once or twice a term, either as a part of an academic project or a social event, but he was always happy to get back to the Purple bubble.</p>

<p>Although my son liked Brown, he really didn’t like Providence. It seems to have many of the downsides of a big city, but without the allure of New York, Boston or Chicago. </p>

<p>My son also really enjoyed Winter Study (January term) as an opportunity to kickback, socialize and take a class outside of his comfort zone. Another plus is the entry system, which made the transition to the campus community seamless. Assuming that your son will be a young freshman, this supportive and inclusive system could be a positive for him. </p>

<p>As a general statement, Williams kids take academics very seriously, but at the same time they seek a balance between classes and extracurriculars, and are often involved in the arts AND in something active or outdoorsy. </p>

<p>For the most part, the Williams kids I met impressed me with their kindness, enthusiasm, self-confidence, intellectual curiosity and wide range of interests. My son was concerned that the atmosphere would be too serious, and was pleased to find that his offbeat sense of humor was appreciated.</p>

<p>The “huh” factor [thanks, Placido :slight_smile: ] is a valid concern. If name recognition among the-average-person-on-the-street is important then don’t go to Williams. Of course, graduate schools and Wall Street know and respect Williams, but in sheer brand awareness Brown would win out.</p>

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<p>@Japanoko:</p>

<p>For one, williams2011 is citing the percentage of each graduating class majoring in mathematics. You are citing the percentage of the total undergraduate population majoring in mathematics. Unsurprisingly, your numbers will differ, largely because one half of the Williams population <i>hasn’t declared a major yet</i>. If you looked at the percentage of Williams students who are majoring in anything at all out of the undergraduate population, you’ll find that it’s about 50% - because Williams students do not declare until the end of their sophomore year. And who knows how this might differ from Williams, a small liberal arts college, to Caltech or MIT, where (and I don’t know for sure about this) you might have instances of tracking and early declaration (you can’t declare early at Williams). So you are citing a misleading and potentially even more misleading set of statistics. Williams has consistently graduated at least 10% of each class in the field of mathematics for a number of years - if you look at the percent of the student population that most likely will end up majoring in mathematics, it will be at least 10% - and it seems as though it’s growing.</p>

<p>As for the <em>largest</em>, matter of how you spin it. Doesn’t really matter all that much, TBH - the track record of student achievement sort of speaks for itself.</p>

<p>@placido240 - you’re absolutely right. Fewer people know the name of Williams College than Brown. Personally, I don’t lose sleep over that fact. Many people I meet haven’t heard of it. That’s perfectly fine - my appreciation for everything Williams has done for me (the latest in this series has been awarding me a stipend/grant to do my own research over the summer) is fortunately not tied to what the good person to the right or left of me on an airplane thinks of my alma mater. If name recognition is important enough to dissuade you from attending, that’s absolutely your choice to make. It should be noted, on the other hand, that everybody who <i>does</i> recognize the name “Williams College”, i.e. potential employers, graduate program admission committees, scholarship/fellowship award committees, Williams alumni, etc., regard it very highly. Personally, I am much more hopeful for my future career prospects, especially in my chosen field, specifically because of where I go to school.</p>

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<p>Mandala, for “those who know it” - this applies to Amherst or Midd or Bowdoin too, you know?</p>

<p>as for most non- new englanders, no one will know anything about these schools, period</p>

<p>i don’t know why people care so much about whether it has the largest undergraduate math program… this is pretty pointless because as others have pointed out, the whole point at a LAC is to explore your interests and not come in with a set major in mind (though most do because the type of people that go here are very serious about what they want to do)</p>

<p>providence > williamstown though (excluding campus), no matter how you look at it. just visit.</p>

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<p>Williams is a significantly wealthier school than Brown. Per student endomwment at Williams is 578k vs Brown at 244k. I.e. Williams has more than twice the fiscal resources per student that Brown has (no doubt a direct result of the highly successful and highly loyal W. alumni).</p>

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<p>^ Don’t think this is valid for Brown.</p>

<p>I’d normally agree with that argument…but after the billion mark, it becomes more relative value.</p>

<p>Let’s be honest – Brown is in the ivy league. This argument could apply to other schools.</p>

<p>Look at Grinnell College, it is a even smaller LAC than Williams, and has even more money per student endowment than Williams… and I think we can all say that Grinnell doesn’t even come close to Williams’ reputation (no disrespect to Grinnell!)</p>

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<p>LI, I hope you will post this on the Brown forum,too.</p>

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<p>Good idea, Bedford! Those who speak for Williams are an enthusiastic and erudite bunch. Let us see how the folks at Brown respond.</p>

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<p>I wonder if that might not be a positive. Some ordinary folks, including those that might hire you, are rather down on the la-de-da reputation of Harvard and Princeton and Yale. Anyone who appreciates the top schools should be familiar with Williams, the rest at least won’t hold it against you! ;)</p>

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<p>i haven’t heard of a kid getting rejected from a job because he went to princeton</p>

<p>pretty sure most employers won’t hold that against you</p>

<p>unless its running the cash register at Walmart</p>

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<p>@LoremIpsum:</p>

<p>You know, I hadn’t considered that, but it’s a fair point, come to think of it. It’s not at all a bad thing to be able to keep the prestige of your institution to yourself when you feel more comfortable doing so. Sometimes to name a school associated with “smart people” or money can be a conversation stopper, and there have been times that I’ve been thankful to say, “It’s a small school in Massachusetts” and leave it at that. </p>

<p>Again, all of these considerations are truly peripheral. Williams and Brown are quite different, and I encourage your son to visit both. I don’t think that a single visit can at all convey the feel of going to school at Williams or Brown for four years, but visiting both will be valuable in gauging the differences between living Providence as opposed to Williamstown, and this difference should be taken into consideration. I myself am from suburbia and appreciate the cultural offerings of the city (my hometown is located 20 minutes from a major one) but prefer to live in a more rural scene. To this end, I much prefer Williamstown to Providence (I have visited the latter), but that’s really just a personal preference. Neither is “better”. I have many friends who are from New York City and the surrounding metropolitan area, and many feel quite at home here in the “mountains”. It’s really about what feels right. Same goes for the size of the school, the feel of the campus, the community, and the professors, staff and administration.</p>

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<p>Williams Math majors graduating last year as a percent of students in class</p>

<p>25/525 = 4.8%</p>

<p>[College</a> Navigator - Williams College](<a href=“College Navigator - Williams College”>College Navigator - Williams College)</p>

<p>I hope this clarifies things a bit for you</p>