<p><em>rolls his eyes at people taking shots at URM in this thread</em></p>
<p>You guys do fail to notice or ignore the fact URMs have been targets and have had numerous legislating targeting them to make their social status more difficult (War on drugs, Welfare, Crappy inner schools, etc.) Obviously kids in inner city schools will have low SAT scores compared to students in middle class/upper middle class areas. Although there is an exception to every rule that’s the general idea. The disparity between inner city schools and suburban schools is just disgusting. And I know because I’ve been in both situations. Now don’t get me wrong, there are things URMs can do to improve their situations such as their attitudes in viewing schools and what not, but most of them come from an environment that is hostile. I can guarantee the majority of kids on CC would not be scholars had they grown up in these environments also.<br>
Now lets go back to the 60s when blacks were being beaten for trying to get an education, and before you say it, “why bring up the past”, I’m doing this because it’s a vital component in understanding where we are in present day. Blacks were separated from whites in schools obviously, but Asians were able to go to school with whites because they had high-test scores (must make you guys feel good the master is accepting you, huh?). I personally love the worth ethic most Asian Americans posses, I just think it’s unfortunate they want to be accepted by white people/ be white so badly, more specifically Asian woman. </p>
<p>oh yeah, the racial undertones are kinda sad. just come out with your disdain for URMs, i’d respect you much more.</p>
<p>Hes right. The disparity between schools in the inner city and the schools where most of you on this thread came from is disgusting. Colleges do not function as organizations for Social Darwinism, or survival of the fittest, and neither does this country. If we did, you could kiss Medicare, welfare, and other state sponsored programs like COLLEGES GOODBYE. These programs exists to bring the disadvantaged members of society upward into prosperity - that is the basic principal behind democracy, and this country - “help your fellow man.”</p>
<p>For all those hating on AA, yes it may disadvantage YOU, depending on your race, but for our society as a WHOLE, it benefits us. Its like donating to charity - you loose money and it doesn’t benefit you, for it benefits society by proving help for the disadvantaged.</p>
<p>Besides, black people (the primary benefactor of AA) have had it rougher that any ethnic group in this country. Hell, 60 years ago, you could probably count the number of black people in college on your fingers. Sure there were plenty smart enough, but many couldn’t pass through the barrier of discrimination and racism that permeated popular culture. Granted, there are many things black people can improve on (like fcking actually studying and striving for education - I hate being the only black guy in my AP classes), but AA, in essence, just evens the playing field a little.</p>
<p>Until you have been denied a job because the manager was racist
Until you have been purposely marked down because the teacher was racist
Until you have been denied awards you rightfully earned because the principal was racist
Until you have been graded harder, you grades skewed, and your stuff ransacked because your ethnicity
Until you cannot go to school because of gangs and violence</p>
<p>DuckieStyle: The way college admissions are run now, no distinction is made between the disadvantaged minorities of the inner cities and the privileged ones from the elite prep schools. “Evening the playing field,” in the racially based manner you suggest, is tantamount to the purest form of reverse discrimination. Even socioeconomic AA would punish those applicants whose families worked hard in life to give them the best education possible. Standards should not be subjectively lowred or raised for ethnic groups for reasons as trivial as skin color and THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST?!?!?!?!</p>
<p>One of my Indian friends jokingly told me that Affirmative Action won’t get you into heaven. I then jokingly replied “well i feel sorry for all you Whites and Asians because you’re going to have a hard time getting in.” But anyways the point is you never know when you’re going to need the support of different types of people so don’t disregard them as inferior. Sorry if that sounded racist but i’m comfortable with different races and that has helped me grow and also allows me to tell racist jokes.</p>
<p>K’naan spoke the truth. I’m not sure about the last part about the Asian, but URMs are usually given a shoddy foundation from birth. Bad neighborhood, bad influences, low expectations, little role models that have achieved success, poor schools, lack of finances, receiving subconscious signals from teachers that Whites and Asians are better than them.
Yes, that last part is true. It has happened ever since I was in elementary school. Actually, it was more apparent in elementary school. Teachers beaming when a White child asks a question and coming off slightly annoyed when a Black child asks one. Calling on the Asian child for the third time while ignoring the Latina child that has had her hand up for all three questions. The URM wasn’t always misbehaving or asking silly questions either. Heck, I’ve had this happen to me a number of times and I’ve always behaved in class and made good grades.</p>
<p>Yes, URMs can and should push through it all, but you wouldn’t understand how hard it is to live in that area until you did, and seeing most of the posts on CC, you guys don’t. A lot of you guys come off as upper-middle to upper class having strong opinions about this topic when you guys don’t fully understand (or secretly don’t care for some of you) about the struggles URMs have to face. And this talk about Social Darwinism is disturbing. Maybe we had different upbringings but growing up, I was taught that everyone should have a chance to succeed, not only those who seemed to be the most fit. What kind of sick philosophy is that?</p>
<p>With that note, I believe that AA should be based on your economic status rather than racial status. That way, poor Whites and Asians would be helped while still assisting to poor Blacks and Latinos. AA kinda comes off as reverse discrimination but with good intentions, if that makes any sense. And those that are worried that the poor will overpower you, don’t worry, money always seems to make a person invincible. LOL</p>
<p>@the Reach, what you said is just disgusting…</p>
<p>would you consider helping a disadvantaged population (“those that aren’t fit to survive or those that shouldnt be advancing”) through charity or various other works as stabbing Darwin in the back???</p>
<p>Terribly offensive and disgustingly simplified analogy.</p>
<p>Social darwinism takes a theory that was written about species and applies it to races. How anyone could claim social darwinism is not racist is shocking.</p>
<p>I’m not in support of social darwinism or anything, but I thought that it was just an idea basically saying it’s survival of the fitness with everybody. No hand-holding should be involved in the government, things like that. It basically makes the poor weaker, and the ric h stronger.</p>
<p>Either way, in that case we wouldn’t really need parents since we’d be expected to do things on our own, and if we die, oh well…</p>
<p>If we adopted the idea of social Darwinism, America would crumble within itself. Charities wouldn’t exist and governmental aid would be a pipedream. Schools and universities wouldn’t exist, those that are mentally fit should be able to supply their own education. The great minds that are poor would never see the light of success. Future doctors, scientists, politicians, economists, farmers, soldiers would never be because of social Darwinism. What would happen when natural disasters strike? Diseases? What would the rich do if their numbers start to dwindle because of disease, war, and nature? Beg the starving and equally sick to get up and do something? Yeah, social Darwinism FTL and I just scratched the surface.</p>
Why do Black people often say someone’s “acting white” for being smart and working hard? Hey, if anything, y’all should call it “acting Asian”. The rest of your post was pretty much an argument for socioeconomic AA, not racial.
Oh snap…Logic pulled out the if-you-disagree-with-me-you-love-Hitler card. </p>
<p>Anyway I do support AA, and that’s since I realize it’s not done to help URMs so much as make the college look better and more diverse. Colleges are a business like any other and they favor URMs, legacies, athletes, and celebrities to make themselves look better. If you think any of it’s done to help the poor latino kid, that’s naive.</p>
<p>You realize White/Asians benefit from gender based AA, right? Women in Engineering, men in Nursing/Education. So if you’re an angry White guy upset about AA, just become a nurse, it all evens out. :]</p>
<p>It’s not exactly a card. It’s more like a desperate attempt to make a comeback when he knows that he had no intelligent response to my statement, aka logical fallacy aka Reductio ad Hitlerum. Just because Hitler supported social darwinism, its suddenly bad? Many Americans supported social darwinism, from the beginning of the nation to its peak, during the Gilded Age. Why didn’t you mention that? And it doesn’t work; Godwin’s Law - “if you mention Hitler or Nazis in a post, you’ve automatically ended whatever discussion you were taking part in”. Sucks for your forum name, because you can’t change it and you’ve been making logical fallacies all throughout this thread.</p>
<p>It’s interesting that happycowlover mentioned low expectations as a hurdle for URMs, because isn’t AA nothing but a reinforcement of those low standards?</p>
<p>Oh, and if our society were still “survival of the fittest” 90% of the people on this forum would get owned by virtue of being coddled nerds, so that’s not exactly a great argument.</p>
<p>"i actually dont agree with a socio economic system that favors poorer kids in admissions. Poorer kids often get much more aid to make college actually affordable. "</p>
<p>Poorer kids often aren’t able to get much if any aid because most colleges aren’t able to give full financial aid to everyone who needs it. The college that are able to do that are the ones like Harvard that are the toughest colleges in the country to enter.</p>
<p>In addition, poor kids tend to have these disadvantages:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Parents who are likely to lack even high school diplomas, so can’t help students with homework or other academic things including applying to college.</p></li>
<li><p>Parents who aren’t married to each other. In general, the top students come from two-parent households.</p></li>
<li><p>Very weak school systems due to the fact that the quality of schools in the U.S. is connected with property taxes. This includes going to a school that lacks good college counseling, AP/IB classes, and experienced teachers who are certified in the subjects that they teach.</p></li>
<li><p>Poor health due to lack of insurance, etc. They may lack basics like eyeglasses, medication for problems like asthma.</p></li>
<li><p>Very young parents or are being raised by grandparents</p></li>
<li><p>Lack of ability to participate in ECs due to having to take care of younger sibs or not having transportation to get to and from school for activities before and after school.</p></li>
<li><p>Lack of enrichment opportunities</p></li>
<li><p>Lack of general encouragement from family and others in their environment when it comes to applying to or even considering college.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So…just how lucky do you think poor people are?</p>
<p>Anyway, racial AA is stupid. Not every black, Hispanic, and Native American person needs help. My parents both went to college, they’re both professionals (well, one is retired), they have an income and a net worth well above average. Though a small percentage of URMs are well-off, it still adds up to a large number, and we don’t need to be over valued in admissions.
I know AA is about making the college’s races look more even, but considering who is poor in America, socioeconomic AA will have the same effect on appearances for the most part.
I don’t deny that URMs face other challenges than income. I’ve had the racist 1st grade teacher, the English teacher, who, when she found out I was smart wanted to know if I was mixed, etc.There’s stereotype threat. More URMs, even accounting for income, live in single parent homes. And so on. But I think these are separate challenges and racial AA is hurting people, especially people of certain Asian national origins and ethnicities. That’s not okay.</p>
<p>ChoklitRain, it depends on the person. AA may make a person feel less about themselves and give another the drive to achieve more.</p>
<p>Millanclad, you are the minority in the Black community. While I know that there’re Blacks and Latinos that are upper-class, the majority aren’t. I believe we should focus on the majority more than the minority.</p>
<p>Can someone provide numbers as to how many Whites and Asians lose out college acceptances to URMs? People keep saying a lot lose out but never provide any numbers.</p>
<p>K’naan is an underachieving moron, so he mocks Asians for trying to hard. Give me a break. He probably believes Asians’ interest in math and sciences is a concession to the white power structure, and secretly despises them. Meanwhile, K’naan has to type his racist messages from a public library because he lives under a interstate highway bridge. We know the evil in your heart K’naan, and we know you hate the educational system because it allows hard-working individuals to become successful and give back to society, while your IQ is too small for you to do anything important. We need a meritocracy, not AA.</p>
The rest of your post was pretty much an argument for socioeconomic AA, not racial.