<p>yeah alright but you have to understand that Im sure the people who actually TRY to get good scores DO not the people who dont care.</p>
<p>But perhaps, the atmosphere in which one grows up is a large factor in the decisions that one ake later on in life. Someone in a low income neighborhood probably wouldn't know the benefits of applying early to colleges, because he/she doesn't have someone to tell him "Your chances are better", etc etc etc. I for one can appreciate my wealth and know that others were not born as lucky and therefore I've had many MANY opportunities that they haven't.</p>
<p>Much of the AA debate revolves around the notion of entitlement, that certain people "deserve" admission to certain schools. However, I think the whole notion of certain students being deserving is bogus.</p>
<p>So many factors- whether your parents push you to work hard, whether you have good teachers, whether your peer group is supporting, whether you are innately intelligent- are completely beyond your control. Even this notion working hard is outside your control to an extent; some people can focus and handle pressure better. In that light, there is really no such thing as a more "deserving" student, or if there is, there is no way to tell from an application.</p>
<p>Therefore, college admissions should not be viewed as a way to reward the deserving. It is a way to put everyone in the right place for the betterment of society. And I would argue that society is most improved by taking steps to put more minorities and lower income students through the best schools.</p>
<p>Besides that, college admission is not a trophy for any individual. It is a decision a private institution makes about who it wants on its campus. A plumber can't file a lawsuit because someone with a leaky faucet decides to hire a "less deserving" plumber. It is insolent for anyone- students, parents, or the government- to tell a college what to do.</p>
<p>All of us rich, accomplished, high-scoring white kids need to get off our high horse and realize the ivory tower doesn't owe us a damn thing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
All of us rich, accomplished, high-scoring white kids need to get off our high horse and realize the ivory tower doesn't owe us a damn thing.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Go liberal guilt!</p>
<p>In reality: we don't owe those "below" us anything, either.</p>
<p>...and we certainly don't owe those next us (sometimes above us) in the ebony tower anything.</p>
<p>Well, Maiz&Blue, seeing as the colleges dont belong to you in the first place, it doesnt matter what you owe anybody-college admissions is as much a gift to you as anyone else.</p>
<p>Ah, but Maize&Blue, such is the "white man's burden".
Wouldn't you say?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, Maiz&Blue, seeing as the colleges dont belong to you in the first place, it doesnt matter what you owe anybody-college admissions is as much a gift to you as anyone else
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Besides that, college admission is not a trophy for any individual. It is a decision a private institution makes about who it wants on its campus. A plumber can't file a lawsuit because someone with a leaky faucet decides to hire a "less deserving" plumber. It is insolent for anyone- students, parents, or the government- to tell a college what to do.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The lunch counters in Alabama circa 1955 were just as private and the owners wanted to do the same thing. Was that ok? </p>
<p>...so it's ok for people to pick blacks over whites due to skin color but not vice versa?</p>
<p>^^ You're a class act, my friend.</p>
<p>Yes, as we all know, those who can sling personal attacks and talk about entire races as if they were a single homogenious entity are the classiest individuals in the world.</p>
<p>Excuse me if I beleive that people should not "be judged by the color of their skin."</p>
<p>What, exactly, does racial AA do again?</p>
<p>Either way, I'd appreciate it if you didn't resort to namecalling.</p>
<p>ok im reallly confused..to me it seems that feuler is against AA yet i dont get that last part about the ivory tower (sarcasm?).</p>
<p>I dont know, I think that my argument for economic affirmative action is pretty indisputable.</p>
<p>You're comparing racial preferences to diversify college campuses to decades of segregation? Get a grip! This is embarassing...</p>
<p>As a side note, there aren't that many minorities at Umich are there?</p>
<p>
[quote]
As a side note, there aren't that many minorities at Umich are there?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>They take as many as they possibly can - literally. Hence the highest minority dropout rate in the country.</p>
<p>Feuler was making an argument for AA.</p>
<p>"Hence the highest minority dropout rate in the country."
Maybe the atmosphere has a little something to do with it as well. Just a thought ;)</p>
<p>...maybe, maybe it's an unsupporting atmosphere</p>
<p>...or maybe it's the fact that (by and large- I'm actually working on my next paper with a brilliant black student) the aa admit black students have average ACT's 7-9 points lower, average SAT's several 100 points lower, and lower average HS gpa's in (on average) much easier classes. When we drive into inner city detroit schools and promise 12th graders they can become doctors we would do well to make sure the kids have a working knowledge of 8th grade algebra (many don't) so they don't fail introductory chemistry (minority failure rate bordering on 35%) before they're accepted into a national university.</p>
<p>...or maybe it's that unsupporting environment.</p>
<p>Ignore any good white elephants today?</p>
<p>Yes, I agree - knowing algebra or proper English is overrated. Especially for students entering a top 25 school.</p>
<p>Anyone who says otherwise is a filthy, filthy racist.</p>
<p>I admit defeat.</p>
<p>No, that last sentence was not sarcastic. I am in favor of affirmative action. Maybe I didn't make that clear.</p>
<p>Maize&Blue22, your comment about the lunch counters is a very good point. I don't have a good rebuttal yet, but I'll think about it and post again if I can think of something and refine it until it is plausible.</p>
<p>As for "liberal guilt," my last sentence was not meant to inspire guilt; I did not mean to say we should feel guilty for having our advantages, only that we should not feel disenfranchised to lose them. Nonetheless, I hate liberal guilt as much as the next guy, and Maize&Blue22 has another good point.</p>
<p>"Either way, I'd appreciate it if you didn't resort to namecalling."</p>
<p>I second that. It's funny how liberals (myself included ) try to say that theirs is the faction of "reason," and yet they tend to be much less civil in debate, and often resort to a lot more namecalling.</p>
<p>What about the fact that the percentage of black college graduates has more than quadrupled in the past few years? Does that have no standing for you? Not to mention statistics for Hispanics, Native Americans, etc...</p>
<p>Hey, remember when this was a survey?</p>