<p>3.5 could get you into a medical school. But getting into a top medical school I’d say you need a 3.8. A GPA lower than a 3.4 is not worth it at a prestigious university imo. All in all you’ll be working hard as a premed, working hard in med school, working hard in ur residency internships, and working hard for the rest of your life. </p>
<p>At least you’ll get paid well!</p>
<p>Thanks for the input, I agree. Any other ideas on when a low GPA is not worth it at a prestigious university? Also, can anyone comment on the rumor that it’s impossible to do well at WUSTL?</p>
<p>Pirouette: I’m a parent who had a kid at WashU, and currently has one at Michigan. The WashU kid is now in medical school, the Michigan kid is off to a different career. Getting a high GPA will be hard at both. The average student coming in to WashU may have higher test scores and GPA, but the pre-meds at Michigan will be a very bright bunch, and there will be tons of them, because it’s a much larger school. </p>
<p>The way to choose is simple: Go where you think you will be happiest. To put toether a successful med school resume, you need a high GPA, good clinical experience and a well rounded list of activities. That’s a tall order. It is more likely to happen if you have happy in your environment.</p>
<p>"The way to choose is simple: Go where you think you will be happiest. To put toether a successful med school resume, you need a high GPA, good clinical experience and a well rounded list of activities. That’s a tall order. It is more likely to happen if you have happy in your environment. "</p>
<p>-Agree 100%.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the great advice Mythreesons, I agree 100% as well – may I ask what your kid who went to WashU majored in, and where he/she is going to med school now?</p>
<p>He majored in economics. He’s at a fine medical school, but not a top 20 program.</p>
<p>pirouette,
My D. is graduating from non-flagship state school and has been accepted to couple top 20 Med. Schools. It really does not matter where your going UG and waht is your major. Waht counts is your stats, what you did in 4 years in UG, and how you have developed as a person, all of which is easier to accomplish if you are happy there. If, in addition, you do not have to pay a dime in tuition because of Merit awards, it will help paying for Med. School.</p>
<p>Johny,</p>
<p>Remember. You are a high school student. You are not a college student. You are not a med student. You aren’t event a future med student yet. To conclude that you know precisely what top med schools are looking for (which, briefly, you seem to conclude is purely numbers (gpa, mcat, hours in clincs) based), and then to conclude what you have to do to get there (go to a school regardless of fit), and what impact that will have on your social life (that you must sacrifice it) is foolish. </p>
<p>I’ve been throught high school. I’m graduating from college in two weeks. I’ll be an M1 in July. I took the classes, prepped for the MCAT, and applied as smartly and efficiently as I could. I had a great undergrad career (details are all over this board), a (dare I say it!) enjoyable application process, and am seriously looking forward to med school. I have great friends, brilliant mentors, and lots of fun. I did great in classes, found meaningful extracurriculars, have only missed 2 home football games in 4 years, and know all the downtown weekly bar specials because I have time to go out too. My school fits me perfectly and it shows: I’m positive my success here is related to the great fit.</p>
<p>Many of the posters here have done the same as I have or have watched their children do it. To just dismiss their advice as you have been is getting a little obnoxious.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice all, I am currently leaning toward Wash U. I would also like to know… what kind of aid do medical schools offer? Is it almost all need-based like undergrad, or is there merit aid or what? Thanks.</p>
<p>Any actual grants/scholarships are merit based only…nothing is need based…everything else is loans. That is why everyone who has been through it tries to caution high schoolers to minimize their undergrad debt because you are highly likely to rack up significant debt in Med school.</p>
<p>My S is an MS3 and graduated UG debt free…many of his peers started Med school $150-250K in debt and by graduation will have added $150K on top of it. He tells us every time we talk about how fortunate he feels to not be saddled with the UG debt load that so many of his friends have.</p>
<p>For example, he is about to start his residency applications. If he only applies to 30 programs he could easily run up $8-10K in expenses for applications and travel to interviews and that may be conservative based on where he is offered interviews…that’s all either on your parents or loans for you. That $8-10K is in addition to his tuition and living expenses for next year.</p>
<p>Med school is very expensive…if you have the ability to limit your expense at a school that is a good fit for you, I encourage you to strongly consider it.</p>
<p>Kristin</p>
<p>For a HS student he (johny) sure thinks he knows more than those who have been through it. Everyone “knows” someone who went to medical school but it’s a lot different than actually living though it or walking in their shoes…I stopped trying 15 posts ago…</p>
<p>pirouette</p>
<p>You’d be well served to listen to those who have been there, not those who haven’t even set foot in college yet.</p>
<p>I’m off my soapbox.</p>
<p>kristin quote: *have only missed 2 home football games in 4 years, and know all the downtown weekly bar specials because I have time to go out too. *</p>
<p>I knew I liked this young lady. :)</p>
<p>and, congrats on your graduation that is coming up! :)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I’ve never claimed that I know more about the process than people who have gone through it. It’s getting more than annoying when people constantly assume things.</p></li>
<li><p>You guys aren’t even disproving my argument. You’re simply telling me I’m a high school student and therefore I am wrong. I’m on here for help and clarification. It would be more helpful if you stopped concentrating on my age and more on the actual merit of my argument. </p></li>
<li><p>A Cornell premed advisor told me first hand that as a premed I would be sacrificing a social life in order to excel in my premed career. That is all that I’m saying. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t have a social life at all. Stop assuming!</p></li>
<li><p>I also agree that the environment does play an important role in premed success. But that does not mean environment plays the same role for everyone!</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here is the information I used to allege that you are claiming such a thing:</p>
<p>From mcat2, whose son is applying now after having taken a year off: I would think you should pay more attention to the “fit” factor outside of academics than “which school may better prepare me for a future in medicine”. This is because all the schools you mentioned are more than good enough for premeds. The more important thing is that, if a student has a relatively good/balanced day-to-day life (e.g., the academic is challenging/interesting enough for the student while he/she is still able to maintain life outside of the academic by allocating time for ECs.), it is more likely he/she will do reasonably well as a premed. </p>
<p>From eadad, whose son is an MS3 in Texas (in reference to the mcat2 post I just referenced): Very good advice overall…“fit” is very important…there will certainly be more things to offer outside of academics.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, whose daughter is part of a BS/MD program and who has collected multiple acceptances this cycle: "I would think you should pay more attention to the “fit” factor outside of academics than “which school may better prepare me for a future in medicine” -Agree, the most important factor. </p>
<p>mcat2, eadad, and MiamiDAP are reliable knowledgeable sources. So your conclusion:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>“Feels” like you’re saying that what mcat2 and eadad said was incorrect, and that your opinion is right, which is where I concluded that you must believe you know more about this process than those going through it. </p>
<p>Additionally, statements like this:
from someone still in high school don’t tend to go over well on this forum because the fact of the matter is that no one knows what such cutoffs are because they’re so dependent on other factors unique to each applicant. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s a pretty bold move to talk about and analyze a process you haven’t been through while also discounting the helpful and true advice you’ve received. What I meant was that as a high school student, your conclusions about this process have no credibility because you haven’t been through any of these processes you’ve drawn conclusions about. I understand you’re here for help and clarification–I mean, I think that’s why most people are here in the first place–so then why do you have so many objections to the advice you’re offered? To have respected posters say something like “Fit is tremendously important in choosing an undergrad school” and then for you to respond “No it’s not!” comes off as obnoxious, which is the point I was making.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I said sacrificing, not eliminating. But again, this conclusion: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Certainly “feels” like you are, again, drawing conclusions about a process you don’t have much (any?) first hand information about. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I wonder if you’re attributing too much of the “fit” factor to the environment. It’s not so much the physical environment that determines fit as it is the intangibles of the school: how well you think you’d fit in there, how well you jive with the current students, how accessible your professors are, whether you feel comfortable, whether you think you’ll be adequately challenged, etc. It’s not so much about the physical hills outside your dorm room as it is about the people and resources available.</p>
<p>Of course fit depends on the person. No one was ever disagreeing with that statement. In fact, that’s almost the only thing fit really depends on.</p>
<p>Sorry to hijack your thread Pirouette! Glad you can find the advice you were seeking even though there are a few different directions going on in this thread now :)</p>
<p>johny1, regarding your post:
I heard being extremely good at socializing could be a ticket to a lucrative career. For example, if a student is “popular” enough in a well-known college and can get enough votes to be elected as the president/leader of a major club/newspaper at a school, a lot of doors could open for him/her (as compared to somebody who just studies very hard in the library and slaved in a research lab every weekend and is not able to get any votes from peer students to be a leader in a student organization, the one who is a social-elite who happens to be “good enough” in most premed classes also, may have more chances to be admitted to a top school.
I know of an A/B student (not an URM) who got into Harvard Law mostly because he had been elected as a leader in some prestigious student club in his junior year (and doing well enough in LSAT, of course.)</p>
<p>I think for one career path only, the study/academic is (almost) everything. It is called the graduate school. You also need research (but not volunteering) to convince them you are really into this.</p>
<p>The other day, I read something about how many students from DS’s college received some forms of national awards (the prestige of the awards >= Fulbright) in the past couple of years (often 20-30 a year). Considering the fact that roughly the same number of students are admitted into an extremely elite medical school, no wonder why those who only score well in their premed classes but who have not had other personal achievements outside of the classroom will likely be passed over for one of these opportunities. (Of course, not all Fulbright/Rhode winners are into medicine. They may choose other career paths.)</p>
<p>Study very hard, and you may get into some medical schools (but not necessarily the very top one.) Well…in some disciplines, studying very hard starting from freshman year or even high school, may not guarantee a very good grade. For example, foreign languages (many top students are already very fluent in that language by then) or music (not only talents needed, but also a long-term commitment since childhood, like 4-5 years old, may also be needed.)</p>
<p>^^ mcat2 you have a pretty solid argument. I agree with you. Like i said at the end of that quote “generally”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well the OP asked for some numbers and I gave them to him. And its so OBVIOUS that there are no definitive cutoffs. We all know that, but it was nice of you to point it out. I was giving him some guidelines and thats all that they were. From looking at lots of school data… mdapplicants and just CC those seem like reasonable numbers… </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>lol… u quoted the beginning of that post and you completely ignored the rest… so no comment on this…</p>
<p>I love the part where you say “your opinion is right”…by definition no opinion is right… and i acknowledge that it is an opinion.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve already made that clear. And you guys on this board seem to love reminding me of this. I already know that. If my objections are so far fetched and juvenile… why do you entice me by making these large and antagonistic posts?</p>
<p>I also loved the whole paragraph about “I’m a soon to be med student and ive gone through college yadad yada” whats the purpose of this? You are trying to prove to people on the internet that you are somebody by typing it in? Your credentials are just as verifiable as mine. Only mine are more believable since they aren’t as condescending… if that paragraph was help you validate your self-worth all the power to you…</p>
<p>And heres another tip since you seem to be fond of them… focus more on the content of what people write on these boards and less on their context… you are creating biases before you even give the writer a chance…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Then what was your previous post even about? And what was anybody’s post attacking me about? It seems that you finally understand. All that I was arguing was that some people strive in stressful and negative atmospheres. It all depends on the person. Let that conclude this post.</p>
<p>And P.S Kristin… I actually helped the OP by responding to his original question about WUSTL vs UMich and answered his cutoff questions… you on the other hand elected to pick a fight with johny1 (a supposedly pretentious high schooler who knows everything). So ask yourself now, how does that make you look? A real doctor would have dismissed my shortcomings or wouldn’t have indulged herself in such peevish behaviors.</p>
<p>Hello, it is I, the elusive OP! lol</p>
<p>Thanks for all the responses to this topic, which has definitely taken a different turn from what I expected. The general answer I seem to be getting in response to this question here and at other forums is that the journey to medical school is tough, and that one must have impressive ECs and community service in addition to fantastic grades. This is easiest accomplished at a school where one has a good support system and where one will be happy. </p>
<p>Although I’ve always had a soft spot for UMich since it’s the first school that I got in to, I believe the resources and atmosphere at WashU are more for me. While academics have been and will always be my top priority, I agree with most of you that it’s important to make friends and have a life, and I believe that will be possible for me at WashU. I loved the vibe of the students when I visited, and I know I will feel comfortable in that community. </p>
<p>I still have some waitlists that I am going to wait out, but on the offchance I get off of any of them, WashU will be a tough offer to turn down. Thanks again for everyone’s input. I’d now like to ask for testimonials from anyone who attended or is attending WashU as a pre-med undergrad, or even medical school. Any input you guys can offer me is greatly appreciated!</p>