<p>What are you guys next door neighbors? A 4 minute spread between posts? </p>
<p>Always; you need to look up the difference between insults and a difference of views. You made a better case of being out of touch with the rest of the world than I did. You took my statement to mean out of touch with the theater world (which I never said), in fact my point was the inverse but you missed that. </p>
<p>In your opinion was my hypothetical statement about "poor Johnny" the exception or the rule? Please dont equivocate. </p>
<p>Coach; You make my point exactly;
[quote]
it was my job to advise all aspiring BFA auditionees.
[/quote]
We live in a state with say 15 -20 million residents, I dont think there is one resident with your abilities and certainly not a person who's job it is to advise aspiring BFA' ers.</p>
<p>Again with the insults, Wally. You seem to have difficulty conversing without resorting to that, which is unfortunate. We are discussing theatre in this forum, not the rest of the world, and I honestly don't know how you would have the slightest idea about my personal situation in relation to the rest of the world. In exactly what way am I, or is CoachC, out of touch with the rest of the world in the context of our discussion with you and your generalizations about students who study theatre?</p>
<p>Your "poor Johnny scenario" isn't accurate. You're indicating that the reason that poor Johnny didn't get the part is that he did not devote himself 100% to the study of theatre, even if your example of the MBA is not a plausible one but I'll leave that alone. My point is that all students who are interested in, and who study, things in addition to theatre are not doing so to "hedge their bets". In addition to that, they are not "one in a million", and that is no equivocation. How many examples are required before it's obvious that those kids aren't "one in a million"?</p>
<p>Wally, I think you are being a little coy! :) Coach C certainly didn't mean (I am sure) to imply that her job was to advise ALL aspiring BFA-ers in her state or the country or the world; rather, it was her job to give college counseling and advice to the kids in her public school who wished to pursue BFA degrees in theater/musical theater in college. That sounds much more reasonable, don't you think?</p>
<p>
[quote]
fishbowl, I'm not sure who you're referring to as the "big name NY kids"? If you can enlighten me with that, I'll try to reply to the rest of your comment. :)
[/quote]
Youre in the city, so youd know better than me which is why I asked. :) From not being there and pretty much only knowing of the screen actors that have supposedly worked onstage at one point or another, off the top of my head I think Natalie Portman, Eddie Kaye Thomas, Mischa Barton, Anne Hathaway, Scarlett Johannsen, Jason Biggs, and Emily Rossum would qualify. I assume theres a younger crop like them coming along that I havent heard of yet. Is the girl you know at Columbia Miss Rossum per chance? Shes so preeeetty. ;) If not, what kind of resume did she have prior to college?</p>
<p>Also, glancing back at my notes from the Great Tony Google Stalk at the nominees with no college and those who studied something besides theatre in college without later getting an MFA, it looks like all the ones under forty except for Kate Levering grew up in or around NYC or had extensive professional credits before they hit Broadway. Hey I guess that is one example of somebody who just showed up though she got her start in TV after a two year gap between high school and her first appearance. I assume she studied somewhere in the interim?</p>
<p>Yall play nice or youre gonna have one snarky Hooters girl on your hands when I get back. Happy married golfer day bleh :rolleyes:</p>
<p>No, Miss Rossum is not the girl to whom I was referring. That particular friend is not from the city originally. She actually is from Wally's neck of the woods in the Pacific Northwest. Her experience prior to college was as a dancer, something she continued in college before realizing that wasn't what she wanted to do with her life. It was at that point that she became more involved in theatre and started auditioning. The one I mentioned who performs his own music did not go to college. He was cast in the tour version of the show when he was 19, after having moved to NYC when he finished h/s. The one who is involved with the theatre company was a dancer who studied it at the college level, moved to NYC, studied at AADA for two years, then started auditioning.</p>
<p>In fact, not a single one of the kids I referenced grew up anywhere close to NYC. :) Not one. None of these kids are Tony winners but then, neither are most Broadway actors. I think this issue is part of why discussing these actors is so interesting. There are so many varied backgrounds and paths to a career on the stage, and it's a profession where there's not even a semi-guarantee of success if you follow all the rules, get the suggested training, and do the right things. I will say that there is one common denominator among the vast majority of the working theatre actors whom I know, and that is that they are musicians. I can think of very few who are NOT accomplished musicians in at least one instrument, most play more than one.</p>
<p>I don't really think the screen actors that you mentioned above are really any kind of 'next generation' of stage actors. Most of the ones I can think of who might fit that bill are unknowns to most who are not avid NYC theatre fans. One new kid on the block was nominated for a Tony this year and she is a friend of a friend. Her name is Alison Pill and she is VERY young, and VERY talented. She is one of the very fortunate few who show up in the city at age 18, knowing few, heading out to auditions, getting cast almost immediately in a couple of plays, then auditioning and being cast in a play that is by a popular playwright, it becomes a hit, and she is reaping the rewards. This is not to say that she doesn't deserve it all, she does. She's been working in Canada since she was very young, and has a lot of talent. She's not the typical kid who is discussed on CC who decides they don't want to go to college but instead want to head to the city. It's just one more story to add to the table. It does happen, but so rarely that no one in their right mind would ever recommend it to an 18 year old.</p>
<p>Certainly my generalizations left room for exceptions. Yet, you guys are stating that there are no rules only exceptions, is that correct? In all of your contacts and experiences you can see no threads of commonality among successful actors? </p>
<p>I wont claim to have your guys knowledge on this subject or contacts yet having been a foundation member to one of the largest acting companies in the country for a couple of decades I am not entirely without basis. And, I have observed much commonality with some exceptions. </p>
<p>That just seems so obvious to me that on average the actor who devotes more time to the craft would be more likely to be successful. Who knows maybe it a regional thing?</p>
<p>Hi, Wally,
Just for the record, I (NotMamaRose) have not been involved in this discussion much, other than to state that I didn't think that Coach C meant in any way to imply that she singlehandedly has coached/advised/counselled <em>all</em> kids who aspire to get BFAs in musical theater. It is fishbowlfreshman and others who are debating with you about exceptions and rules.
I don't pretend to know much about the business of acting and/or musical theater. I am here to try to learn. My background is in the newspaper reporting/science writing field, and not show business! :)
However, I do know enough to know that talent and spending lots of time perfecting an actor's craft does not always equal success and stage time, unfortunately. I feel pretty darned sure that there are hundreds (make that, thousands) of really great stage actors who never make it to Broadway for various reasons, while some much less talented people do. Why? I am not sure. Some is luck, some being in the right place at the right time, etc.
L</p>
<p>Remember....all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. MANY MANY schools are very attracted to prospective students who have interests outside their field.</p>
<p>Thankfully America has this wonderful thing call a democracy....we weren't born into a socialist government where all our kids would be sent off to perfect their talents and only those talents.</p>
<p>My two guys are very much into their craft that is why <strong>they chose</strong> a conservatory program. BUT not everyone is drawn to that kind of program. Performers would all be life sized cookie cutouts if there was only one uniformly perceived way to get to the end of the rainbow.</p>
<p>;) SUE aka 5pants</p>
<p>P.S. Wallyworld, I believe your math head ways are routinely looking for statistical patterns. I say this with a wink as my youngest son is a math head and he thinks like you do sometimes.</p>
<p>I think theres some middle ground here. I remember looking at the bios of the actors at the festival Wally is associated with and almost all of them were MFAs or had BFAs from the upper tier of conservatories. This has been the case with most of the major regional Shakespearean companies Ive checked out and is mostly true even at the little out-of-the-way and off the radar company Ive worked with in the occasional age-appropriate role. Im sure Alwaysamom is right about the situation with MT and contemporary theatre on Broadway, too. Were just coming from different places, right? Barking up different trees, perhaps? I do know that one of the few things that would make me want to go to NYC after graduation would be to get lucky (and good) enough to get on with The</a> Acting Company. Click on the cast bios and check out where those cats went to school. </p>
<p>Are we debating or discussing? I thought we were discussing. Sorry if youve discussed me with your friends and decided Im disgusting. ;) Apologies if I've come off as contentious. I just enjoy sharing what I've learned and picking the brains of others about things I haven't. Trivia freak, if you will. Its a good way to learn and is supposed to be what these forums are for, right? :)</p>
<p>The only word to describe you working where you do is "ironic". </p>
<p>This looks like a fun way to spend part of a summer. Do the program, stay on for a week afterword to do stuff in "the city". What do you guys think?</p>
<p>While it sounds like a cool experience - it wouldn't be something for my child - note that it says you must be a HS graduate... in which case, if you're already in college, most parents are probably hoping the kid is doing summer stock, for experience, or a summer job, for cash - not more training that may or may not duplicate what they're receiving in school already...</p>
<p>Hey everyone. Wow, this is a tense board. Well here is my ranking. The top 4 are accurate as of the 2005-2006 school year. After that is just my opinion.</p>
<ol>
<li>The Boston Conservatory</li>
<li>Cinncinatti Conservatory of Music</li>
<li>Carnege Melon University</li>
<li><p>University of Michigan</p></li>
<li><p>NYU-Tisch-Cap 21</p></li>
<li><p>Syracuse University</p></li>
<li><p>Ithica College</p></li>
<li><p>University of Miami</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Am not positive of the exact location of the data. But those rankings are based on the percentage of the school's graduates who worked in the MT field during the previous year. The information was given to me by several professors and other people working in the MT field.</p>
<p>There are no such reliable ranking as you claim. Few schools release such information - because the truth is - IT IS VERY SCARY OUT THERE. The number of folks making a living in theatre vs. those who would like to is daunting. Read up on some other parts of this forum or the Times or Variety or the Equity News.</p>
<p>Even if programs where honest and forthcoming with that type of statistic - there is no one surveying the graduating classes of 50 schools and correlating the work-rate-ratio to arrive a credible group of "5 schools with the best rate of placing their graduates" statistic.</p>
<p>Someone listed like 8 schools as the best - well I agree with five of them - in no rank order - the other 3 are not in my top twenty MT schools - perhaps vocal or acting schools - but not top twenty MT schools. But - that is just my opinion - because I think that the real deal is the triple threat and close student mentoring - others (obviously) disagree - That's OK - the real point is there are no reliable, scientific, statistically varifiable rankings. It does not exist. It bothers me that persons have lead you to believe that they do.</p>
<p>No names - I know schools that would count working in the same summer stock you've worked in every summer since sophmore year as working professionally after graduation - but that person is unemployed in September - one small example of how to lie with statistics. Good luck searching for your "Holy Grail".</p>
<p>IJElkiss:<br>
Please understand that I am not trying to offend you, but as a BoCo sophomore, you prove the point that rankings for top MT schools are subjective when you ranked BoCo #1. </p>
<p>I do believe there is a top unranked (emphasis on unranked) tier which contains a group of schools that consistently produce working MT actors but I also recognize that the list is fluid: the MT director or dean of the drama school may leave or be replaced, curriculum may change, student enrollment may fluctuate etc. In addition, there will always be newer up-and-coming programs as well as older programs that lose some of their attraction for a myriad of reasons. My d searched long and hard for an objective national ranking of MT schools when she was making her list, but she never found one. It is simply too subjective a call.</p>
<p>I suppose this thread will never be retired because there will always be those who insist they know the correct order, but their list is almost always personally connected to them or those they know attending those schools. I just wish we could acknowledge that fact!</p>
<p>I am not offended at all. And I did not put Boco first because I go there. I did so because that is what people have said. I have heard this to be true of one school or another since long before I was in college. Just that one year it is supposed to be Boco. Of course schools will fluctuate. And of course there are always exceptions to the rule. I think you guys are taking it a little too seriously for a reason I do not know. Not to sound rude, but for all you know I could have access to info from private sources that you do not. It is a closed minded person who puts down the idea of a rank because they think it is unfair or because they haven't seen it published in the NY Times. Undoubtedly there is an upper tier of schools and the rank will always go back and forth between them. The list I posted was just that list for the 2004-2005 school year. Yall need to chill.</p>
<p>I don't think that anyone is "heated" and needs to chill. I think we are all just stating that it is a very subjective subject, and the fact of the matter is that there is no "official" ranking. The title of this thread is "Your Opinions: BFA MT College Rankings", not "The Official BFA MT College Rankings". And so, everyone here seems to be expressing an opinion. The truth of the matter is that what anyone has heard in regards to rankings is simply an opinion. One cannot claim to know the truth for anything that is not a widely accepted, published or legitimate. It is just like scientists making claims that there is no proof for.</p>
<p>IJElkiss- no one is saying you are wrong, people are simply saying their opinion, which is the whole purpose of this thread. </p>
<p>And those whole debate goes back to the simple answer that the best school is the best for you. I choose my school because it fit what I wanted, not because of a opinion based ranking from anyone. It fit me, and so its the best school for me. I think the same is true with many BFA kids (I'm hesitant to say all because all of us know how competitive this field, and college programs, are and there are always heartbreaks when a kid does not get into a school that seems right for them).</p>
<p>And once again, I am just expressing my opinion.</p>