<p>Where, please?</p>
<p>Shrinkrap,</p>
<p>Has your daughter (or you) contacted Duke to ask them to readjust your financial aid package (or give you financial aid, if you currently don’t receive any)?</p>
<p>Duke is one of the few schools in this country that pledges to – and can-- readjust their financial aid for students and families as their financial picture changes. I’ve even heard a story of them suddenly providing much aid during the middle of a semester, emergency-style, for a student who’s working parent suddenly died with no insurance/assets available.</p>
<p>Why not contact them?</p>
<p>Their dean of financial aid used to be at Barnard. Her name is Allison Rabil. Undergraduate Financial Aid 919-684-6225 <a href=“mailto:finaid@duke.edu”>finaid@duke.edu</a>. </p>
<p>Additionally, Duke has a large on-campus work/study (and non-work/study) employment program. A friend of mine who went to Duke worked everywhere from the campus gym to as a paid research assistant (in a field unrelated to her major!) for a professor. Is your daughter working during the year? Will she try to find a job? My impression is that a substantial part of the Duke student body works part-time during the year on campus, if you include working with/for faculty and the like. . . </p>
<p>Just two ideas.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, it’s more than a little frustrating when you post A, I say, “Ah, so what you’re saying is A,” and then you respond by “huh? where am I saying A”? See post 94 for a perfect example.</p>
<p>Where do you say she’s “bottom of the class”? Well, gee, here in your original letter.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ah!..Good point, thanks! I think this is the first example youv’e given me, and I appreciate it.</p>
<p>Our EFC on FAFSA was $89K, but the numbers will be VERY different in 2010. FWIW, D has responded better than I could have imagined. She is looking for work on campus, we’ve had a great weekend, and are heading to son’s tournament for a game and a last dinner. She has never been to a club tourney before.</p>
<p>Re: post 99. I can walk away at any time. Really. :D</p>
<p>In the part of the letter titled “What we’ve learned since Senior Year” you wrote that “you would contribute $3,500.00, and not go on academic probation.” In “The Part about the Academic Expectation” you wrote that “last year’s academic expectation was set pretty low” but that now you want to renegotiate what she thinks is a “reasonable expectation.” So that’s changing the rules. She’s not on academic probation, so she held up her end of the bargain.</p>
<p>But again, I see all of that as a red herring for what is, essentially, a money issue. As others have said, don’t tie her grades to the financial necessity of a transfer. She did what you said you wanted of her academically – no probation. The mistake, perhaps, was in setting your expectation too low, as you said in your letter. Or not planning to reassess each year.</p>
<p>One thing about these threads is that people polarize themselves.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap: I think you are being just a little disingenuous. There is the whiff of negativity if your letter and attitude. Maybe it’s not as strong as posters are suggesting, and maybe no one can point his/her finger on it to his/her satisfaction but the effect prevails.</p>
<p>You are getting all these opinions because you elicited them by posting your letter.</p>
<p>Of course you have the right to whatever priorities are right for your family and to conduct yourself as choose with your daughter.</p>
<p>Your post gave the impression that you were asking for reactions, or maybe just approval? I’m not sure.</p>
<p>Some parents endorse your approach, some don’t. That’s just about the same with everything.</p>
<p>Each parent has to decide for him/herself how deep the sacrifice will go for college. And I have asked myself the same question about Williams, that perhaps it’s too difficult for S. I have suggested that to him and reminded him that I thought he might prefer a slightly easier school. But he said he wanted to stay. So I said that he had to succeed. And he is.</p>
<p>He grades aren’t higher. But they weren’t really a problem in the first place. He just had a feeling of foundering. </p>
<p>I think that’s quite common even if all students don’t experience it.</p>
<p>I understand a bit of your panic. You sound like the kind of person who has all her ducks in a row, and now there’s a lot of uncertainty. It IS uncomfortable.</p>
<p>From my experience they really begin to find themselves at the end of sophomore year when then choose a major. Be patient.</p>
<p>About the money. Can’t help there. Again, everyone is different. We are really struggling. Our choice, for sure. I understand about cars. I love cars. When my ten year old car died, I bought a used Saab convertible for a reasonable price. It’s hot and cheap. I was very, lucky.</p>
<p>Then on a whim I rebuilt the motor of the old Saab and gave to to S for his car. It has $130,000 miles, and I didn’t think I’d get much for it. It’s helping him grow up, so it’s a good investment.</p>
<p>Again, academic and monetary issues are separate.</p>
<p>I don’t think you and your H are the only ones with pangs of “Why the heck are we doing this. Junior doesn’t really seem to appreciate it.” </p>
<p>Well, I think that’s the nature of the beast, from time immemorial. Our kids will have their turn to be unappreciated in time.</p>
<p>After I feel a pang like that, I remember that I am doing it for myself, for the satisfaction of watching my kids have experiences and opportunities that I didn’t, to avoid the pain of watching other kids have opportunities that mine don’t because I’m not willing to provide them.</p>
<p>In the end, it really is all about me. I am so glad my kids benefit.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What makes you think that B students at Duke - a top 10 university - wind up unable to support themselves?</p>
<p>What makes you think that B students at Duke - a top 10 university - wind up unable to support themselves? </p>
<p>Did I say that? You seem to quote at of context.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I get the impression you are not a big fan. Ok, but I also feel a bit misunderstood. And I also get, that I asked for input. Yes, I did, and I appreciate it. May not do it again, but thanks. It’s been a little painful, but helpful too, so again, thanks.</p>
<p>“I think you are being just a little disingenuous. There is the whiff of negativity if your letter and attitude.”</p>
<p>disingenuous…I LOVE that word.</p>
<p>Cold comfort, I’m sure, but I appreciate you posting. It makes me realize that I want to be really clear with ds about our expectations. I’ve never thought much about a minimum GPA, but he’s looking at some pretty good schools, and it’s likely he won’t be pulling straight As. This is making me think of how low is good enough.</p>
<p>^Please let me know where you think I changed the rules. </p>
<p>NVM, I see. I am asking her for her input and it sound’s like I am imposing a rule. It would only be fair to stick with academic probation at this point.</p>
<p>"I understand a bit of your panic. You sound like the kind of person who has all her ducks in a row, "</p>
<p>Ha ha!</p>
<p>Not really a panic though…just a “what do you think?”.</p>
<p>You’re asking for her input because it sounds like you’re going to be changing the previously stated rule. “Not being on academic probation” isn’t good enough now, it seems.</p>
<p>That’s good, thank you.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap: What do I think? I think your girl will find her sea legs and do well at Duke. Maybe even in English (my adored field.)</p>
<p>And I think it stinks that we have to sacrifice for their educations. Actually I think it’s kind of crazy.</p>
<p>But there it is.</p>
<p>We can opt out. I chose to opt in.</p>
<p>I really hope things work out well.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, I admire you for hanging in here on this thread! I don’t agree with some of the points you raised in your original post, but I think several of the responses have been surprisingly harsh. CC is the best online community I’ve found for parenting issues, college-related or not, but it’s not always the comfiest place to ask certain questions.</p>
<p>Glad to hear that your d has received your concerns in a mature light. We haven’t tied our support of our kids’ educations to major, location, or performance (though many parents do - it’s their money). But effort? Absolutely! I don’t think that parents should work harder than their students in an attempt to provide the ideal college experience. We’re willing to suck it up as long as our kids are willing to recognize that their first priority is their education, not their friends or ECs (wonderful as those may be). Sometimes an honest effort will result in disappointing grades. 50 percent of the kids at Duke are in the bottom half of the class - they can’t all be goofing off.</p>
<p>I’m with you on writing letters about important topics - not as a way to avoid face-to-face communication, but as a way to be sure I can get my points across. In my family, conversations on touchy subjects have a way of veering off into unproductive areas (especially once dh gets involved). My kids have adopted the practice. The youngest has taken it to another level and has done several Powerpoint presentations about privileges she wants (my favorite being, when she was in 7th grade, “Why Firstname Lastname Should Be Aloud to Have Her Ears Pierced.” She’s not our spelling champ. 
)</p>
<p>I’m sure your d’s GPA will improve - they usually do.</p>
<p>^Thank you.</p>
<p>Thank you ALL.</p>
<p>Shrinkwrap – I’ve been mulling over this thread since you originally posted and I hope my take on this doesn’t make you feel as if you’re being beaten up.</p>
<p>I think you are in an extremely difficult position. You have a fulfilling career treating patients in private practice. Your husband is invested in certain expensive lifestyle choices, and giving up some of his greatly enjoyed possessions – for any reason – would be painful. Suddenly, the US economy has tanked, along with a very sad death in your family, making it more difficult for you to pay the 50K it takes to send your D, full pay, to Duke. </p>
<p>The 5K or so a year you are asking your daughter to borrow – which could easily be justified as the skin-in-the-game commitment many parents require as a matter of course – would not drive you out of your private practice and into the HMO practice you despise, nor would it force your husband to drive a clunker, if you had to come up with it yourselves. It sounds as if it is largely symbolic. BUT – it also sounds as if, unless something can be done to augment your private practice income soon, keeping your daughter at Duke for three more years might force you into unfulfilling work. (Not to mention, if D stays at Duke, you may not have funds to send Kid #2 to a private university, and if such a university turns out to be appropriate for him, this could also force you into HMO practice.)</p>
<p>Here’s the thing: It sounds as if, were your daughter thriving with a GPA that you and she thought was satisfactory at Duke, and particularly if she were thriving in the kind of science-based major that seems to interest her and that would point toward future employability, you would feel more willing to make the huge sacrifice of giving up your practice. BUT - as recently as January, D wanted to leave Duke. She had tremendous difficulty passing math and she was feeling “less than.” </p>
<p>Now granted, if you believed that if she would bring her A game, she could surmount this academic obstacle and thrive, that would be one story. But given the emphasis you’ve put on her (comparatively low) SAT’s and the nagging doubts you seem to have as to whether she is academically as capable or perhaps as prepared as her classmates, it appears to have crossed your mind that D might, in fact, be better off at a different, less rigorous university.</p>
<p>You live in a state with excellent public universities at a low cost. If your D would be better off out of Duke, and if she wanted to get out of Duke, and if she wanted to and could attend a UC, and if it were appreciably less difficult to do well GPA-wise at one of her UC’s of choice, and if you truly believed this, then both you and she could be better off in terms of your work/school milieu and your husband could keep the Beemer. But there are an awful lot of “if’s” there. </p>
<p>One thing that is really striking to me is the comparative magnitude of the sacrifices you versus your husband will be making to keep a child in a private university. (Yes, I know you think the car is cool, too.) I also think that when you look at your rationale for not anticipating that your son will attend a costly university, you will see that level of the child’s academic achievement/motivation and the eliteness (Is this a word?) of the university do seem to factor into your willingness to give up something really important. For example, if you believed that a second tier LAC college that changes life kind of school would be perfect for Kid #2, would you be as willing to give up private practice to send him there as you would be to send him to Yale, if you believed Yale was his perfect fit? </p>
<p>It seems important to try to sort out whether, completely apart from the money, you think Duke is the right place for your daughter and where you would stand on the possible transfer versus gutting it out if the recession were over. If you aren’t willing to give up your career to send a child to a school where either you don’t believe she’s putting out her best effort (not attending classes would be a problem for me as a parent) or where you don’t believe she’s best served, it seems to me that you need to know that with more clarity before you start giving D what could be mixed messages.</p>
<p>And I don’t think you’re a bad person or a bad parent either way.</p>
<p>I don’t think its a clear cut “either you can afford it or you can’t” issue. While channel surfing at a motel recently, I saw a show about women buying wedding gowns. Some of these women would fall in love with a gown above their price range and the discussion would then become, “How badly do I want this dress? What could I compromise on – the amount of alcohol served at the wedding, the number of people I invite, etc.?” I think these things often come down to weighing various budget choices and deciding what’s most important.</p>
<p>Those where great. Thanks. CCSurfer, I really appreciate the time that took.</p>
<p>I think the transfer or not decision does not need to be made right now. Maybe the economy will pick up. Maybe as an English major your daughter will work super hard. But… don’t shut that door either. I’d have her fill out the transfer forms as a way of covering yourself. “Hon, I’m a little nervous about the economy. Perhaps it won’t come to needing to transfer, but I’d feel better if we had that option available for next year.”</p>
<p>Have her fill out the paperwork and then reassess later in the academic year.</p>
<p>My first gen husband loves his fancy car too. Smiles every time he drives it all of the 1.2 miles to work. He feels physical pain when I drive it on the gravel roads!</p>
<p>Shrink, I really appreciate you sharing your situation and your thoughts with us. I don’t understand some of the responses in this thread from others, but I think it’s great you’ve shown a lot of patience and tolerance in your responses. I’m not sure I could have done the same. </p>
<p>I’m not reading into the circumstances you describe that you and H are being manipulative, punitive, or unfair. I don’t know where those saying such things are coming from. I guess they’d really get on my case if they knew some of the ways I deal with similar circumstances. To each his own, but we have both expressed and implied expectations, and when they are not being met sometimes the game plan changes as a result. Nothing wrong with that. </p>
<p>You came here asking about the effectiveness of your letter to communicate some things D needs to know, and that your family needs to discuss. However, it appears some people have gone well beyond this to question the sincerity of your motives, your logic, and to some extent, accusing you of having a hidden agenda with your D. The fact you and H have the audacity to treat yourself to a nice set of wheels is also apparently some form of violation of personal integrity. It seems we are not to have a life while paying for our kids to go to college – even if they are not doing their best we should continue to deprive ourselves for their benefit. This is just proposterous and utterly ridiculous to me. Parental sacrifice without commensurate seriousness on the part of the student is a waste. Some people might come up with various emotional justifications for it, but I don’t buy it. I’m a parent, not a sucker. </p>
<p>Your D has responded to your letter appropriately it sounds. Despite the judgement of others here, it seems to be working – as it should. I’m very happy to hear you guys are making progress.</p>