A letter to my college sophomore...what do you think?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Well, it’s certainly been an interesting thread.</p>

<p>Daughter’s quote - " I like this. I think I WILL go to all my classes…at least first semester"… would raise my hackles. Why on earth should going to class be something she’ll consider rather than something she’ll do automatically, particularly when she’s had a D?</p>

<p>I say this no matter what cost school the kid attends, but I’d be especially upset too if my kid didn’t put in a full effort at an expensive school.</p>

<p>So you have a wonderful option - say the economy/market has tanked, things have changed financially, and if you don’t put in the full effort 1st semester, home you come.</p>

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<p>I certainly agree, TTL, that going to classes should be automatic, not an option. But having said that … You know, if I were being pressured into a major or career path that wasn’t what I wanted, I could be passive aggressive and skip the classes. </p>

<p>I don’t think any of this can be resolved until the family comes to an agreement as to what D will study and once reached , stick to it. Unspoken expectations that the D will do something specific are going to impact things. She’s leaning toward English but is being given info on how to transfer to another school for Animal Science. Uhhh… Ok.</p>

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<p>

My preference is for myu kids to go to a school where they experience some version of this … where the water is deep enough that they struggle some and then rachet up their performance … if they are at a school where they hit the road as a A+ student behaving like they did in HS they probably shot too low (my judgement statement there) (My kids are smart not brilliant so none of them could go to a top-top school and cruise)</p>

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<p>

OP’s D has a GPA which is basically a “B” average. How can that be in the 25th percentile?</p>

<p>I am guessing her other grades are As and Bs or the GPA would be much lower with the one D. So…………is the real issue here her choice of major?</p>

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<p>My kids pursued “impractical” majors. My D went in as a Classics Major, promptly failed Ancient Greek, had a meltdown and eventually became an American Studies Major. She did remarkably well in this major (and I don’t mean all A’s), became the research assistant for the chair of the department, and is now off to a major at King’s in London on Global Ethics. She plans law school in her future. She did a thesis on vigilante justice and lynching and is interested in the rights of prisoners and prison reform. I am very proud of her.</p>

<p>My S went in a music major – plays violin, piano, viola and composes very interesting modern classical music. Did okay in music his first two semesters; failed music his third semester. Had a meltdown. He is now a very successful Classics major studying Latin and Greek (see above – kids are different.) He is planned a dig on Italy and a semester in Greece. He has a special interest in Greek Drama.</p>

<p>Impractical? Probably. He is also studying mythology. What will he “do”? On the horizon: Classics professor, high school Latin teacher, special collections librarian (he works in the school library and loves it), theater director (has done many, many plays) high school music teacher, law school.</p>

<p>Right now the front runner is Classics Professor.</p>

<p>I agree with Joseph Campbell. Follow your bliss. There is so much competition everywhere and the society is changing so fast that “psyching out” the job market seems an impossible task.</p>

<p>I think the only secure professions will be in health care, but not everyone is cut out for this.</p>

<p>I am not perturbed that both kids have impractical majors. They both worked for all their spending money, are discovering their own strengths. They are finding themselves. I trust the rest will all follow.</p>

<p>The absolute worst case scenario? No jobs at all, and S will have to go back and do a post-bac year and then go into health care.</p>

<p>I really do think there is nothing to be afraid of.</p>

<p>I was an English major. My parents thought it foolish. Then I went for a PhD in English instead of law school. I have been employed teaching English at the college level for 25 years, the last 23 in a tenure-track, now tenured position.</p>

<p>It has been a wonderful profession for me. I have enough job security, great benefits, can work until I’m 80 should I choose, and I had plenty of time to spend with my kids. I was able to raise them and work full-time. </p>

<p>My folks thought my plans utterly impractical.</p>

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<p>

Yes, everything is relative. She is definitely not among the “smartest” at Duke, as you have admitted, if your criteria are standardized test scores. (That doesn’t mean she can’t succeed there!) Even GPA-wise in high school – “top 5” in a class of only 89 isn’t the same as top 5 in a class of 500. Why do you think she was admitted to Duke (has about a 20% acceptance rate, right?)? Geographic diversity? URM? Some other tip?</p>

<p>I, too, see so many mixed messages from you.</p>

<p>I am also concerned about the sibling. When will they go to college? Since there is no college fund for them, will you also be able to full-pay for their college? I hope so. Or will you limit them to a state school (or that level of support at any school)? Despite what others have said on that thread about sibs being treated equally (or was it “fairly”?), I don’t think it’s right to rob Peter to pay (in your case) for Princess.</p>

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<p>Just what were your expectations before your daughter left for freshman year? Did you tell her you expected top 1% performance and a 4.0 GPA?</p>

<p>Fact: 90% of Duke students were in the top 10% of their high school class. Your daughter traveled across the country to a new environment and now finds herself just an “average” in a big pond.</p>

<p>Your daughter’s Math SAT was in the 25th%-tile for Duke, expecting her to perform at even an average level, (C - 2.0), when 75% of her classmates outperformed her on the SAT and were also high level performers in high school is foolhardy at best and delusional at worst.</p>

<p>Fact: Your D’s GPA is 2.98. If she took ten total classes freshman year and got 1 “D”, her GPA without Math would have been around 3.2 if she got 2 semesters of “Ds” in math it would be closer to 3.45. Exactly what are you complaining about?</p>

<p>Your H thinks a Duke education isn’t worth it if it isn’t in the sciences. </p>

<p>Fact: That’s his problem not your daughter’s - unless he decides to hold her tuition ransom.</p>

<p>Your daughter went to Duke wanting Animal Sciences but now is unsure and thinking about changing.</p>

<p>Fact: Most, if not all students change their majors multiple times after getting to school.</p>

<p>It seems to me that there was no discussion of expectations prior to your D leaving for freshman year, yet now you’re disappointed. You aren’t allowed the luxury of being disappointed if you haven’t bothered to clearly relay to your D what the targets were. </p>

<p>As far as the cost. You’ve made it clear to me that you and H can afford to pay for her school, but you just don’t want to. You don’t want to give up your private practice just to fund your daughter’s education. You don’t want to give up the lease on your $50,000 car (what? about $800/month), because you like it and it’s one of Hubbies hobbies. And H doesn’t want to pay because it not being spent on the “right” major. </p>

<p>So what do you do? Two weeks before she returns to school you write a manipulative letter, telling her how disappointed you are with her nearly 3.00 GPA from one of the top 20 universities in America and how Daddy and Mommy aren’t going to support this type of slacking. Oh, and by the way, we don’t have the money, you’ve got 2 months to get your app in at and easier school like UC-Davis. Have a nice life.</p>

<p>Did you study passive-aggressive behavior in med school or do you feel you know enough about it from your own actions?</p>

<p>Grow up. Your daughter probably doesn’t want to be or should be a mathematician, doctor or nuclear physicist. If you can’t deal with it, too bad, it’s her life. If you don’t want to pay for it, fine, too bad for your daughter. Just don’t expect her to come breezing in at Thanksgiving telling you how happy she is with your having pulled the rug out from under her.</p>

<p>College is hard. Most of us here at CC would love to have a child at Duke with nearly a 3.0. Most us us would love to have the wherewithal to decide if we wanted to pay out of pocket for a private college education. If I were you I’d count my blessings and see the glass as have full. Good luck.</p>

<p>So endeth the rant.</p>

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<p>I laughed when I read the daughter’s response. I think she’s going to be fine.</p>

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<p>This is the single best “typo” I’ve ever seene. Totally made my day!</p>

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<p>^
D’oheth!</p>

<p>On going to class: While it’s by and large very helpful to attend class (duh), I don’t think this level of punishment for missing one class during a whole semester is all that reasonable.</p>

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<p>I skipped so many classes I probably can’t count them. My bf (later my husband) and I just didn’t seem to get out. We lived 1/2 hour away in an adorable house…</p>

<p>I graduated with a 3.89 and honors in English and was accepted into an ivy grad school.</p>

<p>Thankfully, I was paying for myself so my parents didn’t micromanage my class going.</p>

<p>Then again, I was a Woodstock, yay happy 40th, so not much was being micromanaged.</p>

<p>My kids are much more diligent than I was, and yet I don’t “demand” it of them.</p>

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<p>"professors’ office hours, TA office hours, help rooms, peer tutoring "</p>

<p>She did do that for math, at least for a while. That’s what scares me a bit.</p>

<p>“One thing that perplexes me is that she’s expected to have a great GPA”</p>

<p>Where do you see this? The way I see it, I’m seeing as I go, feeling her out about what’s right (both effort and outcome) for be.</p>

<p>"but there still seems to be some pressure on her to take science/'</p>

<p>Again, where is this? The note you read reflects conversations we leave had. she mentions being so science major a minor, she did an internship in Animal Science at UCD this summer and loved it.</p>

<p>.What if she were to take all English classes and get a 4.0? I sense your H still wouldn’t be pleased with that as it doesn’t have as much “promise” as science. </p>

<p>Maybe, but be doesn’t she this to her.</p>

<p>What grades DO you expect Duke students to get?</p>

<p>My only goal Were, is that her effort is as great as mine. May not work out that way, but I’ve come to realize that is what I want.</p>

<p>I have also learned here on CC, that if you we not sure about your school, it pays to keep your GPA high enough to transfer. She seems sure now, but that was not true in the past.</p>

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<p>I probably should have skipped more classes, I’m just paranoid. But I do remember vividly one Shakespeare class when the boy in front of me stood up mid-lecture that he’d had enough of the ramblings of this prof and he wasn’t going to waste his time in class any more. I followed him out of there and never looked back. Luckily the TA was quite good, and I got a B in the course.</p>

<p>I’m good at math, and even I had to go to get math help from time to time in Calculus. Calculus seems to use a different part of the brain than algebra!</p>

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<p>Wow! This is really interesting!</p>

<p>“So what do you do? Two weeks before she returns to school you write a manipulative letter, telling her how disappointed you are with her nearly 3.00 GPA from one of the top 20 universities in America and how Daddy and Mommy aren’t going to support this type of slacking. Oh, and by the way, we don’t have the money, you’ve got 2 months to get your app in at and easier school like UC-Davis. Have a nice life”</p>

<p>How did you get that from what I posted?
Forum dynamics are really interesting. Over and over I have asked some of you to show me which lines in my letter are demanding a major, critical, or punitive. I just don’t see it! Perhaps you are including what I have posted here, in interpreting what I wrote to m D. of course its possible that she’s picking it up, but at best, it would be the mild impression that doctors cm afford expensive cares. Now things like that have never been important to her, and I really admire that. They are not important to me either (but I must say, D and I are really impressed by this car).</p>

<p>“Just what were your expectations before your daughter left for freshman year? Did you tell her you expected top 1% performance and a 4.0 GPA?”</p>

<p>We told her no academic probation.</p>

<p>“Your daughter traveled across the country to a new environment and now finds herself just an “average” in a big pond.”</p>

<p>Again, the school gives the exact number of your class rank. It was not average. I don’t know if my D is even aware of this number. (I.ve said nothing about it, or her grades to her.</p>

<p>“Your daughter’s Math SAT was in the 25th%-tile for Duke, expecting her to perform at even an average level, (C - 2.0), when 75% of her classmates outperformed her on the SAT and were also high level performers in high school is foolhardy at best and delusional at worst.”</p>

<p>Didn’t know what to expect. I’ve been coming to CC, trying to make sense of it all. That’s why I’m watching, waiting, learning as I go.</p>

<p>“You don’t want to give up the lease on your $50,000 car (what? about $800/month)”, </p>

<p>$500. Turned the $800 back in to take the pressure off (… boy am I going to regret posting that, but whatev!..)</p>

<p>About the class attendance thing. I did not criticize or punish. I DID offer In incentive. I don’t know. But c’mon…Your teacher sayss “if you miss more X classes you will not get Y grade”, and then you miss X classes anyway? What does that mean? Her earliest class was 10AM.</p>

<p>Ok, I’m done defending myself, but I will keep reading.</p>

<p>Thanks all!</p>

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<p>Shrinkrap, did the low grades come mostly from first semester, or were they spread throughout the year?</p>

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<p>I get much the same impression as vinceh. Shrinkrap, if you’re not “disappointed” in her performance to date, then why are you giving advice on how to transfer to UCD? Of course you’re disappointed! By golly she’s only a B student!</p>

<p>I also think you need to separate out work ethic from grades. One can have a good work ethic and do poorly in a given subject because it just doesn’t click. If she likes English, maybe calculus will never click. So what?</p>

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<p>Yes, Pizzagirl, you’ve made it very clear how you feel. But you have not noted the line in my letter which suggest disappointment, criticism, and punishment. Still, I am taking you feelings to heart. and hoping she doesn’t read it the way you did (So far, so good.) I can see how it looks like I’m pushing UC Davis. </p>

<p>The letter is because she said she wanted to transfer, as recently as Christmas vacation. Although I did put it off very early this summer, she left suddenly to become a camp counselor, and this is the first time we’ve spent together since then. She is not a cc kid. She does not know the transfer process, she does not know how to apply for a loan. I did some research, and wrote it down.</p>

<p>“I also think you need to separate out work ethic from grades.”</p>

<p>I agree.</p>

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<p>At Christmas, she said she wanted to transfer. But you said upthread she wants to remain at Duke, and your letter outlines the financial ramifications of that (she has to cover x and here’s how to go about getting it). I’m confused - does she want to transfer, or does she not want to but you want her to?</p>

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<p>She wanted to transfer at Christmas, now she does not. I can assume she will not change her mind again, but UC transfer applications are due early, and you can really only do it between sophomore and junior year.</p>

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<p>Wow. I’m driving the “new” car in the family … a five year old Honda. My husband is driving a ten year old one. My kids are in a top LAC and an Ivy, which we are financing with sacrifices. They are surrounded by brilliant kids and may not be quite the superstars they were in high school. So what? We’ve supported the changes in majors and the things that they want to try. We live frugally so that they can have new experiences and meet people from all walks of life, which they have. </p>

<p>That being said, my kids go to class and try their best. They are hard on themselves; we don’t have to (or want to) be hard on them. We never had a talk before they went to school (or during school) about what they were supposed to achieve. How could we know what that would be? How could they?</p>

<p>However, I’d be pretty darn angry if either of them told me that they “think” they’ll go to classes for a semester.</p>