<p>Agree that the only person who can safely sign off on less frequent therapy is the therapist. And both of the parents in this family may want to sign up for a few sessions (they are usually free) that many towns and school systems offer whenever there is a student suicide. You can invest an hour or so for one night a week listening to a panel (usually a religious leader, a psychiatrist, and perhaps a social worker from the Board of Ed or a school psychologist) who will talk about what it’s like being a vulnerable teenager in the face of a peers death.</p>
<p>I know you love your D- but I am starting to feel that you believe that recovering from a friend’s suicide is like getting over the flu- once it’s over, you are done, and moreover, you will have antibodies in your system that will prevent you from getting that strain of flu again. Most experts (and I am not one of them, just someone who has seen this played out) believe that kids who have suffered from depression or another psychological issue are especially vulnerable in the aftermath of another kid’s suffering.</p>
<p>Even just from the very limited facts you have posted here, your D has much to work through in therapy- issues of control and disparaging language from her mom; the loss of her friend; feeling a disconnect between where she thought she was heading for college and where she may need to end up (i.e. closer to home, not in NYC); feeling that she is letting down her family with her academic performance and her own issues of “not good enough”; just to mention the top line things you have mentioned.</p>
<p>This looks like a heavy burden for a teenager to work through on her own, IMHO. It’s fantastic that your D enjoys the music so much but I don’t think you can equate a dollar spent in one place with a dollar spent somewhere else. If your D needs more time with her music- can she perform once a week at a local nursing home? (They are a loving and non-critical audience). Can she join a music performance group in your community?(especially nice to perform with a diverse set of colleagues- teenagers through senior citizens).</p>
<p>When the therapist says it’s safe to cut back- then you’ve got the green light.</p>
<p>I have to agree with a couple of the other parents. Your D’s therapist is the best judge of how often she needs to seen. Plus, if she needs to go on meds, a psychiatrist is the best person to monitor this process. Until her meds are adequately managed, she will need to go to regular appts with the psychiatrist. If she had cancer, I’m sure you wouldn’t be contemplating if you should cut back on her chemo treatments because you couldn’t afford them. If she were my D, I would find the money somewhere (anywhere) to pay for her therapy.</p>
<p>Fid,
In places such as parts of CA and NYC, there is a lot of focus, comparision, and talk of who is smarter, richer, thinner, better looking, more stylish, more cool, has better toys, etc. For someone who constantly compares herself with others and bases her happiness depending on where she might fall on that scale based on the gossip, it might not be good to toss her into that type of snake pit. I would include UCLA and USC as part of those snake pits based on personal experience.</p>
<p>For D, who knows more about the large, top 20 unis, finding a good LAC could be couched in that it is also cool and enigmatic and she knows more than her friends for considering these schools. LACs have their own ranking so for a comparing gal, maybe she would be able to get into a top 20 LAC, so she could satisfy her comparing needs.</p>
<p>As for therapy, I would be really scared that she would be thinking about suicide as well, esp based on your comment in post 1. I’d be way too scared to decrease therapy and would consider increasing it instead. she can always play piano or sing on her own more frequently. What’s to stop her? Get some piano music of current pop songs that she likes and she can work on that on her own.</p>
<p>Do not give up on UCs. Not even on Berkeley. Though her grades are low for Cal, her test scores are fine. Most important of all, Cal has a supplement it sends to students whose essays indicate that they may have had to deal with a hardship or disability. If your daughter receives that supplement it will allow her to write about why her grades do not accurately reflect her ability. It will also allow her to get a teacher to write her a recommendation, which is a huge advantage that other UC applicants do not receive. It appears that San Diego has a similar program. So…be sure that your daughter mentions her struggles with depression and her friend’s suicide in her UC essay. </p>
<p>I know that other posters are concerned about the social competition in CA and NY, but I think that a few UC campuses are less prone to it, especially Berkeley and Santa Cruz. While Berkeley may be a stretch (though I really don’t think it is impossible), I think Santa Cruz is a likely admit for your daughter. While it may not have the reputation your wife craves, it is an outstanding university and has an excellent music program.</p>
<p>To make what might be considered a controversial post, I am going to say that the grades DO represent her ability, at this point in time. She may, at some point, find she can do more, because she has more emotional wherewithal. But, right now, why would we assume this?</p>
<p>The young woman will be accepted to college, given applications to the right mix of schools. We all know this. Given she is not a candidate for the top 20 (she just isn’t), we need not get caught up in some fictional “what if” story.</p>
<p>What she needs is to get some professional help, to learn to cope and to have realistic expectations. Given realistic expectations and the ability to function in college? she will likely do quite well and have a good future. But, the focus on top schools at this point is just misguided and unfair.</p>
<p>One more suggestion. When I have had students who were dealing with depression (including at least one who had made a suicide attempt), I have suggested that they volunteer in the community. It may sound strange, but when you are feeling worthless, sometimes looking inward is part of the problem. Perhaps your daughter could volunteer to play music at an assisted living facility, or help teach music after school at a local public school. Doing something like this would allow her to exercise her passion. More importantly, it would allow her to see how important she is to others. When you feel inadequate, it is hard to figure out why to get out of bed in the morning, and looking inward doesn’t really solve that. When you know that others eagerly await your arrival, and that you are doing something significant for them, it is much harder to question your worth.</p>
<p>that’s a really excellent suggestion, getting out of her head like that, doing something for somebody else, if she has the emotional energy for it, can be one of the best things anyone can do for themselves.</p>
<p>I think I was the one who said something about gentler environments. We should be clear that “gentle” is a quality you find and carefully qualify- I would not be so quick to state that things are better outside CA or NYC or in one region versus another. I could (we all could) name some LACs where the social and academic competitive pressures are intense. This problem does not automatically go away just because the campus and number of kids are smaller or it’s, eg, in the midwest. Or it’s outside the top 20. You have to remember, small schools are their own fishbowl. Some have tremendous inclinations toward conformity. </p>
<p>Some kids need the fishbowl. Others need a breather. A little less spotlight and a lot more opportunity for variety. You check the sorts of kids there, breadth of activities on campus, range of advising and academic support avaiable. And, what the “safety net” is. Many small schools have on-campus access to counseling. Some don’t. Some large schools offer more options for this sort of support, but have delays in getting appts- these are the things to be explored.</p>
<p>When the hs enviroment left little room to breathe, for heaven’s sake, be careful before choosing a college that mirrors that. There are many other considerations about where she will “fit and thrive,” but we’re not here yet, in this discussion. </p>
<p>Agree with poetgrl, her gpa is 3-3.3, that’s to be considered in choosing the right environment where she will keep balance and become empowered, rather than feel behind the 8-ball.</p>
<p>I get the feeling OP is still in the very beginning stages of identifying and tackling what’s ailing his dau.</p>
<p>And, yes- community service. The music idea is good, but sometimes working directly with the needy offers perspective and fulfillment in the process. A little roll-up-your-sleeves “real life” perspective.</p>
<p>Hugs to you, FID. There is a lot of good advice here. I don’t want to disclose much other than you are not alone. Your support is the most important thing to her right now. Give it abundantly.</p>
<p>poetgrl’s advice in #125 is excellent. It is time to radically reset expectations–yours, your wife’s and your daughter’s. Your daughter will very likely do great things in life, but getting into a “top” college is not the way she is going to start on that path. Do remind her that there are many, many high-scoring and even brilliant kids at all manner of colleges, even lesser-known LACs and “directional” state universities. </p>
<p>I agree with everyone who has said to focus primarily on her mental health and therapy, but I don’t think it’s the worst idea to have one frank family conversation to put the college aspiration topic to rest once and for all.</p>
<p>Oh, come on. You can’t be serious. This reminds me of a conversation I overheard in our grocery store between two moms. One mom said that she was writing “fictitious” college essays for her son about the terrible hardships he had to endure in order to give him an edge. It made me sick to my stomach when I heard that.</p>
<p>@aquamarine sea. There will always be people who try to scam the system. You are right, it is disgusting. However, this does not negate the fact that the OP’s daughter had a close friend commit suicide. This is a life-altering event, period. I think it would be fine to briefly reference this on the common app in the additional info section. I wouldn’t write about it in an essay. My son, who also experienced a very traumatic event, did not reference that event in his essays. However, in the additional information section, he put a three sentence blurb about what he had been through. There weren’t many details, just a reference to feeling like he was swimming through honey during that period of his life. He never got bad grades, but some of his grades did slip from A’s to A- during that time in his life.</p>
<p>Please don’t think that in any way I’m planning on used my daughter’s situation to get her into a college. I was simply wondering how they would approach such a situation. </p>
<p>D actually does do a lot of volunteer work, and I can tell it has really helped her. She teaches music to underprivileged kids, works at shelters around the city, and participates in several such organizations at school - she’s been very aware in that way for a long time. </p>
<p>The points made about NY and CA are very true; I think after all this dies down, we will start looking at small LACs and merit aid options (the statements about her need to be perfect and her competitive streak are very true.) But I do think that we will have to up the therapy and sacrifice the music. I feel like she’s been deteriorating the last few days. </p>
<p>She’s signing up for a senior year schedule full of AP classes, and I really don’t know if that’s the best way to proceed. To be honest, I don’t know anything at this point. Everything is just a giant question mark; it baffles me that W still thinks this is all a sham. </p>
<p>I can’t put into words how much the advice you’ve given has helped me over the past few days. After being consumed in the college rat race and Ivy Leagues for so long, perspective is incredibly important.</p>
<p>ETA: there were factors that contributed to her depression last year; however I would prefer not to elaborate on them here.</p>
<p>The friend’s suicide happened three weeks ago. That does not explain three semesters of declining grades.</p>
<p>(FID, I wasn’t talking to you–we cross-posted.)</p>
<p>As to your concerns about senior year, if she is not on the Ivy/elite track any more, maybe she can lighten up her schedule a bit. She might really enjoy or benefit from the AP offerings in a few subjects that especially interest her, but there’s no need to push herself beyond what she can comfortably handle while she has so much else going on.</p>
<p>Another thing–one big benefit to small LACs aid is how great kids feel when they are WANTED by colleges that see them as a “prize.” My son applied mostly to schools where he was at the top of the stats range (he had great test scores, good-but-not-great grades) and was really blown away by the attention he got…and the generous merit offers he had to choose from. Some colleges can really make kids feel special. Your daughter’s SAT score will make her a desirable candidate at a lot of really good schools–maybe just not the ones her uber-competitive classmates are considering.</p>
<p>Fighting-- keep fighting. Your love for your D comes out of every post. You are not the first parent to have to radically revamp the fantasy meter in your head as you thought you knew what the future would hold. It stinks- it stinks for your D, it stinks for your wife, and it stinks for you. But it is surely better to get a reality check now and to deal with the issues in front of you (Your D’s mental health first and foremost) than to continue to believe that this is a one-time-only episode with no real consequences for her future.</p>
<p>Believe me (and I know you won’t but I will say it anyway); having a healthy and confident D (even if she is folding sweaters at the Gap after HS grad and is taking a year off) will be a better outcome for everyone than continuing to plan and push and coax her into bringing up her grades this semester in light of what she’s dealing with. Her future (I mean the next 80 years) are far too precious to sacrifice for the sake of bragging rights on her GPA or where she gets in to college or the sticker on your car.</p>
<p>You want her healthy and cheerful and confident and highly functioning for the next 80 years. That may mean some investment in her mental health right now which siphons off cash from music lessons and whatever else is on the family priority list.</p>
<p>Her GC and therapist will surely have a point of view on the best way to maximize her intellectual growth next year while not sacrificing her mental health and it may or may not include a boat load of AP’s. US History or Calculus will all still be there.</p>
<p>FightingIrishDad, I feel for all of you. We live in a high pressure area that sounds remarkably similar to what you describe and it can be overwhelming to so many kids. She sounds like a sensitive kid who takes in too much. I agree with everyone who has emphasized the need for therapy and parental support over college planning. </p>
<p>My guess is that your wife is anxious and worried about your D and expresses her worry in misplaced ways that are harmful. I hope you or a counselor can help her to translate her love for your D into a positive and encouraging message. To all 3 of you I’d say, keep your minds firmly on the long view. Consider not only her future career and fulfillment but her future relationship with her parents. Health, confidence, love will all take your girl much farther than a 4.0 gpa and an undergraduate degree from her “dream” school. Nor is there a race to the finish line. She has lots of time to finish high school, in any way that works for her, and time to broaden her perspective before heading to college. She sounds like an engaged, talented girl who shares her gifts with others. I hope you are able to reflect this back to her, over and over and over. It takes time and you may hear lots of negativity from her but slowly, slowly those positive messages do creep in.</p>
<p>I’ve been reading along and, OP, I really sympathize with you. You’ve gotten really good advice. We’ve been through similar issues with our D. Please realize that her issues will not be resolved by September. This is a long, ongoing process that may require therapy and medication for years. Keep this in mind when talking about college. Closer to parents is good. So is “low stress, low pressure.” Top colleges may just be too much right now. She can always transfer when she’s feeling better. There are too many stories here on CC about kids’ “failing” during freshman year, often because they just weren’t emotionally ready. There is no shame in waiting until the timing is right for everyone before going to college (or at least going away to college).</p>
<p>“We were surprised at D’s 89 because she had maintained a high A the whole semester, and as she wants to major in English, we were not shocked, but surprised.” - Hopefully you are beyond any worry here. An 89 in a challenging English course is a victory. Good luck!</p>
<p>The GC can mention the stress of losing her friend. In fact, you should be in touch with the GC now, too, to discuss the right courseload for fall. And etc.</p>