19-year-old son floundering...how do I help??

Parent Cafe
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<p>I'm the parent of a 19-year-old son who seems to be floundering in his sophomore year at a state school. He is our oldest child -- daughter in high school. He was a mediocre high school student, took some AP classes and graduated with a 3.7 weighted, but was never really motivated. However, during high school had treatment for an arm injury and became VERY interested in physical therapy. Since he's really not a great student (barely graduated in top third of high school class) I helped him research some career choices and we learned about physical therapy assistant.</p>

<p>He decided this is what he wanted to do after a lot of discussion and a LOT of job shadowing in three different PT settings. The plan had been for him to go to college, and he was in agreement with this, but at this point the plan changed for him to go to a community college and do pre-reqs for a physical therapy assistant program at another CC. The admissions process is still VERY competitive even though it's an AA degree, and we had zillions of discussions about this. </p>

<p>He was well aware of this, but sadly, fairly immature. So bottom line is he lived at home a year and took the prereq courses and did not make the grades to get into the PTA program. Was very upset and wouldn't even open the reject letter when it came, I had to open it for him!! (I asked him if I could open it after it sat on the floor of his bedroom for four days, and he said, sure......) Seems to me like he avoids facing tough things???? Again, an example of immaturity, I believe.</p>

<p>His grades were mostly Bs and Cs at the CC, and the competitive admission process requires kids to get almost all As...also, most of the students in this program are older, average age is 30....he was just turning 19. We discussed ALL of this but he said it was what he wanted to do. Some of the other programs have waiting lists, just complete prereqs with a C average and get on waiting list, but the one he was trying to get into was competitive with GPA a big factor.</p>

<p>We learned he had smoked some pot during his senior year and talked to him about that, and thought he had stopped, but in the summer AFTER the community college year, he worked part time and smoked a lot of pot. We told him he couldn't do this in our home and he kept doing it behind our backs. I would find it occasionally and we'd have to talk about it.</p>

<p>After some very long and very tearful discussions (many tears on both sides...him, me and his dad, my husband) we decided that he should go off to a state school and try to get a BA. For DH and I, the main goal of this was really just to get him to GROW UP......also he's very shy, so meet new people, get a broader life perspective. We felt he wasn't meeting people at the community college and maybe if he saw other students with goals at a college, he would grow up?</p>

<p>DH and I have discussed kicking him out of the house and telling him to get a job and live on his own because he has disobeyed the rules for living in our home, but we really don't want to HAVE to do that...I think we think he's still 19, he's young and hopefully he will grow up and find himself?????????</p>

<p>We told him we would pay for tuition, room and board for a state school but he needed to get AT LEAST a 2.5 GPA or we would ask him to apply for student loans for consecutive semester.</p>

<p>Well, he's halfway through the first semester and seems to be doing OK in 3 classes - As and Bs, with a borderline D in one class (college algebra...he is not strong in math.) and a C in English. It's an easy English class, but from what I"ve seen he doesn't really seem to be following directions well, thus the C.</p>

<p>He is interested in getting a degree in exercise science, since he is STILL interested in pursuing the physical therapy path, which would require him to get more education, go back and get an AA.</p>

<p>Dont' think he's smoking pot at school because his funds are limited to what he saved over the summer, which was not much, and he hasn't been able to find ajob at school.</p>

<p>I am so frustrated with this situation. The only thing my son wants to do is the physical therapy route, PTA, but the program is very demanding (which we've talked about...over and over and over) and he doesn't seem to be showing the basic skills you need to succeed in that program.</p>

<p>Do we just let him continue on, tell him to borrow money for next semester if he doesn't make the GPA we set for him and hope he eventually grows up??? This is SOO hard to watch!!</p>

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<p>“You can teach a three year old to tie his shoes, but it will take months of practice and a lot of tears and frustration. And he’ll forget the skill unless it is practiced and reviewed daily. Or you can wait until he is five or six or seven, and it’ll take a few hours on a weekend. And he’ll never forget the skill.” - one of my favorite quotes from an out of print book called “When Your Kid Drives You Crazy”.</p>

<p>The point being, kids mature at different rates, and sometimes it is really difficult to wait until they are “ready”, when everyone else has already arrived. </p>

<p>He’s got a goal, but he isn’t mature enough to get himself there yet. You can waste a lot of money on college, or you can wait until he is ready to work towards his goal. </p>

<p>My neighbor’s son failed spectacularly out of college his first semester. He moved home, got a job, paid his parents back for the loans they had taken out. Once he had paid them back he started taking classes at the local CC. By then was ready to get serious, and several years later all of his credits then transfered to our state flagship, where he continued to do well. He graduated last spring. He was five years “behind” his high school class, but who cares?</p>

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<p>You might enjoy a book entitled “The Film Cub” about a young man about the same age, who was floundering.</p>

<p>I was just wondering if your son has been evaluated for any learning or attention issues. Sometimes these things become more apparent as the demands of academic work increase. Just a thought.</p>

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<p>Thanks. compmom. He has not been evaluated for learning or attention issues, although I have increasingly wondered about that as he has gotten older. This past summer I suggested to him that that might be an issue (ADD type problem) and he balked and said he did not have ADD or ADHD because the kids he know who had that in middle and high school were bouncing off the walls. </p>

<p>He has never had those typical ADHD symptoms, but he’s always been a terrible test taker because he seems to me to be very impulsive and often made very stupid mistakes. Seems to have trouble getting things done on deadline and paying attention to things that don’t interest him.</p>

<p>However, when is that an actual medical issue, and when it is just laziness and a lack of discipline?</p>

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<p>I also wondered about a possible learning/attention issue. It is discouraging to try and not succeed, and eventually not want to make an effort if it doesn’t lead to good results. </p>

<p>How do you know the difference between a learning/attention problem and laziness? They can look the same. The only way to know is to get a full evaluation. The office for students with disabilities can refer him to someone who can do that. </p>

<p>One can have attention/learning differences and not be hyperactive. Of course it is up to your son to agree to be evaluated. Most colleges also have a career counseling center where he can get advice on what fields will suit him. It is possible that he finds a program at the CC or state college that suits him besides physical therapy. </p>

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<p>Only an experienced neuropsych testing round will tell you the difference. It does seem like you have engaged in overly magical thinking here – you took a student who was good (I think his hs description is fine) but unfocused and not self-motivated, doing illegal drugs, and thought that going to CC would change his basic personality. Then, you thought that sending him to a harder school would change it. Not to blame – I have absolutely been in your shoes — but let’s not substitute what we want to be, for what actually is. Don’t be afraid to look It in the eye. </p>

<p>Setting a gpa goal works for some students. For many, it doesn’t. (Do you know what his gpa is? Or is he self-reporting? Note to mom: he doesn’t have to tell you the truth) It’s your arbitrary goal, not theirs. I would just say as long as he can stay in good standing at school, you will help pay for it. You need to see this, I think, as a problem that you are helping him solve, not a deficiency you need to discipline him over. In one case, you are on his side. In the latter, you are just another voice yelling that he is getting everything wrong again. </p>

<p>So step further away from your emotions, and just problem solve. Flunking out or withdrawing may not be the end of the world. Life will go on. He will wander and prevaricate until…he decides to stop. He decides. He may have to move out if he refuses to abide by legal restrictions. (I agree that throwing a child out is easy on paper, really hard in real life) Those are issues to solve as you go. But the panic you feel is just a feeling, not a fact. PM me if you want more unsolicited advice from the other end of this tunnel :)</p>

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<p>I would definitely have him tested for a learning disability or ADHD. Many kids are not the stereotypical hyper ones. Or he may have executive function issues. </p>

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<p>I know what his GPA is. I have his passwords and access to his academic records. I see what he is doing. HIs community college GPA was about a 2.8.</p>

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<p>“He has never had those typical ADHD symptoms, but he’s always been a terrible test taker because he seems to me to be very impulsive and often made very stupid mistakes. Seems to have trouble getting things done on deadline and paying attention to things that don’t interest him.”</p>

<p>These ARE ADHD symptoms. There are different subtypes of ADHD. You are thnking of the hyperactive type. Your son may be the inattentive type. Since the latter do not cause disruption in class, they are often overlooked.</p>

<p>You can find a questionnaire for ADHD (inattentive) online, or your son’s primary care doctor can provide one. There is no reliable test for ADHD: a questionnaire is given to the parent and the student. A full neuropsych evalution would be a good idea if you can afford it, or even a limited one. The neurpsych. will test for attention issues but it is often not valid because the testing situation is one on one in a quiet room without distractions.</p>

<p>Another great book is “The Myth of Laziness.” The idea is that there really is no such thing and there are other reasons behind lazy behavior, including ADHD.</p>

<p>I think the priority now is to stop any harm to his academic record. It can be hard to move forward with transcripts that do not show your real ability. I would get him to withdraw from any classes he is failing or not doing well in, if at all possible (I suppose it is too late, but he could look into having W’s on record instead of F’s for this semester for some classes). Then he could take just one or two classes and get a sense of more mastery, doing well in those few.</p>

<p>Lots of us have been there. It can work out but it also can be a long road. I would say, convey that youbelieve in him and will help and stand by him, because the relationship between you can be a big asset, but then again I don’t know him or your situation well and realize the can be hard.</p>

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<p>OK, I think the testing is a good idea. I will talk to him about it when he’s home for Thanksgiving and see if he will agree to it. We have a pediatrician office that has treated him since he was a baby…would we start the process there or somewhere else? He’s getting a bit old for the pediatrician, but that’s still his main medical provider.</p>

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<p>Start with OSD at the University. Warning- some students may feel that they really just need to work harder, and they blame themselves. It may be difficult to get him to agree to be tested or if he is tested to believe the results of the testing. It is not just you that may believe it is just laziness or miasma. It is likely he is beating himself up over it as well and feeling very frustrated, and may see you as trying to find some kind of fig-leaf excuse to comfort your own psyche. Your relationship is very important at this point.</p>

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<p>Ok, we will contact the OSD and talk to our son about it. He knows DH and I want to help, and for the most part I think we have a pretty good relationship. We really have nothing to lose.</p>

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<p>I also think it is a good idea to start with the office for students with disabilities on campus for a referral. Although your son is getting old for the pediatrician, surely the pediatrician has had many patients with ADD. He/she might be a resource for you for local support groups, or other information. If your son ends up getting evaluated, you could inform the pediatrician. </p>

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<p>You don’t necessarily need testing for ADHD/ADD. Try questionnaires online: just google. Here are some examples:
<a href=“Do I Have ADHD? Take Our ADHD Quiz to See If You Might | Psych Central”>http://psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.attentiondeficit-info.com/adhd/questionnaire-adhd.php”>http://www.attentiondeficit-info.com/adhd/questionnaire-adhd.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>A family doctor can diagnose but a single appointment with a psychiatrist will do it. We found a study at a local hospital and had free screening. We did follow up with a full evaluation but not for ADHD, just to screen out or in other factors. The neurpsych testing is expensive so if finances are an issue, it is pretty simple to screen for ADHD with a questionnaire and appropriate provider. Every neuropsych. we used (3) used the same questionnaire.</p>

<p>Read up on ADHD inattentive, that may help too :)</p>

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<p>Based on my reading of these questionnaires, he has some ADHD symptoms, but might not have an actual diagnosis, which is what I thought when I brought it up this summer. He functions fairly well in most settings, but there are some issues.</p>

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<p>I’d also ask him if he notices having trouble concentrating on things or getting distracted easily. My one son with ADD described it that he would be doing his homework and there was a rubber band trying to pull his attention on to something else. DH also has it and it can be really hard to concentrate in meetings. I know everyone has trouble paying attention at times but if it happens a lot to your son it may be ADD. The good news is if there are ways to make it better.</p>

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<p>OP, he sounds like he’s doing OK now. You said he needed a 2.5 GPA for the first semester at the state school – is he not on track for that? You said he currently has an A or B in three courses, C in English, “borderline D” in math (which could be nearly a C, or nearly an F – I’m not sure which you mean). He seems to be taking a full 15 credit load. It is his first semester living away. He could have stacked the deck better for himself by not enrolling in math, which you say is his hard subject, but he took it anyway. He could also drop it, if there’s still time, which will improve the GPA, but stall progress toward the degree, as you’ll be paying for 15 credits and getting 12. College algebra is not remedial, it’s a full credit-conferring math course, and it is harder than what is required for some majors. It’s the class before precalculus. The final exams count for a lot in college, so I don’t think you’ll really know the grades until mid-December. But he sounds like he may be doing what you asked, which I think is pretty good, considering the academic history he came into it with, and the fact that it’s his first semester away.</p>

<p>I also question the realism of telling him that he must self-fund with loans in the spring semester, if he does not make the standard. The kids are only eligible to personally borrow about $5000 per year, as I understand it, and maybe you have an exceedingly good value at your state school, but I’ve never heard of anywhere that you can enroll full time and live in the dorm for $5000 per semester. It is you, not he, who would be eligible to borrow more – which seems self-defeating.</p>

<p>If you told him a 2.5 was enough for this semester (and I think that sounds reasonable, under the circumstances) and he meets that standard, I think it’s a success, for now, and he should continue to enjoy your support. Even if you decide to ratchet up the GPA requirement a bit in subsequent semesters.</p>

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<p>The college algebra grade is a D that is a borderline C, I believe. He has been trying to bring that grade up and struggling with it. Yes, the final will be critical.</p>

<p>I’m also a bit worried about how he’s doing in English, based on what he tells me, but we’ll see.</p>

<p>It’s too late to drop the classes now…but if he gets a D or and F, he can retake them and replace the grade under the academic forgiveness policy.</p>

<p>We were not planning to withdraw all financial support if he doesn’t get a 2.5 GPA, but might ask him to get a loan to cover a portion of the tuition. My thought was it would give him some “skin in the game,” so to speak. </p>

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<p>My daughter wasn’t tested for learning disability until the summer after her first year of college. Even then it was a suggestion by a TA. Turns out she is ADHD with special difficulty in language (she was an English major so I’ll never understand that) but she ended up not having to take any more foreign language or math. You guessed it, the classes she was struggling with the most. The testing was done at school over the summer. </p>

<p>But I really wanted to comment on the “skin in the game” via loan. The skin won’t come into play until he has graduated and has to start paying that loan. That could be years from now. He won’t learn anything from it now. Why do it if you don’t have to? </p>

<p>Maturity comes with time. At first when you said state school I thought he was still living at home - sounds like he is not, which would have been my first suggestion. My next suggestion is to let him be on his own over the summer as well. My daughter grew the most from that and proved to herself that she was ready to live on her own when she graduated. Which she is doing now.</p>

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<p>Right, he is not living at home, he is at a state school about 3 hours away from us. I do think the not living at home part has been beneficial in many ways, since he’s really shy and it’s helped him come out of his shell socially and make friends, something that wasn’t happening at the CC. The down side is that he has to learn how to get his work done and manage his time, but he’d have to figure out how to do that eventually anyway.</p>