Affirmative Action just leads to more racism.

Applying to College
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<p>Just an interesting article from The Boston Globe:</p>

<p>Omaha Schools Split Along Race Lines
By Scott Bauer, Associated Press Writer | April 13, 2006</p>

<p>LINCOLN, Neb. --In a move decried by some as state-sponsored segregation, the Legislature voted Thursday to divide the Omaha school system into three districts -- one mostly black, one predominantly white and one largely Hispanic.</p>

<p>Supporters said the plan would give minorities control over their own school board and ensure that their children are not shortchanged in favor of white youngsters.</p>

<p>Republican Gov. Dave Heineman signed the measure into law.</p>

<p>Omaha Sen. Pat Bourne decried the bill, saying, "We will go down in history as one of the first states in 20 years to set race relations back."</p>

<p>"History will not, and should not, judge us kindly," said Sen. Gwen Howard of Omaha.</p>

<p>Attorney General Jon Bruning sent a letter to one of the measure's opponents saying that the bill could be in violation of the Constitution's equal-protection clause and that lawsuits almost certainly will be filed.</p>

<p>But its backers said that at the very least, its passage will force policymakers to negotiate seriously about the future of schools in the Omaha area.</p>

<p>The breakup would not occur until July 2008, leaving time for lawmakers to come up with another idea.</p>

<p>"There is no intent to create segregation," said Omaha Sen. Ernie Chambers, the Legislature's only black senator and a longtime critic of the school system.</p>

<p>He argued that the district is already segregated, because it no longer buses students for integration and instead requires them to attend their neighborhood school.</p>

<p>Chambers said the schools attended largely by minorities lack the resources and quality teachers provided others in the district. He said the black students he represents in north Omaha would receive a better education if they had more control over their district.</p>

<p>Coming from Chambers, the argument was especially persuasive to the rest of the Legislature, which voted three times this week in favor of the bill before it won final passage on the last day of the session.</p>

<p>Omaha Public Schools Superintendent John Mackiel said the law is unconstitutional and will not stand.</p>

<p>"There simply has never been an anti-city school victory anywhere in this nation," Mackiel said. "This law will be no exception."</p>

<p>The 45,000-student Omaha school system is 46 percent white, 31 percent black, 20 percent Hispanic, and 3 percent Asian or American Indian.</p>

<p>Boundaries for the newly created districts would be drawn using current high school attendance areas. That would result in four possible scenarios; in every scenario, two districts would end up with a majority of students who are racial minorities.</p>

<hr>

<p>On the Net:</p>

<p>Nebraska Legislature: <a href="http://www.unicam.state.ne.us%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.unicam.state.ne.us&lt;/a> </p>

<p>IB</p>

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<p>I actually read about the Omaha situation today. Coincidence...</p>

<p>So technically, segregation already exists...let's use this division to come up with a legal manner of dividing up the districts so that a particular group would control their own resources. That's what I got from the article. </p>

<p>Pandora's box is opening...</p>

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<p>IsleBoy, what an interesting story! Maybe Americans have had it with integration, and are ready to go back to segregation again (but the difference this time being that it's more self enforced?).</p>

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<p>To tell you the truth, this bothers me. </p>

<p>I don't think the problems necessarily lie with integration itself...more with the problems of lack of funding and resources for certain schools. Why is there such a disparity in resoucres for schools within the same district? Why did it have to come down to this type of legislation?</p>

<p>It reminds me of my area in a way. The "nicer" schools tend to be majority white while the "less-than-stellar" schools have more minorities.</p>

<p>I am curious as to how exactly this would work...</p>

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<p>I am also perturbed by this as well.</p>

<p>I think it just makes it more difficult for the schools with predominently URM populations to help their kids succeed.</p>

<p>And, segregation exists.</p>

<p>I'm a bit shocked...but balkanization can't be far behind????</p>

<p>I'm not sure about this being able to work on so many levels....</p>

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<p>I agree that AA is racist, and leads to more racism. It's ridiculous to relate race with poverty directly, as many seem to.</p>

<p>My mother was an immigrant who came with literally less than 100 dollars in her pocket. She had a college degree abroad--she was from a poor teaching family though-- yet could barely speak English. However she came here, worked hard and ended up graduating with a degree in America in mathematics.</p>

<p>My father was born in America and grew up in a poor farming family--(his mother didn't finish high school, and his dad died when he was little)-- but he's not URM. He ended up going to college and graduated with a science degree, and then got his graduate degree in computer science. This is purely through his own hard work and nobody helped him along the way. </p>

<p>Neither of my parents is a URM, considering I am Asian and Caucasian. Yet both worked extremely hard to get what they have today, and one could barely speak English. AA is just blatantly racist in that it directly correlates race with poverty, and it discriminates against the poor who are not URM. It also discriminates against potentially more deserving students, solely because of the color of their skin.</p>

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<p>Additionally, I fail to see how standardized tests discriminate against certain races, if they were born in America at least. There's no evidence of this and everyone--regardless of race--is capable of doing well on the SAT, weighing in such factors as innate intelligence and hard work.</p>

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<p>Of course you fail to see how the the test are discriminatory. As for evidence, read:</p>

<p>Shape of the River
The Big Test</p>

<p>Just to name a few. 'innate' intelligence is not what is tested by the SAT. It's a test of a norm. IQ would be an intelligence test. If the SATs were robust or indeed an actual measure of intelligence, then it would not be coachable as per Kaplan or Princeton Review. Funny, but the latter is a multi-million dollar industry.</p>

<p>As for your parents....you father probably went to college before the mid-1990's where there was a shift in policy, and fewer URMs. As for your mother, from elsewhere, she probably did not face as much racism with respect to inequity as most asian countries as very homogenous. Hence, she would look like everyone else to an extent. And, the ability to align with the majoritarian culture does often lead to better performance on 'standardized tests'. Not to detract from your mother's hard work, but asians, including myself (Multiracial), do not feel there pressure as much from the majority here in the US precisely because we are often labled the model minority. And, southeast asians do get a boost at many schools.</p>

<p>Perhaps that is why you believe that AA is racist. By definition, you'd have to have power to be racist. And, URM usually do not. The historic and structural discrimination that continues is evidence that racism has still not been dealt with.</p>

<p>BTW, where are you from? Usually, asians are 'better' integrated on either coast?</p>

<p>As for poverty, the effects are not consistent because skin tone differences (as well as physical characteristics) can be seen in some URMs versus non-URMs. So lower-income non-URMs benefit sometimes from their larger group affiliation, while URMs do not unless they blend.</p>

<p>Just an opinion.
IB</p>

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<p>I just skimmed through 20 pages.</p>

<p>Everyone is making valid points, but it just goes to show that with every point you try to make there is some sort of loop hole. I know for a fact that many URM in my school are apt to get wonderful recs from certain teachers who will really bother in their case. It's really sort of shady to pull examples from my school, because despite being a public school, it deviates from usual NYC public school norms. Basically, if you want a summary of my school and are somewhat familar w/ the NYC public school system, think Stuy and Bronx Science, subtract the science factor and add the Humanities.</p>

<p>I know I'm not going to be a candidate that will benefit from AA, given that I plan to apply to the ivies, LAC, and other tier one institutions, the fact that I am female, Asian, and I live in NYC. </p>

<p>Just out of curiousity, a few of you kept mentioning that Southeast Asians benefit from AA. In what sense, given my mother is from a southeast asian country, but theoretically both my mother and I are Chinese.</p>

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<p>Willact:</p>

<p>If you were Thai, fillipino, etc...that would put you in the URM category.</p>

<p>As for schools, I'd look for ones with more male students (i.e. CMU, CWRU), schools that are away from the east coast (even if they have more women sometimes) except CA (i.e. Grinnell, Davidson, Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, Colorado College, Kenyon), or great all-women's colleges (i.e. Mt. Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, Agnes Scott, Scripps, Mills, Wellesley).</p>

<p>Some of the all-womens schools are a part of a larger coed college community like Mt. Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, and Scripps.</p>

<p>Just an opinion.
IB</p>

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<p>What does URM stand for?</p>

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<p>zUnder represented Minority</p>

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<p>and yes, i forgot, if u think AA is bad, come to India
YThey want to raise reservation for Backward caste's to 49.5%.. beat that.. and unlike the US where the 1st gen business is considered, anyone, be it a millionaitres son can get in with a Backward class certificate... im su8re those can be purchesed for cheap too....</p>

<p>All the students are protesting, see this... its a million times worse than AA</p>

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<p>IsleBoy</p>

<p>SATs to a certain degree do measure intelligence. ANd for me, it completely did because I never studied for it. I clearly stated it was a measure of both innate abilities and hard work for most people though, because I guess some people do study for it.</p>

<p>Regarding my mother, she is Taiwanese, hence NOT an under represented Southeast Asian, which means she didn't get help and I am not URM. I don't understand your relation with my SAT scores and her ability to graduate from college in America despite not speaking English well at all. (Imagine taking a biology course without speaking English well, yeah not very nice at all.)</p>

<p>My SAT scores have nothing to do with her...</p>

<p>I still fail to see how being a more accepted Asian gives someone the power to be racist.The standards for entrance for the "model minority" are even higher than those of pure Caucasians because of the standards these Asians set themselves. So basically, these "model" Asians should purposely start failing in order to receive help from such institutions? Is that really it?</p>

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<p>Anyway, I lived in Colorado for a while(12 years), and then California.To be more specific I was born in California and lived in CA until I was 5, lived in Colorado for 12 years, and then came to college in California. My parents live in separate states. Colorado is mainly white by the way...but I think it's less "racist" than California is, and as bad as it sounds, I was more comfortable in that environment because people didn't think/talk about race as much as they do here.</p>

<p>After I came to Berkeley, I've realized how much social/racial segregation takes place, and I've never been as conscious about race as I have been after attending university in California. It's pretty racist. Just because it's more diverse doesn't mean it's less racist.</p>

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<p>well, just come to India first... i swear u will die seeing the reservation here. Some state colleges in TamilNadu have 69% reservation. Beat that.... im happy to be leaving the college scenario here</p>

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<p>what do you mean when you say Berkeley is pretty racist, NeedAdvice?</p>

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<p>Need:</p>

<p>The model minority is a myth because not asian sub-groups (i.e. Southeast Asian) score lower on tests and tend to come from less affluent homes. As for your mother, if she was raised in another country, which is predominently asian, she would have been in the MAJORITY. Her formative years, then, would have been much like the non-URMs in the US. So, it is no surprise that she did well in college.</p>

<p>As for SAT scores, almost all of my friends in HS prepared for it. Most scored between 2100 and 2350, with a few outlyers. The SAT is biased to an extent because it tests cultural norms, of which more affluent asians (i.e. Japanese/Chinese/Korean) have had experience with either as a majority or as an adopter of American norms. For instance, the 442nd during WWII wanted to prove their Americaness by fighting for the US, while many of their parents changed their names to 'American' sounding ones so that they would not stand out.</p>

<p>As for the model minority myth....there are asians who do not excel in math, are not too science-y, do not play a violin or the piano, etc. The problem is that some non-URMs think that is was being Asian is. Personally, I don't believe the model minority myth, or else Hawaii would have the highest SAT scores in the nation. But, they don't. Try somewhere in the bottom 10 states. BTW, Minnesota and Iowa tend to have the highest scores, and they have fewer asians than many other states as a percentage.</p>

<p>The reason Colorado may have been more comfortable is that you may have wanted to blend in rather than be noticed for being different. In CA, it could be called self-hatred of your culture--and thus, more of an issue. Perhaps, like some of my cousins, upseting the status quo is uncomfortable because they would be seen as agitators. And, they would not want to be seen as the bad ones. I'm not sure that Chinese culture is the same way, but Japanese culture practically demands that you don't rock the boat. If you do decide to be 'different' or question authority, it reflects badly on your parents.</p>

<p>Just an opinion.
IB</p>

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<p>Isle: I said my mother completed two college degrees. Hence one in her home country and another in America. She is not the majority in America, now is she? She still did well in college in America, even in biology courses which required an expansive English vocabulary because she worked damned hard. </p>

<p>The reason Colorado is more comfortable for me is because NOBODY made race an issue, not like it is in California. Nobody talked about race, or people just joked about. I had friends of all races. There was hardly any segregation. This constant mention of race, race, race all the time naturally segregates people. It's just race wasn't an issue like it is here, and I frankly don't see why people keep bringing it up all the time in California. It's pointless and useless. Sticking with the topic of this thread, Affirmative Action merely reinforces segregation.</p>

<p>Call my comfort in CO what you will. I was born in America, I'm half Caucasian, and I was never raised to devote myself to understanding the Asian culture because my mother isn't religious and she doesn't really hold traditional Asian values. (And what exactly are these values?)</p>

<p>Do you see my point though? You call it "self-hatred." We, and others NOT from California call it "being American." It just bugs me that despite the fact you are born here, raised as an American with American values, people believe that this is "self-hatred." But you're right. I might start hating myself because people expect me to basically worship every ethnicity I am to have some shallow pride. This is the only reason I'd hate myself: because people keep expecting me to do stuff that I think is unimportant and pointless just because I'm a minority.</p>

<p>Americans are Americans. If you are born and raised here, you are an American. People who are genetically not Caucasian yet who were born and raised here are American and shall do as they please and if they want to only hold American values, they have a right to. It's as simple as that, nothing more.</p>

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<p>DRab: They have race-themed floors; race-themed student groups; everyone hangs out solely with their own race; frats that aren't specifically racial, but you know they are; frats that you can get into if you're of a particular ethnicity, etc. I know a friend's parent who basically wanted him to apply to Asian-themed floors because he's Asian. She said it'd make him feel more "comfortable" to be only around Asians. Yeah, he was born in America.</p>

<p>All of it just gets a bit nauseating after a while.</p>