Non-traditional treatments are interesting. And not to get further sidetracked, but it’s interesting that the panic symptoms were ultimately identified and treated as seizure symptomatology.
It is understandable that we parents will explore whatever we can to help our kids. At one point one of my kids had an injury that involved very small capillary action , and in some places treatment involved using leeches to help with blood flow. When o asked about it, they looked at me like I had 2 heads.
Given the info about the gymnastics background, it now makes a lot of sense to me why she was drawn to the dance class. I think you will need to set the boundaries your family needs to function (not waking people up in the middle of the night, for one) but beyond helping her find work to partially support herself, it sounds like she could benefit from a physical activity that she enjoys. I am NOT suggesting this in lieu of a counselor, as has been thoroughly discussed upthread, but she seems like a person who benefits from and is used to a lot of physical movement.
I sent you a message. I was in your exact situation.
A friend went to a prestigious school 2000 miles from home and did not do well. She was certainly smart enough for the school, but there were just too many changes for her to handle all at once. She had had some new medications added or subtracted (and still continues to) because new medical issues were coming to light in the 16-20 year age range. She’d been very active in her own 504 plans and disability plans, she’d been involved in her own medical care and choices, but it proved to be too much to handle the academics, the medical, the social, the loneliness of missing her family, the travel, the deadlines all at once. She went for a year, took a break and she (and the family) realized it wasn’t worth being miserable just to go to the prestigious school. She now lives at home and commutes. She’s doing much better in the city university. She does much better when she has one physical activity class like yoga or dance, even though she gets some exercise just walking to the train and around campus. She really needs a lot of structure but does manage her free time with reading, crafts, baking, computer games, etc.
By the way, she doesn’t drive. My daughter was a preemie and rarely has the same issues as other preemies (vision, asthma, LD) but this is one that almost all preemies seem to have. The issue may be with eye-hand coordination. My daughter finally took a driving course when she was 18 (and this was Florida so if you are breathing they will give you a license with no restrictions; the ‘test’ was about 5 minutes long). She learned in the smallest car available. She still cannot drive my car because it is a manual transmission. For 3 years after getting her license she really didn’t drive, and then last summer, at 21, started driving a VW bug (automatic) and she is much better, but took 2-3 months before she’d drive on a highway, or drive at night, or in the rain, or in traffic. Parking? Get real. The space has to be HUGE.
Anyway, we have a lot of ‘preemie’ friends, most of these kids are 18-21, and most of them don’t drive. It is such a minor part of our lives that we’d rather expend the energy worrying about other things. They are all really good at taking public transportation!
I was reflecting on this thread, and the issue of therapy. I think that my attitude toward brain-based psychiatric issues, like the ADHD and anxiety (if clinical) mentioned by the OP, and certainly bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, is that they should be viewed medically. So physiological approaches, whether medications or exercise, make sense.
What is the difference between, say, ADHD and bipolar 1 and epilepsy? Would we send someone with seizures to talk therapy to help the condition? Would talk treat cancer or diabetes?
That said, talk therapy can help sufferers and caregivers alike with the repercussions of an illness or disorder, and with the family dynamics that sometimes rise up.
But when a problem is physical, and genetic, it is frustrating when therapists treat it as an emotional problem that can be talked out. Talking about relationships when an agitated manic person is smashing things really isn’t appropriate.
Therapist aren’t always up on this distinction. Neuropsychologists and psychiatrists are.
Comp- I agree with you in theory but the reality is that when an adolescent or post-adolescent has a physical ailment, many times the therapeutic piece gets lost in the shuffle- and that can really slow down or hamper recovery, or progress, or just an accurate diagnostic picture. And it’s simplistic to describe all therapy as “talking about relationships”- much therapy right now is targeted to giving the patient the tools (verbal, non-verbal) to deal with behavioral issues, not just whining about the conflict with XYZ family member.
Would a kid with an eating disorder recover with just the nutritional intervention? Almost every expert would say no. You can restore a teenager’s glucose levels with IV and an intense eating regimen, but without behavioral therapy, that kid will head back to starving herself very quickly. Would an addict recover by going cold turkey? Some do. Most do not. The patterns that led to substance abuse don’t get cured once the heroin is out of the system.
If you’ve had a bad experience with therapy I can respect that- but the answer is to find a better therapist. And to find a practice which employs a neurospych, a psychiatrist, and several counselors skilled in a wide range of interventions who work closely together and with patients/families in crisis is the best of all. Meds plus everything else. Or just meds. Or just everything else. And having someone in the practice who refers to endocrinologists, neurologists, etc. is even better.
I’ve got a friend whose D was a “holy terror” as a teenager. After years of everything, a glandular disorder was diagnosed. She takes a pill twice a day and is a delightful and productive member of society. Not prozac, nothing behavioral- a chemical substitute for what her thyroid isn’t producing.
Talk doesn’t treat cancer but it sure helps. (chemo and radiation can cause terrible side effects on mood, memory and behavior).
DBT and CBT et al do not address bipolar disorder in its worst manifestations. Lithium does. Therapy is helpful in dealing with the consequences of an episode, in understanding triggers, but the actual treatment is physiological. If that is not understood, then real help is delayed.
We have used therapists, yes, but I would not consider therapy as a first line approach for brain-based disorders. I would counsel the OP to consult psychiatry before therapy and then follow up with a therapist if needed.
I have never counseled AGAINST therapy, only that other things are needed.
@maters - my daughter didn’t do better with more time - she did worse. Having a full defined schedule was much better for her
I used to be a medical editor, and I did a lot of work with ADHD research. The common refrain professionals used was “pills don’t give skills.” Pills are very important in addressing the neurological symptoms of ADHD for example, but they can’t address things like executive function. The pills can help get you to a place where you can focus, but you still need to learn strategies to help you succeed. This isn’t talk therapy; this is teaching concrete strategies like study skills, organizational skills, etc. You can’t get that from taking a pill. Similarly, if emotional dysregulation is a symptom (explosive outbursts, etc) therapies like DBT can help tremendously.
OP was asking about setting up boundaries and guidelines. A therapist with knowledge of these strategies can help here, in terms of goals and consequences.
While this is an interesting discussion, I fear we have scared away OP.
Nope-I’m here! I think that therapy and an executive function coach will be in the mix. The therapy because she is feeling very down about how things are going and because we need to get on the same page as a family. And the executive function coach for the ADHD. She’s already asked for a gym membership, and she is pretty diligent about going (or at least was last summer when she was here).
OP-- hugs to you. This must be incredibly stressful for you guys as a family, and terrifying for your D. I admire the way you are listening and reading with an open mind. Your D is lucky to have you guys in her corner !
And fwiw, I was suggesting therapy for the family, given that the parents may not be seeing eye to eye and also need support to support their D. I am assuming that D will, as planned, have her own resources (including a psychiatrist ). And as mentioned by @compmom , they will find an approach that they can enforce consistently, which means feels right/is authentic for the family.
A family member recently went through a different version of this, involving self-injury , and everyone living in the house was affected and needed support. Which they did not realize at the outset but became quite apparent over time.
Op, we’ve come through the tunnel. Child with the diagnosis is a functioning adult with all the trappings of adulthood and completely independent of her parents. Not gonna lie. Not easy. But, I son’t think you’re asking for help managing the disorders. I think the question you’re really asking is how you get from where you are now to where you want to be in a short period of time, a year, and avoid the pitfalls of last summer.
Yes, you start with a diagnosis (pay for testing with a clinical psychologist at the PhD level) and therapy. We’ve had some effective therapists and some not-so-effective therapists. YMMV, but it does bother me to see therapy held up almost like some kind of magical savior. It’s a lot of work, done by the recipient. So, if someone isn’t willing to do that work, don’t care how good the therapist is. And therapy’s slow. Painfully slow.
For practical reasons our choices are more complicated than “get everybody into therapy and wait until that process sorts everything out” or “tough love.” Good news. You can do both. You can get the kid into therapy and still make demands of her. Since she’s 20, they should be demands made of most adults (pay your bills, get yourself up for appointments or work, make your own meals/clean up after yourself), and not the same demands you make of a child living with you (curfew, room cleaning). You can say I will not wake you up. If you miss work because your overslept and get fired and can’t pay your cell phone bill, then you will lose the cell phone. You just need to decide on a few practical, adult skills you think you need to work on first, and yes, you can ask the therapist about your skill list.
OP is she on meds? I think she must be given all the work you guys have put into this, but I just know what a god send the meds are for our ADHD son.
@ordinarylives She’s been diagnosed at the UCLA ADHD clinic by a PhD and has had a psychiatrist since she was 8. I know that therapy isn’t a magic bullet -I’ve been in therapy a lot for my depression/anxiety. Hopefully she will be willing to do the work
@TempeMom yes, she has been on meds since 7th grade. They help with the focus but not the executive function skills.
My husband talked to the dean today and my daughter is taking a medical leave effective immediately. He said if she did not do so her academic record would be at risk since she is only passing one class. I was hopeful she would pass three classes this semester and take a personal (vs. medical) leave for a year, as I think it’s easier to be readmitted if one takes a personal leave. But it is what it is.
Deep breaths. I know this was never in your “plan” for your D. My D also left school— she took 3 semesters off (though did take some CC courses) and transferred to a new university. She’s been back in school full time this fall and is doing great. She did great with the therapy and you wouldn’t recognize her as the same kid. Just remember life is a journey not a race. School will always be there, and so will work. Allow her to take the time she needs to get healthy, mature, whatever it is. I know the judgmental eyes from friends, family, neighbors can be hard to deal with sometimes but if you are confident that you are doing right by your daughter then who cares what anyone else thinks. You have great courage. Hugs!
It seems that working with EF coach might help. During freshman year my DD did not really appreciate the value of this type of coaching. Her second year she attended these sessions religiously once a week. Apparently, they are big help. Who knew
That is great news that she got a medical leave with the slate wiped clean in terms of transcript. That is really really important and will help her feel she can truly start fresh at some point. I honestly think that any conditions for reentry are worth it if the failing grades are not on the transcript. This leaves her with many options for the future.
There have been times in our lives when psych. issues of one kid took a lot of focus. At this moment, I am up at 3am in touch with another one of my kids, who is 3,000 miles away with a type 1 diabetes crisis that is scary. Dangerously high, did insulin, dangerously low, did emergency glucagon injection, the meter and sensor don’t agree, and she has seizures if she gets no sleep. I have two more hours to go until the insulin in her system is gone and she is safe again. I have the number of the security guard in her building if she doesn’t answer my calls. She got this awful disease at age 4 and will always have it.
This is a reminder to me and maybe you that the most important thing is that they stay alive. If that is the case, all things are still possible.
Hugs OP and to everyone!
OP, it’s a long road ahead, and I think that feels daunting and not knowing the path is very hard. DS started at a very competitive LAC 7 years ago (!) and did very well year one. DH and I retired (we’re older parents) and started to make a new life for ourselves.
Past 7 years: DS had 2 medical leaves of absence from his LAC and lived at home for months each time. Changed schools to local university and for a while commuted and then had an apartment close by. Another leave. Changed to an online school while living at home. Fingers crossed will graduate in March.
He remains in therapy by his choice but medication is the key I think. We have had him evaluated extensively over the years (starting at age 7) not only by psychiatrists/neurologists but also endocrinologists which was very important. DH and I have done therapy as well as we needed support. DS lives at home but is basically responsible for himself - meals on his own, laundry, etc. Started driving last summer after we hired an instructor specializing in anxious adults. His goals include getting a full-time job (he works 3 days/week currently) with benefits. He will be off our insurance next summer.
We got him a dog 2 years ago which has been instrumental in encouraging exercise, getting out in the daylight,and has also brought him lots of love and reassurance.
As Mainelonghorn and compmom said, what’s important is that he is alive. What’s been hard is the line between support and enabling, and we continue to struggle with that. And, selfishly, how we expected to spend this time in our lives has changed greatly. One of us is always around - we have not vacationed/traveled together in 7 years. But that is what is.