Affirmative Action

Applying to College
41

<p>In 1994, the Branson Courier posted an editorial proposing affirmative action based on new grounds: beauty. </p>

<p>"Dates Instead of Tests: A New Proposition"
By Jacob Hernandez</p>

<p>"Criteria for "merit points" would be based on the quality of one's complexion [... and] since gorgeous students don't clutter the campuses of Harvard [... they] should balance the scales."</p>

<p>The article went on to say that good-looking applicants had been discriminated against based on skin. They cited examples of high school teachers flirting with female students and of the students finding it very difficult to maintain good grades while "coping with the accusation that they only got an A+ because the teacher thought they were hot." </p>

<p>"Such students have been placed in a situation where society looks down upon their education," continued the author. He claimed that lower SAT scores should be discounted because of such prejudice, and that these students would bring new culture to the campus. </p>

<p>"People magazine reported that "more than 70%" or women who had been "hit on" had considered themselves "moderate-good looking." These young women could bring a new "hot" culture to campus because they have more tested social skills."</p>

<p>The article, obviously, is parody, but as a 2nd generation Mexican American, I find it insulting that anyone would think our race needs help. Hernandez is correct: people tend to think systems of color judgment are poor indicators of ability. </p>

<p>I know many of my peers aren't hard working. I see it on a daily basis. Mexican Americans are do not have lower college populations because they have been deprived. They simply do not enforce the mentality of working hard in academics.</p>

<p>I got a 1580 SAT and was my class valedictorian. I was a two time all state violist, and a vice president of LET (Latino Engineers of Tomorrow). I also participated in numerous drama events, and was selected as my class's "Most Friendly" position. </p>

<p>I will also be attending Yale University in the fall. I do not want to have this baggage of affirmative action dragging behind me. I am Hispanic and am proud of that. But I can bring the college more than my ethnicity. My brother, who is three years older than me, attended Rice University with SAT scores of 1380. He had a few community service activities, but nothing much else. I do not want to be considered a Hispanic walk in. My brother walked in, but I broke in, and I want to make sure our system adjusts so that hard working people can get their due.</p>

42

<p>Too all: It's not like I'm saying that since you're Mexican (I am), that you're automatically going to be admitted to the Ivies...you still have to be up to par with Ivy-type work, and Ivy-like scores.</p>

43

<p>URM's that see AA as just a crutch and "they just admitted me because I'm Hispanic/African-American/Native American" are so off. AA help qualified URM's to not be descriminated an give them a better chance at elite American schools. My cousin just graduated from the University of Pennsylvania on a full scholarship on merit. She just got into Yale and Harvard Law both on full scholarship on merit. She may or may not have needed AA but it has made a firm ground for the past 30+ years for URMs to have an equal chance at better institutions of higher education.</p>

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<p>Not to be mean, but I have no idea what your cousin was like. I can't automatically say that she was smart, because many African Americans and Hispanics get EVEN that far if they aren't smart. I don't know if your sister is the same as me. Even on the Yale Regular Action Stats thread, people only think I got in because I was hispanic.</p>

45

<p>People will always think even if AA disappears that URMs get into elite colleges and universities because they are URMs. So...</p>

46

<p>Sorry, but that's a lame reason to perpetuate AA.</p>

47

<p>Well its being perpetuated so you can b**** and m*** all you want but it won't change a thing until the colleges (keyword COLLEGES, not ****ed white and asian people) feel it should end.</p>

48

<p>The sense of entitlement coming from opponents of AA in this thread is frankly a little sickening. Yeah, that's right, you won't get into Harvard because some "inferior minority" took "your spot" and you'll have to go to NYU or something and be homeless for the rest of your life, uh-huh. </p>

<p>A study showed recently that people that were accepted (or had the stats to be accepted) to elite colleges but didn't go measured the same on a number of ratings (like income) later on in life as people that attended the elite schools.</p>

49

<p>Thank you antisthenes,
You and glucose are the most intelligent people on this thread.</p>

50

<p>AA is a racist policy, it presumes URMs are dumb, and must therefore be given help.</p>

51

<p>glenn1989, it gives URMs a chance against racism and discrimination, and what you just said was ignorant. If you really think that your simply a dumb***.</p>

52

<p>Let's try to remain respectful, esa; cussing and calling names does nothing for your credibility.</p>

<p>antisthenes: you make good points but, as I've said before, I do not oppose AA because it effects me drastically (in a negative way). AA still benefits Asians. It's the <em>principle</em> of it that really irks me - if I may quote glenn1989, "AA is a racist policy." Can you truly say that it is right for someone who is black who has received a private school education K-12 to receive the benefits of AA, when a lower-class white student who <em>hasn't</em> received these opportunities won't?</p>

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<p>The sad thing is, when people use the racism argument, they still assume that any minority that got into an elite school got in because of AA--which is racist in itself. What's more, if the Ivies got together and decided secretly not to use AA anymore, people would still make the assumption. </p>

<p>A college admissions officer has so much more feeling than you for what any given student can bring to the college. Surely you're not going to argue that a student who went to a school in urban Milwaukee with the roof leaking, the windows broken, and the teachers paid $20k a year got the same educational opportunities as young Mr. G. Edwin Prescott III of Massachusetts with his private school, private tutors, and country club membership? The class situation in America right now, unfortunately, is that student 1 is disproportionately more likely than student 2 to be black or Hispanic (personally, I feel AA should be class-based; but race-based appears to be the next best thing). A good admissions officer (which is probably not all of them, admittedly) can tell a promising student, even if it's student 1, from a lazy, uncurious student, even if it's student 2. Now, I believe that the distribution of traits such as intellectualism and dedication to academics is also very much class-determined, but if even a few student 1s manage to get into an Ivy, I think that is progress.</p>

<p>Lastly, the elite schools are all private. It's called capitalism. Go on! Vote with your wallet! Who needs those race-preference pinkos?</p>

54

<p>I think proponents of AA must concede the fact that AA needs to be revised in order to take into account situations like those illustrated by topper, but it is still needed in order to aid those who are not as fortunate as a wealthy minority. </p>

<p>Secondly, AA was not brought about to provide reparations or to help URM's because they are dumb as glenn1989 put it, AA was brought about because there were laws only 40 years ago that stifled the educational opportunities for minorities. </p>

<p>Finally, to the people that say AA casts a shadow of doubt over the accomplishments of minorities, why don't YOU stop presuming they only got to where they are because of AA and try to get to know the person? The problem lies with the people that prejudge.</p>

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<p>umm...all i have to say is that each student/ family is different. not everyone has the same financial/educational/ethnical situations. its very unfair to say that someone with lower stats will get in somewhere as presitgious as Harvard,Yale,Brown,etc, just because of his ethnic background. quite frankly, in my opinon it has more to do with each school's acceptance process and whether the chair of admissions wants to accept more minorities over whites or vice versa. times change, and so do the thought process of many institutions. its all luck...and knowing how to play your cards right.</p>

56

<p>Vicks, I agree totally with you. I am for class-based affirmative action, but I think race-based is necessary in a way; here's an illustration.</p>

<p>Fun with numbers that I've made up off the top of my head:
Let's say the US population is 300 million; 100 million blacks and Hispanics.
If 30% of blacks and Hispanics are disadvantaged, while only 20% of whites are (quite a large statistical difference), then that comes to 30 million blacks vs. 40 million whites--as a result, whites still end up overrepresented. This is pretty much the argument the Ivies were making.</p>

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<p>Think about who applies to colleges? RICH Blacks, RICH Latinos...VERY FEW of the poverty-stricken seemingly ideal "work-my-way-up" kids actually get to apply to college. In my neighborhood, there are class lines, and I have had the opportunity to befriend Hispanic kids on both sides of it (I am on the wealthier side).</p>

<p>The poor Latinos said that although Harvard offered financial aid, parents thought that it was still expensive because of the whole stereotype. POOR kids were the ones who were being hurt by the idea of "crossing sides" to the rich man's territory.</p>

<p>AA is not letting in the so-called poor minorities. It is letting in lazy rich minorities and making hard working Latinos and Blacks look bad.</p>

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<p>Sorry, I think I prefer a campus with a fair number of "lazy rich minorities" than a lily-white one with none or very few minorities in general.</p>

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<p>That's a broad generalization to say that only RICH Blacks and RICH Latinos apply to college. In fact it's completely off base. Secondly, you just stated a case for AA. AA allows hardworking but poorer kids with uneducated parents the opportunity to attend some of the finest institutions in America. Education is the bridge between wealth and poverty and the more educated URM's become the more their financial situations will be ameliorated. Not to mention they will be prepared to help in the education of their offspring, which is something that some parents of URM's can't do because of the horrible laws that plagued this country only 40 years ago.</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3518560"&gt;http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3518560&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Read that. It's pretty frightening, and it really drives home the point that high quality education for all races and classes is absolutely vital.</p>