<p>Some conversations are just better avoided. Or so I tell myself. We have this same argument about ED in one form or another EVERY year on CC.</p>
<p>SB mom; What an admirable, ethical person you are!
Curmudgeon; I remember misinterpreting comments here often in the beginning. Often, we put too much emothion into the discussion when it occurs. When you go back and read it, it really isn't that offensive! Anyway, I can't imagine you intensionally offending anyone. One of the best posters!</p>
<p>Carolyn-
yep, every year, been here 3-4 and its every year
first a specific poster not getting the ramifications of ED and then the pros and cons of ED, who it helps, who it hurts, who it is meant for and NOT, always the same</p>
<p>Gleaned what info I could for my kiddos about ED and applied it accordingly</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>I was raised in a proverbial village in which I was as likely to be straightened out by my neighbors as by my parents. This is largely cultural. What I saw when I read Valdez's posts, was an obviously bright kid with amazing opportunities who was at the cusp of deciding who he's going to be. As a mentor to many URMs over the years (and it's hardly confined here), I have seen kids who come from homes and communities where poverty, prejudice and numerous factors have compromised their values. Lying, cheating, not honoring committments seem normal. Many around them live their lives this way. We all watched numerous adults from all walks of life telling Valdez to take the best deal! What I have seen happen to these bright young people is that they trip up young. Just as Valdez got into Princeton. He will get wonderful job offers from excellent corporations. He will take with him the assumption that everyone tries to get over. He won't have a hint of how inappropriate it is the first time he suggests something not above board in his job.......I have seen this over and over, strong talent without strong ethics. His bosses with believe all Latinos/blacks/fill in the blank behave this way. And so it goes.</p>
<p>dstark,</p>
<p>That made me cringe also. I would hate to think of any adcoms taking this speculation to heart, especially since some on the other thread seemed to think that Valdez might be easily identified from his posts. ~berurah</p>
<p>dstark, I don't know if you're a kid or a parent, but Northstarmom's take holds true for me. You can tell a heck of a lot about people by the level of honesty they apply to a situation. I know I'm not doing business with anyone who doesn't teach a kid to honor committments, they are simply telling the kid to live as they do.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon;</p>
<p>I think that it is very gracious of your to post an open apology, as I for did not feel offended by anything you said. I certainly understand how it is to be driven by what we truly believe in because if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything.</p>
<p>I am also of the mind set that </p>
<p>Evil prevails when good men do nothing </p>
<p>and </p>
<p>when we know better we'll do better.</p>
<p>At some level we are all responsible for one another and it is not right to watch someone do something that you know is wrong and wink or turn a blind eye to it. Many may say that it is none of our business, becasue it is an issue between V and his parents but 2 wrongs won't make something right and there is still no right way to do something that is wrong.</p>
<p>In the end V will have ot make and live with his own decision and while doing so we and he will see what he is made of.</p>
<p>to that end </p>
<p>There is no prison worse than the one you build for your self.</p>
<p>I'm 48. It is ok to suspect anything. It is another thing to publicly state your suspicions publicly without any evidence whatsoever. I find that morally repugnant.</p>
<p>The reason some of you can't find the offensive post I apologized about is that it isn't up anymore. I quickly posted and equally quickly edited it. Those in the fray saw it ,though- including Valdez. It was masterpiece of pique, as subtle as a ball-peen hammer. I will post it here so others will know the context of the apology. I said "you are well on your way to becoming a bum." and then I wondered aloud how my friend , a former Trustee of TAMU would view the situation. Not my finest hour. </p>
<p>I really intended to hit with the "shaving" bit (looking at yourself in the mirror) and leave it alone, but I got sucked in. If I'm going to hold these kids to high standards , I'm going to hold myself to higher standards. I,too, need to shave every now and again. LOL.</p>
<p>Let he who be without sin cast the first stone. </p>
<p>At one time or another we all need to take a number an stand in line for our turn at the mirror</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I don't know what you are apologizing about but 'ball-peen hammer' seems to have entered your vocabulary! :) It seems cupboard is responsible for a new word in the English language.... (or is ball-peen hammer a word that others have seen?).</p>
<p>Interesting though dstark, that you are morally offended by a quite reasonable guess, properly stated as something the poster suspected, not knew, and not morally offended at the thought of Valdez breaking his committment.</p>
<p>For those who think ED is a commitment, this is my question. Princeton has a calculator that estimates your costs. I fill it in. Princeton says my expected expenses are going to be $20,000 a year. It is a stretch for me, but I figure I can handle it. I apply ED. I am accepted. Princeton says it is going to cost me $25,000 a year. I tell Princeton I used its calculator and it said I would have to pay $20,000 a year. Princeton says sorry, the calculator is just an estimate. It is going to cost you $25,000 a year. I tell them I don't think I can afford it, I think I am going to Texas A+M. Is this really so morally wrong?</p>
<p>kirmum, we all choose what we think are right and wrong. The world isn't so black and white.</p>
<p>"Beam me up, Scotty".LOL.</p>
<p>curmudgeon,</p>
<p>You are a class act. Thumbs up to you. And I HAVE heard of a ball-peen hammer!</p>
<p>dstark,</p>
<p>Though I personally would never approve the breaking of an ED agreement (hence my son didn't apply anwhere ED), I think what you said above has validity. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>dstark,</p>
<p>We were not told that the Princeton calc was less than expected. We were told that A&M offered <em>more</em> than expected.</p>
<p>"we all choose what we think are right and wrong. The world isn't so black and white"</p>
<p>Amen. As the classic extreme ethical question, is it O.K. to steal food if your child were dying of starvation? Unethical person that I might prove to be, I sure would.</p>
<p>~b.</p>
<p>SBmom, I understand that. My question is theoretical. Is the situation as I laid out really morally wrong?</p>
<p>Aha....so that is true. There is such a thing as a ball-peen hammer. Shows what a klutz I am..</p>