Advice, please: Withdrawing, flunking, etc.

Parents Forum
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<p>Hey all -- I need some sage advice from the more experienced. S came home for Thanksgiving and says he's failing all classes with no hope to recover.</p>

<p>Bit of Background: He just turned 18 over Thanksgiving. His entire school career was clouded by the "is he just immature or does he have ADHD?" question. The long and short is, his teachers never deemed him problematic enough to recommend he be tested, and we didn't exactly step up to the plate and do it, largely because a) he somehow managed to pass most of his classes, b) was polite and dedicated to things he liked doing, c) is extremely intelligent (yet obviously not motivated -- I see loads of posts on this board about the type, you know, the 2300 SAT, 4s and 5s on APs but the 3.0/3.2 UW/W GPA and c) is in theater, where his energy helped drive a certain amount of success, including attending a prestigious performing arts program, professional parts and leads in high school and community theater.</p>

<p>We debated having him take a gap year, but he got into a good theater college program and we thought with the small class size, attention and a summer's worth of maturity, he'd be okay.</p>

<p>He is okay -- he doesn't do drugs and only attends parties on the weekends (we tend to believe him on this), and he says he's learning loads and he loves attending classes, but just like in high school, it's the actual daily work he just doesn't do. The reading, the writing papers (which is weird, because he spends much of his free time writing for enjoyment), anyway, the daily grind which i guess lots of people hate but he just doesn't get done.</p>

<p>So. I guess we're trying to figure out what to do. Yes, we wish we had gone with our gut and had him take a gap year. But maybe he would have found himself in the same boat next year.</p>

<p>We are planning to have him finally get tested for ADHD and maybe bipolar/he has mood swings and we just want to rule these out after all these years of wondering.</p>

<p>He's obviously not going back to college next semester. He'll be working at home where he'll have to pay a portion of his paycheck to us for rent/utilities/etc. </p>

<p>But here's where I need y'all's insight:</p>

<p>He's pretty sure he does not want to return to the same college where he'd be a year behind his peers in the special program he's in. He'd like a fresh start but we're worried he won't be ready for college in 9 months.</p>

<p>Given that he has two weeks left of the semester, what should he do? Withdraw? take his classes/exams and have a crappy GPA? What does he do in terms of reapplying for college? Do they ask for college transcripts if someone withdraws? Is there such a thing as a medical withdrawal if he actually is diagnosed with something? Is this worth pursuing? When is it time for a parent to take a step back and not help their child? Do we encourage to reapply to colleges given this short time frame for next year in case he's ready to go back in 9 months or do we take a step back and let a year go by and apply next year? Applying to colleges would be a big pain in the butt given this late date and would include auditioning. Any advice there? </p>

<p>Anyway. Any advice you can give would be appreciated.</p>

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<p>No suggestion, just a question - doesn’t theatre/ drama require a certain level of discipline, to learn parts and things like that? He must have been able to pull that off in high school. Does he have any perfomrnace clases in college now, and how is her doing in them? Just curious, sorry I have no advice, hopefully others will be more helpful.</p>

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<p>I would not suggest you step back at this time. Sounds like you are on right track with much of what you are doing. I think some of your questions could be best answered by your son’s college advisor or admissions department, i.e. “Given that he has two weeks left of the semester, what should he do? Withdraw? take his classes/exams and have a crappy GPA?” and “Is there such a thing as a medical withdrawal if he actually is diagnosed with something? Is this worth pursuing?”. Although I am sure you will get some good advice here as well. One thing you may want to emphasize to your son is that many students take time off for various reasons and it’s not a big deal.</p>

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<p>He may not have very many options at this point in the semester, but only his college can tell you for sure. Find out your options tomorrow morning by calling his school. BUT be forewarned that his school will not be able to discuss his grades with you unless he has signed the privacy waiver. They will be able to tell you policies. Good luck.</p>

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<p>I know next to nothing about ADHD. So I will be interested to hear if one can be considered to have ADHD when one is perfectly capable of focusing for long periods of time on things which are elective rather than required. Note: I’m not being sarcastic.</p>

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<p>Nrdsb4, The ability to “hyperfocus” when engaged in an interesting activity is a characteristic of ADHD. </p>

<p>HCaulfieldsMum, best of luck sorting this out with your son. He sounds like a great kid. Perhaps a semester at a CC, perhaps with ADHD medication and coach, if he is diagnosed, would make sense? He could accumulate a few credits and gain confidence in his ability to cope with coursework before diving back in to another 4-year college program.</p>

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<p>"I know next to nothing about ADHD. So I will be interested to hear if one can be considered to have ADHD when one is perfectly capable of focusing for long periods of time on things which are elective rather than required. "</p>

<p>Absolutely. Individuals with ADHD can focus and persist for long periods of time on things they find inherently interesting/satisfying but can find it almost impossible to do things they are not really interested in doing.</p>

<p>I do not know what’s best for your son in terms of school right now. For the future, having a coach could be quite helpful. He doesn’t need a diagnosis of ADHD to get help from an ADHD coach but testing would be useful for better understanding what’s going on, and getting accommodations if need be. For more information on coaching see [ADHD</a> Coaching FAQs | Edge Foundation | ADHD Coaching](<a href=“http://www.edgefoundation.org/information/coaching-faqs/]ADHD”>http://www.edgefoundation.org/information/coaching-faqs/) I have no affiliation with edge, but found their FAQ about coaching useful. My son has ADHD, and he has a coach who he has found to be helpful. It will be important for your son to develop a vision of what he wants in life and then create goals that help him achieve his vision. A coach can help students do this and also create daily/weekly action steps, develop successful strategies, find and stay in touch with motivation, anticipate obstacles, and celebrate successes.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

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<p>I don’t think it matters much at this point whether he withdraws from classes or takes the failing grades. If you withdraw this late in the semester, the W shows on your transcript. In many colleges, it is too late to withdraw anyway. At this point in the semester, students who expect to pass a course but can’t complete the work or take the final exam (for example, because of illness) usually ask for grades of Incomplete and finish the work the next semester. But this is not going to be helpful for a student who is already in a position where he cannot pass the course.</p>

<p>Your son’s next step, whenever he decides to resume his education, will probably be an open-admissions community college. So I don’t think his current transcript matters all that much. What will matter, when the time comes to transfer to a four-year college, is his community college transcript, which will indicate whether or not he has overcome his difficulties and is ready for upper-division work.</p>

<p>I think that it’s a great idea for him to go for testing while he’s living at home during the spring semester. And regardless of the diagnosis, it looks like he needs to develop some structure for making sure that his assignments are completed. I think going back to college as a commuter could be advantageous if he would like to ask a family member to help him set up (and enforce) a “system” for himself to make sure that everything gets done. It’s a bit too much to ask of a roommate, but a parent could do it, and even a sibling might not mind.</p>

<p>It might also help if he talked with the advising people at his current college to see what guidance they can give him – even though he is not attempting to return next semester. He might want to return there later on, and even if he doesn’t, it doesn’t hurt to pick their brains. They deal with situations like this all the time. They may have ideas and suggestions we wouldn’t think of.</p>

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<p>"Nrdsb4, The ability to “hyperfocus” when engaged in an interesting activity is a characteristic of ADHD. "</p>

<p>Does anyone have links to any peer reviewed journals that confirm that? I know it is described here, and in the lay press, but I have not seen it much in scientific literature. Wondering if that will be part of the next DSM, for what it’s worth. </p>

<p>With regard to “mood swings” and “bipolar”, has anyone read “Your Child Does Not Have Bipolar Disorder”? For those who want another perspective, and are up to the reading, it’s worth a look.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-child-does-not-have-bipolar-disorder/201111/fireworks-in-major-child-psychiatry-journals-”>http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-child-does-not-have-bipolar-disorder/201111/fireworks-in-major-child-psychiatry-journals-&lt;/a&gt;
d</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Your-Child-Does-Bipolar-Disorder/dp/0313381348[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Your-Child-Does-Bipolar-Disorder/dp/0313381348&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I have a dear friend that just went through this dilemma with her son. She had him withdraw and come home 3 weeks ago. I agree that it’s better at this point to not have the GPA follow him into his next college. It’s better to get him home, get him help, and forget taking finals if it’s this dire. He can decide on other plans for the future later. Right now just get him home. I would get a note from his doctor to make sure that his transcript is not permanently affected. </p>

<p>I’m so sorry you are going through this!</p>

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<p>“Given that he has two weeks left of the semester, what should he do? Withdraw?”
Yes Withdraw. If he applies to any other college he may have to do so as a transfer student and he WILL have disclose his prior enrollment. Having a transcript with WW’s [instead of F’s] can be explained as a health issue. A bunch of F’s will make it very hard for him to be accepted at any other college.</p>

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<p>I have a friend in the same boat right now although she has been diagnosed with depression. The psychologist she has been seeing thinks she had ADD/ADHD and that this can lead to depression. Her dr feels she also had ADD/ADHD but there has been no formal testing (I’m not sure what that entails)She is trying to get a medical withdrawal from her classes; don’t know if it will work. Anyway, found this link, not sure if it is backed up by the literature but maybe you could see if any of it sounds like your son.</p>

<p>[Adult</a> ADD / ADHD: Signs, Symptoms, Effects, and Treatment](<a href=“http://helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm]Adult”>http://helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm)</p>

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<p>ADHD is sometimes diagnosed by family physicians. A neuropsych. evaluation can be helpful, or an appointment with a psychiatrist, but there is no definitive test for ADHD. It is generally diagnosed based on information given by the person and family (questionnaires and interviews).</p>

<p>While bipolar diagnoses have soared, mainly for bipolar 2, “mixed”, cyclothymic and other categories that are tentative, the old-fashioned manic-depression, now called bipolar 1, is very real and quite unmistakable, and often involves psychosis. I have been told that 95% of these bipolar sufferers also have ADHD, though it is not clear through research, how much those attention problems are caused by the mood disorder. Interestingly, there are also links between bipolar 1, epilepsy and migraines. There seems to be a strong genetic component.</p>

<p>If your son has a diagnosis of any kind, it can be possible to withdraw and have the slate wiped clean. If he is failing and there is no chance of recovery, he should withdraw no matter what. </p>

<p>In any case, I agree this is a time when it is very appropriate for you to be involved, and meeting with an administrator, dean or whomever along with your son might be really useful.</p>

<p>Once he is home, there are so many options. But applying for next fall does not seem like a good idea. He could take one or two classes closer to home, and/or work, until things are better. When he does go back, perhaps he can do classes as an unmatriculated student while he waits for admission to the school he wants to attend.</p>

<p>Can he still do theater close to home?</p>

<p>p.s. shrinkwrap, I’ll try to find a link that is reputable for the hyperfocusing with ADHD; hyperfocus also happens with mania…</p>

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<p>^ Perhaps I can help; how is “hyperfocus” defined in research? I have not seen that term in any rating scales or interviews used in ADHD or mood disorder research, nor in the DSM, so maybe I have been looking for the wrong term. Anyway, I will leave that for another thread. </p>

<p>To the OP; good luck to you and your son!</p>

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<p>I am wondering why OP didn’t keep track of her son’s progress in college from day one. OP obviously knew her son had some problems in high school and maybe a bit immature, why would she wait until Thanksgiving to find the son was failing.</p>

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<p>I would absolutely call the college, my gut says all withdrawals in the long run will be better than Fs. It’s difficult to say when someone is mature enough to deal with college…for some kids it takes a year and for others it takes a couple years. Fortunately he has a “passion” in theater and he can work or take classes at a local CC and stay involved in theater locally until he’s ready to go again and understands what that entails. Good luck to you both. This can be a rough time of year for parents of new freshman. I held my breath freshman fall with 1 and I held my breath freshman fall with 2 and I still have one more to go…</p>

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<p>Some kids put their head in the sand, and the first visit home brings them out. It can be difficult to keep track of how they are doing, if the student is not forthcoming and, due to said head in sand, not even experiencing distress. I don’t think any of us can judge anyone else until we’ve had a few million children, because they are, each and every one, different from the next and unique. I know that I find I know less and less as the years go by.</p>

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<p>Call it what you will, whether it is judging or not, but OP knew what her what son was like. It would have been very reasonable to ask the son how he was doing after every test and paper in the beginning. If the son wasn’t doing well after few tests then it wouldn’t be too late to get outside help or withdraw, at this point I am not sure how OP could salvage the situation. I do wish OP and his son well. But the son will probably go back to school at some point, I would make sure he has the right support system when he returns. Letting him do it on his own is not going do it.</p>

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<p>“Do they ask for college transcripts if someone withdraws?”</p>

<p>Yes, they will ask for his transcripts. For the rest of his life whenever he applies for admission to a degree program at an accredited college or university in the US, he will be obligated to provide an official copy of the transcript from this college/university. Period.</p>

<p>When you speak with the people at the school, ask about incompletes. He may be able to rescue one or two classes yet this semester, and complete the work for the others over the course of the next six months or so. That could be a better option than a full semester of Ws, and it definitely is better than a full semester of Fs.</p>

<p>Even if he should end up with a semester of Fs, in the long run that is not a big deal. Once he gets himself on track, his new, better grades will ultimately be what matters when it comes time to transfer from a community college.</p>

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<p>Totally reasonable response, OldFort. We asked. We weren’t getting forthcoming answers.</p>

<p>FWIW, to some extent, we took a step back and let him try to handle things like grades, balancing social life, free time, etc., because we do feel he needed to be responsible without us saving him, so we realized this was a possible consequence, but being busy with two kids in college, we didn’t exactly map out what we would do if this occurred – he’s a pretty responsible kid on many things, so there was a chance that he matured enough over the summer/was enjoying college so much he was motivated to get good grades to stay/loved his classes and was inspired (we did hear a lot about how much he was learning, so kudos to the school!).</p>

<p>to the first person who replied, he is very dedicated to theatre, is very capable of the work and basically has a photographic memory, so it’s not hard to learn his lines.</p>

<p>The best thing we got out of him this weekend is that he still very much wants to study theatre, which, despite his successes, we wondered how truly committed he was to it and we’re happy that he at least has some ambitions. </p>

<p>Our concern about the ADHD/something more serious like BPP stems from his lifelong struggle with staying focused and the fact that he has great emotional highs and lows (similar to his mum!) but I’m able to actually stay on task and always have been, but I’m a female, and a pleaser who would have rather died than fail school.</p>

<p>Regarding his reluctance to share his plight with us, he said he kept feeling like he could pull himself out of it and then realized too late that he would be unable to. To tell you the truth, even if he’d gone for tutoring and had been given assistance with time management, etc., I think we’ve found out that he’s just not ready to do the work that needs to be done to earn the privilege of staying in college, which is why we’re leaning to having him just get a job, contribute to home expenses, etc. for at least a semester and not even take CC courses. Any money we/he would spend to classes I think is a waste at this point. </p>

<p>We definitely were going to call his college and get his advisor’s insight.</p>

<p>Thanks! to everyone for the great feedback and for not flaming all over my parenting skills :slight_smile: We are going to rethink the support system when he’s ready to go to college – just gotta help him figure out when to take that fork in the road.</p>