Would you think my D. was nuts if she.....

Parents Forum
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<p>Picking up on what TheDad said (and I agree with and was thinking to post before he did...we must think alike on this one thing anyway, lol)....</p>

<p>This has nothing to do with Oberlin but I think many many parents/kids on these forums over the years have written about not liking a college OFTEN based on the impression from the tour guide. I have two thoughts on that. One is, like The Dad says, since this happens quite often it seems, colleges really really really need to think about this "front" person and the first impressions as so many kids are deciding if they like a school or not based on the tour and the guide him/herself. If I were an admissions staffer, I would think lots about this critical part of the link because this person is the person from whom lots of the prospectives are basing their opinions of the entire school!</p>

<p>My second thought is this....and truly this is not about any poster on this thread...but it is very very important, when piecing together a college visit, to do WAY more than the basic info. session and tour. I read so many folks who ONLY do that on their visits. Surely it is a GREAT place to start (we did these too at every school) and also is better than doing nothing, but to just do that, is a very limited view of the school....it is mostly the PR stuff and the basics, and also there is that element of basing "impressions" on the actual tour guide you get (as we can see in this Oberlin example). If possible, it really helps to add in some of these elements: meet with faculty in your area of interest, attend a class, meet with faculty or students who run your extracurricular area of interest, eat in the cafeteria, walk around the surrounding area/town, read the student publications, go to the student center, do an overnight, approach students on campus and ask to see their dorm rooms (we did this alot and not only benefitted from seeing many kinds of housing, but also got into many casual conversations with random kids who are not the "cheerleader" for the college as the tour guide is meant to be, plus learned lots of first hand information this way), approach kids in the cafeteria and ask how they like the school and why they chose it, and all that kind of thing. If you do these things, you not only learn more about the school and can determine better if it is a good "fit" but also you are talking to way more than one student there to garner many perspectives, plus not just talking to the "rep" the admissions officer provided for the tour. This also can alleviate that you might get a tour guide who is SOOOOOOO different from your own kid but that does not mean that everyone else on campus is as well. </p>

<p>From reading posts here for a few years, I can tell that a lot of kids are basing if they like a school or what the typical student is like, based on the tour guide. I would talk to a kid BEFORE the college trips to look beyond that person before generalizing. Also, colleges might want to think deeply about the tour guides because apparently a lot of folks out there are making their impressions based on this which is kinda too bad. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>susan:
Yeah, I totally agree with the further research idea. The tough part is that not all kids are amenable to that. They get a "picture" in their mind and then have toruble seeing around that. Given that this college process is pretty tough, I think they are naturally looking for a way to develop a gut instinct. Do you know what I mean, I don't think I've expressed it very well!</p>

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<p>"They get a "picture" in their mind and then have toruble seeing around that. Given that this college process is pretty tough, I think they are naturally looking for a way to develop a gut instinct."</p>

<p>weenie: that is SO right! I think my daughter is very much like that.</p>

<p>dave: In NO way was I trying to demean Oberlin, AT ALL. I thought it was a wonderful place. My husband, when he was just back there last week, was incredibly impressed with the professors, the panel, the presentation. He really felt that Oberlin was a place that could really develop a person to his or her fullest potential; an intellectually stimulating and nurturing college that could bring out the best in a person and give them an extroadinary education in a unique setting. My husband went on to say that any student who is looking for that kind of place should strongly consider Oberlin, and I agree! In fact, my middle D., the one who is going for a BFA in dance at a large U., would fit perfectly at Oberlin, and would truly love it, were she not intent upon receiving a professional dance education instead of a B.A. in dance. My original post was only trying to get advice regarding my youngest daughter's dilemna; that is, not feeling comfortable in some ways at a place, and sort of wanting "permission" to choose a school with a lesser academic reputation. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.</p>

<p>Thank you all so much for all of your opinions; they were very helpful, and I know my daughter appreciated hearing from so many of you. As of now, she is 99% certain she will go to UVM in the fall.</p>

<p>Judy</p>

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<p>To echo what everyone else has said, I think your daughter should follow her instinct to UVM. Fit is a HUGE issue for LAC's, particularly rural/small-town ones. FWIW, I spent a great deal of time at Oberlin during college (I was seriously dating a student there for two years and moved in with him during all my breaks). While there are mainstream-liberal kids there, the granola current in the culture is not something to be taken lightly. If it made her uncomfortable, and she has another good college option, then that's the end of the analysis as far as I'm concerned, because it's something all Obies, including the mainstream kids, have to deal with.</p>

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<p>Could you please report back next year how things are going for her? My son has very similar statistics scholastically and we may be in the same boat next year.</p>

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<p>Judy, when this whole "big topic" amongst seniors ends, it is not even gonna matter which of the two she chose. It is only gonna matter that she enjoys where she went. In this instance, it sounds like the better fit or at least she is going off with enthusiasm.</p>

<p>I am enthusiastic because that means we can be her fall back "second home" when she is at college! Hey, I won't have any daughters around....I can be there if she needs it! Next fall, all this debating about where to go will be behind her....she will not be in high school...she will have moved on and should enjoy her new school. </p>

<p>The thing at UVM by the way, is you might have the "granola culture" (I learned that term on CC and I think I get it)....but it will be MIXED together with many different types of kids. Therefore, it might be easier to find her own particular "niche".....plus the shopping is better, just kidding.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Judy: I COMPLETELY understood your situation, and said from the outset that I agreed that your D should choose the school she thinks is the best fit for her. I would never try to talk her (or anyone) into coming to Oberlin if she doesn't want to--after all, it makes my job harder if a student isn't happy. My only reason for speaking up at all was that I was hearing a chorus of people articulating why Oberlin hadn't been a good fit for their child, and thought it important to get the other point of view onto the table. For many people (myself included), it's exactly the right place. I'm glad to know you and your husband appreciate that.</p>

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<p>Wnydancemom -- Like the majority of posters, I think your D should 'go with her gut' and choose a college where she feels comfortable. My D looked very seriously (visited three times) at Oberlin and its conservatory and, in the end, she just did not feel comfortable there. She chose to go elsewhere. Oberlin attracts certain kinds of students and it is absolutely the right place for those for whom it 'clicks' - but not everyone.</p>

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<p>With due respect to Oberlin, no one watches Women's lacrosse at any school.</p>

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<p>I'm actually from Oberlin, and I'm transferring out for much the same reasons as your daughter. If she feels the students at Oberlin are too liberal for her, then they probably are. I thought I was the most liberal person I knew - until I got to Oberlin. After some time, the nearly homogenously hyper-liberal students will grate on her nerves.</p>

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<p>I agree totally with SoozieVT and several others here - If your DD was put off by things at Oberlin and feels that UVM honors college is a more viable choice - better 'fit' - more comfortable place to be for her - let her go with her gut. It is a great school with lots of opportunities for her - she will do very well I am sure - and will definitely have that total college experience she talks about there.</p>

<p>And I definitely would NOT think of her as NUTS - but following her heart - to go where her soul wants to be.</p>

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<p>Once again, thank you ALL for your input. My D. has decided on UVM, and is happy and confident, as of now, that she is making the right choice for her. Though she did say she felt a little sad, returning the Oberlin card (but not as sad as she would have felt if she "let UVM go.") </p>

<p>I think the mid-sized university will fit her very well; big, not TOO big; different kinds of students; many opportunities in the Honors college to form close relationships with professors and have small classes; MANY different majors (good for an undecided kid); great social atmosphere, lots to do, skiing, cool college town; etc. She did not get into the other mid-sized U's she applied to: waitlisted at Tufts and Brandeis, though she actually liked the feel of UVM better than those two.</p>

<p>We probably made a mistake (again, for HER), letting her apply to so many LACs (Skidmore, Pitzer, Occidental, Vassar (waitlist), Oberlin), which is what she THOUGHT she wanted (she was impressed by Loren Pope's books). Even though she mostly concentrated on the larger ones (over 2000), I think she felt ultimately that they were too small (but didn't realize this until too late). She was also strongly against very large U's, like UMich, where her sister goes; this surprised me, because she had a fabulous time visiting her, going to the football game (go BLUE!), going to frat parties and house parties, etc. (and yet she maintains that she DOES NOT want a school that is dominated by frats!). So I think UVM will be perfect. All in all, she is a somewhat typical high school student who really may not have known what she wanted. Even with all the research we did, she made way too many snap judgements that seemed to me to be very inaccurate, based on first impressions (Tufts - too preppy; Case - too geeky; Rochester -- too close to home {well, it is,}) --- very exasperating to me, especially since my DH tends to be the same way!!! </p>

<p>In retrospect, even though D. is very stubborn and opinionated and too quick to judge, I think I would have at least tried to get her to re-examine her ?false first impressions. I usually just let it go, because arguing with her is SO counter productive, and I am the brunt of lots of sarcasm, etc!! (anyone else???) However, it really is very difficult to find good, non- religious, mid-sized (say, 4000 - 10,000) Universities that are NOT super difficult to get into (i.e. WUSL, Duke, JHU, Northwestern, Ivies, Stanford) or just too hard to get to from Buffalo: (i.e. Emory, Tulane, U of Miami). I have looked through college guides dozens of times!</p>

<p>Good luck to anyone who might be reading this who is beginning the college search!!! And, INSIST on overnights at colleges to get a real feel for the students and campus; I wish we had, as my D. was way too influenced by the tour guides. Again, she didn't want to do the overnights, and against my better judgement, I didn't force the issue.</p>

<p>Thanks, again! I will report back after 1st semester next year.
Judy</p>

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<p>
[quote]
All in all, she is a somewhat typical high school student who really may not have known what she wanted. Even with all the research we did, she made way too many snap judgements that seemed to me to be very inaccurate, based on first impressions (Tufts - too preppy; Case - too geeky; Rochester -- too close to home {well, it is,}) --- very exasperating to me, especially since my DH tends to be the same way!!! </p>

<p>In retrospect, even though D. is very stubborn and opinionated and too quick to judge, I think I would have at least tried to get her to re-examine her ?false first impressions. I usually just let it go, because arguing with her is SO counter productive, and I am the brunt of lots of sarcasm, etc!! (anyone else???)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Mom, Mom, Mom - if you try to get your spouse to re-examine his snap judgments, how often are you successful? And more telling, how often are you successful when under time constraints to make a decision? Yeah, I thought so.
Seriously, unless you are talking about a tremendous difference in educational quality between 2 schools, or a large difference in cost, large enough to impact that child's life for years to come; or other special circumstances like illness; you are in a no win situation after you initially outline the pros and cons - teens by and large are not going to acknowledge that they heard you. Now I think that they listen and hear very well, they just never admit they are wrong out loud - they admit it by doing things like applying to half a dozen LACs but accepting the larger school, because way late in the process they realize LACs are too small! She is much better off going to the school that she is excited about, because she doesn't fit into those special circustances I mentioned before.</p>

<p>Your other comment about mid-sized unis is true, they are quite attractive for a number of reasons, which means the famous ones are hard to get into. A lot of the non-famous ones are in the South and Midwest, and I can appreciate the travel difficulty. I'm assuming the SUNYs were a non-starter, the equivalent in my state were no go here.</p>

<p>She will be fine, as happy as if she did all the college visiting stuff - report back next winter.</p>

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<p>As a parent of a pretty mainstream son heading to Oberlin in the fall, I find all this talk of the school's quirky atmosphere a little unsettling. My son's politics are still being formulated, but he actually has a lot of conservative leanings. He's not a hippie in any sense, except maybe that he likes hiking and fishing rather than competitive team sports. But he visited there last week and assured me that there are plenty of "normal" kids there and felt like it's definitely right place for him. Hope he's right...</p>

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<p>"Mom, Mom, Mom - if you try to get your spouse to re-examine his snap judgments, how often are you successful?"</p>

<p>Cangel: Funny! Actually, after 28 years of marriage, I've become a lot more successful!</p>

<p>mchs: If your son thinks it's definitely the right place for him, it very likely is! No worries; he sounds like the kind of kid who will not only fit in, but will make it work for him.</p>

<p>Good luck to everyone, and thanks again. D. is planning on going to orientation with us in June; then, she will do "Trek," a one week wilderness type adventure thing that is optional, the week before move-in day in August. It sounds VERY cool...wish they had it for parents!</p>

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<p>Wyndancemom, Congratulations - sounds like your daughter has made a good choice for her needs. And, in the end, that's all that really matters.Good luck to her!</p>