<p>Hi everyone, I am a current senior in high school and I've been accepted to both Wash U and UMich for undergraduate studies. I intend on majoring in either biology, neuroscience, or public health (I put biology on my apps), but I'm interested in a future in medicine (specifically obtaining an MD). </p>
<p>I've seen past threads about Wash U vs. UMich, but they were relating to their medical schools. I was wondering if anyone had any input as to which school may better prepare me for a future in medicine? In addition to these two, I've also been waitlisted at Johns Hopkins, which was my original "first choice." Should I fight for entrance -- is there something I'm "missing" by not attending there?</p>
<p>I am OOS for UMich, and I am also aware that entrance to medical school depends mostly on grades and MCAT scores. I know both are great schools, but I'd really love some other people's input on the two (as well as JHU). Thanks!</p>
<p>I would think you should pay more attention to the “fit” factor outside of academics than “which school may better prepare me for a future in medicine”. This is because all the schools you mentioned are more than good enough for premeds. The more important thing is that, if a student has a relatively good/balanced day-to-day life (e.g., the academic is challenging/interesting enough for the student while he/she is still able to maintain life outside of the academic by allocating time for ECs.), it is more likely he/she will do reasonably well as a premed. </p>
<p>You really do not learn anything very deep in undergraduate. However, as a premed, you really need to maintain very good grades and MCAT scores as well as being able to have a life outside of academics (the ECs that medical school adcoms like to see.) An oversimplified analogy is that, a student needs to take SAT math I subject test, which is by itself not very hard. However, you are required to not miss more than one question or even answer every question correctly in order to pass. This kind of academic performance is required by a successful premeds. (Of course, the material is not as simple as SAT Math I. the the bar is set just as high.) For example, many premeds may take algebra-based physics in college as a premed while the same student might have taken the calculus-based AP physics C. But the former may be harder just because you can not miss many questions while for the latter, you can miss tons of questions and still get a 5 on the AP test.</p>
<p>Also, do not go to a school (or a major) where you will likely be overwhelmed.</p>
<p>^ Very good advice overall…“fit” is very important…there will certainly be more things to offer outside of academics at Michigan and also a very good overall “traditional” undergrad experience.</p>
<p>Wash U has far less of this due to its lack of big time sports and the fact that it is a more urban school. Wash U may also be a bit more “intense” competitively than Michigan due to the “type” of students that tend to gravitate to Wash U…a little bit more “type A” approaching “nerdy” …(don’t want to offend anyone here) whereas Michigan kids tend to be very smart and more well rounded…</p>
<p>These are stereotypes know but they are not far off, I assure you.</p>
<p>Also don’t pick a school based on its Med School…</p>
<p>Hi, thanks so much for the great advice both of you. I briefly visited Michigan a few years ago, but I have never visited Wash U, so I am going to visit both this month for in depth admitted student experiences. </p>
<p>I am admittedly daunted by some of the stories I hear about pre-med at Wash U, but I read a user’s argument that Wash U would not have accepted you if they did not think you were up for the challenge. Any commentary on that perspective?</p>
<p>Also, I come from a small private school, so most of the students in my class (myself included maybe lol) I believe would be classified as “type A nerdy.” I know Michigan and all big 10 schools are wonderful and full of opportunities, but I don’t think I’d feel too out of place at Wash U for that reason. And that’s really good advice to not pick a school because of its med school…</p>
<p>Any other opinions are appreciated! Thanks.</p>
<p>Hey Piroutte, I’m a junior at WashU. I’ve been off the boards cause its been crazy busy getting ready for medschools apps. Personal statement and all that. But if you have any questions or you ever come down to visit PM me. This coming weekend is celebration/multiculti weekend so if you’re coming to that you’ll have lots of chances to talk to premeds. I love being premed at WashU and I don’t regret being here or wish that I’d gone anywhere else.</p>
<p>I had kids go to both WashU and UMich, and you’ll do well at both. The WashU kid is now in medical school and WashU was great for him. I think WashU brought out the best in him. He had a great time and met great friends, but being around such high caliber folks really helped him maximize his potential, which is essential to put together the resume you need for medical school. On the other hand, some may prefer the big time college sports/campus town atomosphere of UMich, as my other (accountant) son did. </p>
<p>If I would give an edge to WashU in one area (and I don’t think one should choose based on this) it is advising. UMich has little in the way of that. WashU, on the other hand, guided my son not very aggressive son every step of the way. They had a program where, for credit, he got to work in the hospital’s emergency room, so he got his shadowing in through school. They also required him to work on his personal statement from very early in his junior year, commented on drafts of that, had mock interviews, etc. I can’t personally say what UMich has in this area, but my kid there pretty much had to get advice on his own by finding a friendly professor in his area.</p>
<p>"I would think you should pay more attention to the “fit” factor outside of academics than “which school may better prepare me for a future in medicine”</p>
<p>-Agree, the most important factor.
However, I also agree that advising is very important factor in Med. School application process even for those who are more assertive and have definite ideas what they are looking for in Medical school. With all factors the same, including your personal “fit”, go to school with better advising. However, first consider your “fit” to UG in regard to your personality and all interests, including the ones outside of medicine.</p>
<p>In regard to comment “do not go to…a major where you will likely be overwhelmed”, my D. did although it was a minor, not major. She did simply because she wanted to. She does not easily give up her dreams and it has worked for her so far. Yes, sometime it did not work in her favor to be in the same class with people who had extensive training in certain area that she had no training at all. She loves challenges and just had to work a bit harder to bring herself up to level of others around her. (I was talking about singing classes in her Music minor). So, it depends on personality. I believe that follow your passions will always bring positive results, even sometime just trying and not exactly achieving your goal. Although having minor is not important at all in Med. School application process, music was the most common topic of D’s interviews, not Med. Research, not trips abroad. Funny, isn’t it?</p>
<p>I’m a HS senior also and I don’t agree with this: </p>
<p>""I would think you should pay more attention to the “fit” factor outside of academics than “which school may better prepare me for a future in medicine”</p>
<p>I don’t know if I am young and naive, but I don’t care about this “fit” factor. It depends on person to person. A lot of people on this forum seem to be advocating the fit idea of how you click into the society of your school and atmosphere. </p>
<p>As a premed your number 1 goal should be to get into medical school and to be prepared for it. Therefore if the school that I am going to has the academic capabilities to do that then I consider it a good school. If I don’t like the way the hill outside of my dorm is shaped or how its always cold, if the campus is too far from my house or too close, if I dont fit in with my my classmates I’ll just suck it up. I’ll adapt. That’s part of college experience too. No college will be perfect for you. You will have to change things. Don’t get me wrong the fit factor can be super important for people who are very concerned with that sort of stuff (aka they have a hard time adjusting or adapting to their new environment) but I think you should assess your personality and characteristics and if you are like a lot of premeds I know you’ll adapt.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all the responses! I have now visited wash u and I loved the atmosphere and the curriculum, so I know I’ll be well prepared if I attend. I intend on visiting Michigan next week to see how I feel.</p>
<p>Sorry I’m on my phone so I have to be brief but can anyone comment for any of the following?
The wash u social scene… I know it can’t match a big 10 school but are parties easy to find? Lol Ive read multiple views on this, just wanted more…
Is the pre med advising really lacking at mich?
Is research super competitive at mich because of the size of the school?
How do the difficulty of the pre med courses at each compare?
How do the tutoring resources for tough courses at each school compare?</p>
<p>College isn’t just a “stepping stone” to medical school. Why be miserable at a school for 4 years, only to get into medical school? It isn’t worth it. </p>
<p>If you are going to use the logic that your number 1 goal as a college student should be to get into medical school then you might also spend your entire 4 years of college just studying and not hanging out with friends. As a result, you will be disappointed when you get into a medical school and you realize that all your medical school classmates had great social lives as undergrads, while you missed out…</p>
<p>To get into a good medical school takes a lot of work for the average premed. Most of them probably don’t have rich social lives. Unless you are super good at time management it is very difficult to study get good grades get into medical school and at the same time party every weekend. I think if you are going to be a doctor you will have to be miserable at some point in order to be happy later on. High school you study hard for good grades SATs to get into a good college. In college you study even harder for a GPA and for MCATS plus intense research and clinical hours, med school you do even more than both of those and read like crazy study for another exam for your residency. residency you never sleep you are on call, you have to read lots of current medical articles…its such a sad and grindy process.</p>
<p>plus if you intend to do engineering premed expect even more work…</p>
<p>even if you have a social life it will be limited at best (provided you want to go to a very good med school and you aren’t a super genius) </p>
<p>if you really care about your social life don’t go into medicine or go into medicine but don’t put all of your effort into it:expect not to go to your top choice med school and maby even not even your preferred residency. </p>
<p>Its all a balance. you cant have your cake and eat it too.</p>
<p>Since there have been numerous studies (and plenty of anecdotal evidence) that say that fit is very important, I guess you are correct, you are “young and naive.” Do NOT underestimate this.</p>
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<p>You’d be very surprised…having balance is very important…you’d also be surprised how many Med students manage to have balance and a social life…at least until MS3 when clinical rotations begin. To be fair, yes most don’t party EVERY weekend, but many spend a lot more time with stress relief than you might think.</p>
<p>I’ve had several Doctors who interview at UTSW, UT-Houston, and Baylor tell me that if they see a candidate who did nothing but study and work to build a CV and had no balance in their studies/social life that they often actually recommend NOT offering a spot in the class. They want people who are “interesting”…hard to be “interesting” if you are not well rounded.</p>
<p>Take it for what it’s worth but there are plenty of people here who have already successfully been through the process yet you, as a HS student, are questioning their advice and counsel. A very wise man once told me this: “God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason”…think about it, it will serve you well in the future.</p>
Well said!
DS likely had a balanced life during college, judging from what many interviewers said to him. (several of them complimented his achievement outside of premed/academics.) Actually, he might have placed his life outside of premed a little too much emphasis.</p>
<p>Can you provide links to some of these numerous studies?</p>
<p>I know a couple of people who have also gone through the medical process and have told me that it does in fact vary person by person. Some people just love to place themselves in an environment that they think they wouldn’t like. Its a challenge and its something different.</p>
<p>I am not saying that fit isn’t very important I’m just saying it depends on the person (you can’t disagree with that).</p>
<p>I think interacting with the environment around you helps you to become a better doctor as you need to have a good understanding of people and society. You can get a lot from books, but the world is a classroom too.</p>
<p>I know lots of doctors who went to excellent med schools who had great balance during their undergrad college experience. Agree w EAdad. Those that live in the library do not bring as much to the table. You need to understand people in order to be a good doctor. (unless you are an anesthesiologist whose patients are asleep!)</p>
<p>“If you are going to use the logic that your number 1 goal as a college student should be to get into medical school then you might also spend your entire 4 years of college just studying and not hanging out with friends.”</p>
<p>-the truth is that Medical Schools do NOT want people who “spend entire 4 years of college just studying and not hanging out with friends.” </p>
<p>"Therefore if the school that I am going to has the academic capabilities to do that then I consider it a good school. "</p>
<p>-There is no UG that is not capabale of preparing person for Med. School. Any UG will do. It is up to a person to be prepared.</p>
<p>If you actually read my entire post, you would have see that, that was the point that I was trying to make…but I guess that further repeating my point might help johny1 realize that is what I was trying to say…</p>
<p>If your number 1 goal as a college student is to get into a medical school YOU SHOULD NOT spend your entire 4 years of college just studying and hanging out with friends. </p>
<p>I never said you should study all day and have no friends. I said you should do whatever that will get you into a medical school which will include having friends studying hard doing ecs etc…</p>
<p>And please remember I am talking about getting into top medical schools. Students that get into top medical schools will have to study harder and sacrifice more of a social experience than those kids who do not( generally). </p>
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<p>Good observation. Once again irrelevant to my point. </p>
<p>There are variances on how certain schools can prepare you.</p>
<p>Very interesting discussion, thanks for all the replies! I am leaning toward Wash U, but can anyone comment on the impossibility of doing well and attaining a high GPA there? Like at what point is a lower GPA at a prestigious university not worth it? (like below a 3.5?)</p>