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<p>EXACTLY. If the pressure is in her head, then that’s where it is - and it doesn’t matter if you’re in Manhattan or (say) Grinnell, Iowa.</p>
<p>FID, THank you for staying clued into this thread and keeping up the good fight. I think you’re hearing the message that cutting back on therapy is NOT the solution. Her music can always be pursued without formal lessons, especially since she’s at an advanced level. My D had far few issues than yours (no suicides or self-harm) and we’re about to go to 1x a month therapy after 3+ years. I find that few insurance companies reimburse what they should but make sure you submit the bills and get what you can. You have A LOT to solve her and it will take more than 6 months. This is much more important than anything else she’s doing to prepare for college.</p>
<p>As for your college search–it’s debatable whether she should be more than a couple hours drive from you. I love NY (obviously) but there’s no way I would send this girl to either Columbia or NYU–it’s too easy to fall through the cracks and there are too many temptations for risk-taking here. I like the idea of small class sizes where the professor will notice if she’s not in class. If you really feel she can be far away, try looking for schools where a close relative might be within an hour’s travel. When my niece–who on the surface seemed to have it all–started to flounder at her Ivy, she came to stay with us for a few weekends (we’re a 2 hour train away). She needed some real intervention, but she righted herself and graduated with honors.</p>
<p>Continue to work on college planning with her, but always have a backup plan. She needs to have something to “get better for” and to know you believe in her. Come on over to the various B student threads–we’ve seen it all.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it’s become hard to really get anything out of her. She refuses to talk to either of us besides the bare minimum (since her grades dropped, i.e., the past week.) In which case therapy definitely takes priority, because the only evidence of what’s going on in her head would be from the therapist. This worries me. </p>
<p>looking, good point. I’ve asked her to make an appt with her GC tomorrow. GC said she had good shots at all the UCs besides Berkeley, and even at some elite privates. This was pre-D’s friend’s suicide, however. </p>
<p>nyermom, I appreciate the point about having the backup plan, but still maintaining what she sees as my faith in her. I’ve looked over the mentioned threads and they are very helpful! I’ve been reading some of the colleges up in Fiske’s in my spare time. </p>
<p>Does anyone know whether I’d be able to edit my original post? I feel it would be much easier to talk about D without all the extraneous revealing information in that post.</p>
<p>Starting to feel like all this good advice hasn’t changed anything. Your daughter is going back to the GC already and you are still talking “elite privates.” With all due respect, I think you will only make things worse if you don’t radically change your approach. There is no way, in my opinion, that she will get the message of unconditional support if she continues to feel pressure to get into a certain level of school (or to worry about college at all right now). Also, why does she have to take the French and bio exams on top of everything else? They are optional, no? The pressure on your daughter just seems unrelenting. I wish she, and you, could define your “faith” in her without focusing on the same things that made her crack in the first place.</p>
<p>I think I might slow things down. Why not plan on her doing an extra year of High School so she can lighten her load, get some personal issues addressed and perhaps still accomplish some of her academic goals? Perhaps even a PG program at a school like Cate or Thacher. This could help you judge if she is ready to go away but keep her close enough to monitor how she is doing. She is clearly a talented student, so why not give her an extra year to resolve some of things that are getting in her way?</p>
<p>FID…you can always edit a post, look at it and there is an edit button. Make sure to hit save when you are done…</p>
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<p>I believe that there is only a window of about 20 minutes in which one can edit one’s own new post.</p>
<p>However, at the bottom of every post you see the phrase Report Problem Post. If you click there a window appears and you can express your concerns, which will be read by the moderator. Perhaps you can suggest what you would like to have edited out. In my experience, moderators do not respond directly, but they do often make proposed reasonable changes.</p>
<p>You have gotten some really good advice here. I feel for you.</p>
<p>We deliberately chose to live in a relatively low pressure neighborhood where we don’t deal with the constant comparisons and veiled scorn for lessers. It sounds like your wife has bought into this prestige thinking, and your Ds unfortunate struggles are screwing that up. It is past time for your wife to face reality and support the kid she has. And if part of the problem is that your D has also bragged about her grades, scores, and big plans, then she needs to shift her thinking as well, and start to embrace more humble plans.</p>
<p>Perhaps if you can find a few nearby (3 hrs or less) schools to start to talk up, to D and to your wife, their thinking could begin to change. You could offer to take D on a vacation to NYC, but I would firmly squash further talk about any far distant pressure cooker schools. Frankly, if the cost of music lessons plus therapy is hurting, I don’t see how you can afford distant, expensive schools. Use the prohibitive expense as a private reason for terminating further talk about them.</p>
<p>One more thing - I would consider speaking with the guidance counselor to inform them about types of schools that are no longer under consideration. They want to brag too, and your Ds scores are tempting them to push her to brag-worthy places she should not go. Good luck.</p>
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<p>And revamping the fantasy takes time. OP needs time to wrap his head around this, too. It’s so very tempting to put together a “plan” for treatment and then go back to one’s business. “We will treat and in X number of days, weeks, months we will get back to normal.” But the definition of normal has to change, maybe forever, and after 16-17 years of one way of thinking, that’s tough. Add in to that the person who needs the support is probably not asking for things that are in her own best interest (the continued focus on “good college”). </p>
<p>Fightingirishdad, try to find some other parents whose children have had similar problems so you can talk. If there’s a local chapter of NAMI, check them out. You’re trying very hard to adjust your thinking and expectations. You have to cut yourself a little slack in that you’re only human like the rest of us and will make mistakes. But a real live support system of people to tell you how to stop pushing your D can be invaluable.</p>
<p>Good tips from Treetop. Take the pressure off your D’s grades by making it about money and YOUR financials. That gives her a response when dealing with her friends who ask why she’s not applying to these elite faraway schools. Give the GC a heads up in general terms that you want to see recommendations of some schools that are low-key, with good support systems and not too far away. In any college search, it’s the “safeties” that are the most important to research. If the school and GC are not already being proactive about a fellow-student’s suicide, then hold their feet to the fire.</p>
<p>Oh, and tell Mom to burn that “Tiger Mom” book.</p>
<p>fightingirishdad, I commend you for being so gracious and open-minded to all the advice you have received. I really see that you are trying to do your best for your daughter.</p>
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<p>It may be difficult for her to be completely forthcoming, especially if she is worried that her mom may not be understanding. May I suggest that you and your wife attend one of your daughter’s therapy sessions? She may feel more comfortable expressing some of her concerns if she has an objective party to mediate the discussion. If your daughter and her therapist agrees, I believe that this scenario would allow for a more honest and open discussion.</p>
<p>I wish you the best.</p>
<p>I think posters need to take Columbia and NYU off their minds- they may be the first NYC schools that come to mind, but OP’s dau is roughly a 3.3 student. I am not sure UCB/UCLA are realistic- based on the grades and probably competiton from her hs. Dad can look at Naviance, if it’s available, and try to see how many move from that hs to one of the UCs. It also may give a better idea of the range of colleges that hs sends kids off to- they may not all be what the talk is. It can give perspective.</p>
<p>Find schools fast that might be a “win” on other terms than common prestige. A school with a fabulous music minor, finaid for study abroad, a great writing program, the outdoor progam- whatever it is, things that feel right to her, for her, that she can be proud of and excited by. </p>
<p>At 17, they don’t always have many sophisticated communication, introspection or judgment skills yet and their repertory for “fighting back” is limited. Eg, not opening up, or tossing self-loathing at you, can feel like power (or self-protectiveness or control) to them, but reflects their youth. </p>
<p>This is part of what OP is up against. We had to spoon feed, at times, some perspective and decision-making skills. Sometimes, all I could get in was one carefully thought out “parental wisdom-type” statement before she acted out. Or she’d be closed in her room and I had to go knock on her door. But, she wasn’t making the expected connections on her own and needed that, from us. In our case, I think my most-used phrase was “you still have choices.”</p>
<p>Dad needs to speak with the GC, too. One of the underlying issues seems to be the native hs pressures- not sure dau meeting with the GC will get the right advice. The convo could be from dau’s perspective only- eg, that she wants to load up on APs, that she wants NYC. For Dad to benefit from any GC advice, he may need to be there.</p>
<p>I’m not in the camp that thinks that focusing on Fordham and Hunter are a healthy way to redirect the D right now. I’d be more in the group supporting the D’s need to feel good about herself for hundreds of reasons that have nothing to do with academics. College will still be there when this teenager is healthy and ready to deal with it.</p>
<p>Blossom, I now see going across the country may not be wise- and depends on where she stands, months from now. But, when a kid is subject to hs and peer pressures about “where” and “how great,” you can’t always go cold turkey on the college discussions. She’s feeling profound loss- in her current standing and future potential. Loss of control, wrecked chances. It is so true that her dreams need to be reined in. But, there also needs to be light at the end of the tunnel. “Let’s go look at X,” some nice school within a few hours drive, with opportunities that could fit her, wth no pressure to love it or make decisions- just an outing, exploration and lunch- can keep that flame alive. It’s possible to say, we’ll cross the college bridge later, we’ll see what you’re up for later. We love you and want the best for you, but college shoiuldn’t be consumimg your thoughts right now. But, to say college is entirely off the table, for now, can be a further devastation.</p>
<p>I’m torn because what we experienced with D2, what others have gone through-- each family’s mileage will vary. I also think Dad should be in with the therapist today, be calling the GC today, and be assuring dau that they will work together.</p>
<p>I wish I’d taken college off the table - IMO, it’s more devastating to go someplace when you’re not ready to handle it, which is my daughter’s current situation. At this point, the school may be taken off the table for her because of academic failure. I know D can recover, but it will be a long, hard slog.</p>
<p>The whole college application process can be a real pressure cooker if your child’s peers are super competitive. Add in parents who have very high expectations and it’s no wonder they crumble.</p>
<p>You still seem to be focusing on getting her into a good college. At this point, she desperately needs a break from her college search. I believe your priority should be to help her heal and get her plenty of therapy ASAP. I believe the worst thing you can do is send her off to college in her fragile state of mind.</p>
<p>If she wants to go east, but you don’t want her to go to NYC, send her to DC!! We’d love to have her : )</p>
<p>Dear OP,</p>
<p>I apologize in advance if this is presumptuous, but as a CC veteran, I have to say it.</p>
<p>I am so very sorry for what your daughter has been going through emotionally this past couple of years, but reading this thread is filling me with concern for her privacy, and I think that you may be too close to the situation to see the possible violations of your daughter’s privacy here as clearly as would be optimal. </p>
<p>I think that the thread is filled with a great deal of wisdom and wonderful advice, but I nevertheless think you should get the mods or the owner of CC to take it down, or at least allow you to change the posts with the identifying info. </p>
<p>Yes, California is a big state, BUT if I were a high school kid or parent in or around Palo Alto, it would be way too easy for me to ID your kid. How many kids sing with the Stanford chorus or have that degree of connection with Stanford music, or participate in her other Stanford-related EC’s? (And don’t those who do know each other?) How many high schools are within reasonable driving distance? How many kids take voice lessons & presumably compete in Bay Area high school vocal competitions where the kids know each other? We even know where you (probably) went to college, and where her other relatives have attended.</p>
<p>Your child may well be within half a degree of separation from many parents and children on CC – and her history of depression and issues with her mom and how many times a week she sees a therapist etc. are none of their business! High school is not a kind and gentle place (and if you tell me her high school is a kind and gentle place, I’ll be able to narrow it down even further) – do her a favor and get her personal struggles, and her parents’ take on her personal struggles, out of the public eye. </p>
<p>I think it would make sense for you to change your CC name, and when you post again, not to identify your state. (As in, our state has excellent public universities, with the flagship not far away. Our child participates in music at a college level. Etc.)</p>
<p>I haven’t been on CC for a couple of years, but early on, I was able to identify a couple of kids from my own large city without any effort. When one of my kids entered college, I realized that I “knew” a kid he became very close to from CC. Please make copies of all of this excellent advice and then re-post without identifying info and a new CC name that doesn’t place your family in a specific Bay Area alumni association. You could even PM the parents who’ve been so helpful here to identify your new CC name to allow them carry on this important conversation with you.</p>
<p>^That is good advice, but I will just offer a contrasting view–I don’t know ANYONE who uses CC in my area, or even among my network of friends around the country from high school/college/working life. In other words, I don’t think there’s a need to freak out…just perhaps to take some practical steps going forward.</p>
<p>CCSurfer, no one any of us know or talk to are familiar with the fact that D has suffered with depression, had her grades drop, and had a friend who committed suicide. D has not even discussed this matter with her friends, and neither have me or DW. (For the record, we actually do not live in the Palo Alto area, or anywhere close.)</p>
<p>D is not a very open person, so there are a very select group of her friends who might recognize her ECs, but they would probably doubt that she had such a GPA or had to deal with these events in her life - they all think she has a 4.0+, and is a generally happy, humorous person, which is partially the cause for her stress: her friends’ perception of her and wanting to live up to that.</p>
<p>I have, however, asked the moderators to remove the part in my OP about D’s extracurriculars and her exact grades; without that, I don’t think anyone would be able to identify her in any way. Thank you kindly for your concern.</p>
<p>I appreciate how much you guys have supported me and genuinely care about my situation. I have learned a great deal, and I am going to apply this to D’s situation.</p>
<p>carbs, she has been very interested in DC, as she loves politics : ) </p>
<p>looking, I really like your idea about introducing her to schools in that manner. We would still be able to avoid the pressure cooker college talk, but she would be able to explore options that she may not have considered in a very low-key way. Thank you for the idea!</p>
<p>She seems intent on forgoing this journey at alone; I think she believes I am disappointed in her, besides my stating otherwise. I hope she can eventually realize that I really do care about her and her interests.</p>
<p>I am going to be absent from CC for a while in order to focus on D’s situation and the like. I will certainly read any future comments on this post, and reply to PM’s. </p>
<p>Thank you all for your help. I know i have said this many times, but it has been absolutely invaluable and eye-opening.</p>
<p>Hopefully, I’ll be back in a few weeks with positive news! : )</p>