any ideas for motivating high school sophomore?

Parents Forum
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<p>The schools in my area will perform an educational evaluation if there has been a consistent, obvious problem in classroom performance or if the parents can document a good reason to request classification for special services eligibility. At least around here, the process takes a few months but does not cost anything. The team doing the evaluation consists of a school psychologist, a guidance counselor, a teacher and a social worker.</p>

<p>You also have the option of paying a private psychologist / learning consultant to do the same thing. It generally gets done much quicker that way (usually a week or two at most) but can cost a few thousand dollars.</p>

42

<p>Garland: I wasn't clear in my statement. The mere number of female teachers isn't the reason for feminization of schools. You are right that there were many female teachers when we were in school, yet schools weren't feminized like they are today. It has more to do with a focus on emotion and less on truth. We see feminization in our churches even though there are more male clergy (or in my church...all male (yet feminization has managed to have taken place).</p>

<p>And yes, it is predominantly female teachers (not most female teachers) that assign touchy feely assignments or ask touchy feely questions.... </p>

<p>Case in point: after having 2 male religion teachers that taught solid theology and asked solid questions, my son now has a female teacher that asks stupid questions like: If Jesus was a flower, what would his scent be? and If Isaiah came back to earth, what would he be wearing? and If the prophet Ezekiel came to earth, what would he say about our landfills? If Jesus were a food, what would he be? Bread...duh..........
Oh please..........</p>

43

<p>It goes without saying that although our schools have imho for sure been "feminized", corporate America seems much more masculine to me after 25+ years in large and small companies. Despite all the female MBA's, despite flex time and parental leave and dad's leaving early to attend a teacher's conference and all that jazz.... many of your kids who haven't found a comfort zone in school may take off like a rocket once they're grown and in the work force.</p>

<p>We actually have to coach employees that 'this isn't Mrs. Riley's class in fourth grade where neatness counts-- just get it done!" or "nobody is giving you extra credit for making a pretty cover or binder... you're getting evaluated on results". For some people it's a tough transition. I see entire departments in our company of people who'd be happier making igloos out of sugar cubes and using their glue guns than running spreadsheets and making decisions!</p>

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<p>Blossom: LOL That is soooooo true.....</p>

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<p>I find this thread really fascinating and especially enjoyed Kat's post. But I'm really intrigued by this "feminization" of schools theory, which I've never heard before. jlauer, could you elaborate on that? How do the assignments by female teachers differ from those of male teachers? And the theology teacher your son has now...I assume that's being taught in a high school somewhere or is this in a church? The questions you cited by the female teacher--did you make that up--just an exaggeration--or is that really true? If true, I'm just floored. If that's a high school, I think I'd move him someplace else. And what about the "feminization" of churches. Could you give an example? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm really interested in this. Never heard of it before.</p>

46

<p>Not knowing the young man, I would hesitate to offer advice, even though I have lived through this with 2 of my 3 kids -- with very positive results in one case and disastrous results in the other. And both of these kids followed behind an older sibling who sailed through high school and a very prestigious college with little encouragement from us. So it's not like there was no precedent for rolling up your sleeves and having at it. </p>

<p>Things started to go south with our second son at the end of his freshman year but we weren't aware of it until the report came after school let out. We swooped in with various encouragements, tips on organization, some half-baked notions of maintaining some sort of homework routine, tutors, etc....and when that didn't work we escalated into bribery and warnings, threats and consequences, and the more enmeshed we became in his academic life, the more irresponsible, resistant and clandestine he became. Long story short, he ended up on antidepressants and we ended up with much bigger problems than academic underachievement.</p>

<p>It can be very difficult, especially with teenagers and especially with teenage boys, to get to the bottom of what is causing them to underperform. In general, and I hate to say this but it's true, teenagers and boys especially, do not respond as well as we'd like to 50 minutes once a week in a therapist's office. It's worth a try, but if they are bright kids, they can say all the right things to ensure that the therapist does not get to the places where the kid doesn't want to go. It can work with some kids, so it's always a good place to start. It didn't work with ours. Three weeks in a wilderness program worked better for him, but we were way past the "he could be doing better in school" stage. I also have some reservations about sending a kid to counseling for academic underachievement, as it can easily be misinterpreted by the kid as "there is something wrong with me" which is not something they need, at that age especially.</p>

<p>Our third child was a success story simply because she is a completely different person and her issues were completely different. For her, a change of schools from the public school to a demanding but flexible and supportive private school was all she needed. Her love of learning returned and we had our daughter back. </p>

<p>Our son's issues were not so easily solved and they still have not been solved, although he is plugging away in college, after taking a post-graduate high school year at a local private high school to clean up his academic record so he could go to a good 4-year-college. And our family experienced a redefinition of what a "good 4-year-college" was along the way. </p>

<p>Ending where I started -- not know the young man in question -- I think it's important to try to figure out if a student really needs help or if what he needs is time and space to grow up. </p>

<p>We all remember the height and weight chart at the pediatrician's office where you could see where your child fell along the curves -- 50th percentile, 95th percentile... they grow physically at their own rate and they grow mentally, emotionally and academically at their own rate. It's hard to predict if that 4'6" 8th grader is ever going to grow to 6', but since there's nothing we can do about it, we don't do anything. It's also hard to predict if the kid who is happy with B's and C's is going to grow into a kid who works for A's some day. Ah, but that is something we can do something about, right? But should we? Each family has to answer that question individually for each child on a case-by-case basis. </p>

<p>The one thing we don't want to do is make a child feel like he or she is a disappointment, a failure, or a problem when all they are doing is being themselves. But if they are not being themselves, if something is going on, I do think we owe it to them to try to figure it out and not just shrug our shoulders and say, "oh well." </p>

<p>We learned a lot as we went through the therapeutic process that was necessary to undo the damage we did to our middle child by "laying down the law" on academics sophomore year. We learned that he is the kind of person that everyone wants at their party -- and that he will be late and he'll forget that he was supposed to bring the dip, but he will add life to the party and make people laugh and feel good and people will enjoy their evening because he was there. We learned to appreciate the good things and became more comfortable with the concept of "good enough."</p>

<p>What he learned as he went through the therapeutic process -- was that avoiding doing the things that are unpleasant, or tedious or difficult leads to less than satisfactory results (but he must be the one to define "satisfactory"), which makes him feel bad about himself which, in turn, makes him further avoid doing the things that are unpleasant, or tedious or difficult. And a vicious cycle ensues. He learned to recognize the signs within himself that he was edging toward that vicious cycle and to force himself to have at it to break it or avoid it altogether. He's not 100% successful at this even now, 6 years later, but he's doing it. His grades are not what we'd have wanted 6 years ago, but the difference is that we no longer view a 3.0 as a problem.</p>

<p>Sorry this is so long...it was a long, agonizing process and we brought much of it on ourselves by making such a big deal out of grades. </p>

<p>I'm sure everyone has read this before, but it's always worth an annual review: A Parent's Apology, <a href="http://www.nido.cl/parent&students/HighSchool/counseling/My_story.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nido.cl/parent&students/HighSchool/counseling/My_story.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Jack: I did not make up those questions. They are REAL. When my son has to anwer questions like these, we all sit around and laugh and make us silly answers and then he writes what she would like to hear and gets an A!!! lololol </p>

<p>But the bottom line is that he isn't learning anything from such religion-lite lessons. This is at a Catholic Prep school. Freshman year, son had a male relgion teacher - excellent; Soph year, had a priest - VERY excellent and will be a future bishop; Junior year, son has this "touchy feely" female teacher -- and the retreats that she plans are just as silly -- sitting in a circle at two in the morning and having to say something "nice" about each classmate (A total waste of time but she thinks is sooooooo important!) Frankly, the rest of his teachers are fine/excellent so we won't change.</p>

<p>To others: No, I don't think most female teachers are "touchy feely". My son has and has had many excellent female teachers.</p>

48

<p>jack: The femization of churches has been explored and written about in great detail. It has to do with songs, sermons, etc, that turn men off to church... which is why many churches have a disproportionate number of women in attendance. It also has to do with "not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings" by saying that some behavior is wrong (like adultery or whatever). The newer songs/hymns are sometimes too silly and/or high pitched and men won't sing along. The combined effect is that men are turned off and no longer want to attend/belong.</p>

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<p>jack: I need to add to above: It also has to do with churches no longer being about finding "truth" (which men want -- men want truth) and more about being not much more than a social club. Fellowship is great but if "truth" isn't there, there is no foundation and little attraction for men.</p>

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<p>jlauer95: Thanks for the clarification. I should have assumed this was a church-related school. But still... wow. A little scary. I still don't quite understand your theory about the feminization of schools and churches. Is this what you mean, that the approach to learning/teaching is in this "touchy-feely" way, rather than simply straightforward teaching? I think we experienced that in elementary schools (more so in private elementary school, not public), but never experienced it once we moved to strong public magnet schools. What we mostly experienced (in the early grades) was how everything had to be about self-esteem. Seemed like ribbons and awards--whatever--were constantly being given out to boost self-esteem. Even if a kid couldn't read, as long as his or her self-esteem was intact, the teachers figured they had done their job. Again, we got away from that with very strong inner-city magnet schools. But is that sort of thing part of what you mean by "feminization?" Sorry this is getting away (somewhat) from the OP's original post, but I'm really curious about this. Thanks.</p>

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<p>Okay..my last post crossed with yours. Thanks again for the clarification. Interesting. I've never read anything about this. Of course, I don't go to church, either :)</p>

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<p>Junebug: As the mom of two boys, I find that I get the most info out of them about their feelings is when I take them out (one at a time) to lunch (his favorite restaurant) and let the subject that I want to address just casually come up sometime during lunch. Since I often take each boy out to lunch alone (just him and me), not every such lunch has an agenda. However, at each lunch I learn something new about each son -- what they fear, what is bothering them, what they need advice about, who is annoying them at school, etc.<br>
(I got this idea from my dad who took me out for dinner and a movie (Mary Poppins) when I was little (40+ years ago) and I still remember how special I felt -- just my dad and me (and I came from a family of 7 kids!)</p>

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<p><< Of course, I don't go to church, either >>></p>

<p>LOL maybe because of the feminization. LOL</p>

<p>And yes, about all the ribbons and awards. That is feminization. The idea that "no one's feelings should ever get hurt" and "no naughty kid should EVER be made to feel embarrassed by his/her behavior" and "We don't emphasize honor rolls because we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings"</p>

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<p>jlauer95: Ah, yes (to your post #53). VERY familiar with this concept, just never knew it had a name. (Gotta be a better name for that, by the way.) As I said, we had the benefit of truly outstanding public magnet schools here, particularly our high school, and I can't tell you how thrilled we were to get away from all of what you just described above. Thanks again.</p>

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<p>1Down - Heartfelt appreciation of your honesty from this corner.</p>

56

<p>
[quote]
songman writes: He has a chance to reach the absolute top at UMASS yet he has not joined any clubs,or the school newspaper (he is a writer), or any EC's for that matter. He also refused to speak to anyone in the guidance office of the honors program. (extreme introvert) We would be happy if we saw half of the drive of the kids that "get it" It is frustrating for us but also for him.

[/quote]
Something about this post really struck a chord in me, because I know someone who followed a similar path with unfortunately an unhappy outcome. You can't change your S into someone different, but perhaps you can help/challenge him to do better. Is counseling out of the question? </p>

<p>Also, ask him a few questions. Does he think inside that if he floats along and just graduates that everything is going to be ok? I suspect he harbors this belief, and that the "extra" effort will be a lot of pain for him as an introvert with little gain. Also, and while this may be painful its worth delving into, exactly how many friends does he have and how good of friends are they? Is he going over to their place regularly, they're calling him a few times a week,etc? Or is it a far less strong bond? For some reason I've seen people with a fear of change and the unknown stick it out in a situation where they're basically alone and have no real social bonds, exactly the situation where you'd think cut-and-run would have few drawbacks.</p>

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<p>I don't know how much we as parents have on influencing motivation. I had always believed that my son would do his best and rise to our expectations and that was pretty much true until his (not good) Junior year. A combination of very tough classes, hard grading teachers, closest friends off to college, and an addictive computer game all added up to a big drop in grades when they counted the most. We tried everything - restricting computer time, visiting colleges, meeting with the teachers all together, nagging, threatening and bribing.</p>

<p>His older sister, otoh, had very similar standardized scores and had taken almost the same classes and did well in her Junior year, we had assumed that her brother would do well too. I think she was just more motivated and realized that she would have to work harder, where her brother thought that he was working as hard as he could (I studied like this last year and it worked, and I'm not going to change my study habits just because the teachers not grading right!) and let the chips fall where they may.</p>

<p>I just don't think we can change our kids expectations of themselves and after awhile you have to let them fail or succeed on their own. The most frustrating thing is knowing that your child can work harder but doesn't choose to.</p>

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<p>Junebug: for your sophomore son, I wouldn't necessarily push hard as much as state the facts, so to speak. Let him know that poorer grades will result in less choice about what his path will be when he graduates hs. (And this is a path that HE will need to choose and and put into action) If his gpa is not strong, he will have limited options to consider.</p>

<p>At sophomore yr., he may not believe that he really wants to go to college...he is slogging away at hs and who wants to contemplate 6 more years of classes, reports, tests, projects, etc. when he really isn't motivated.
Let him understand that college is not an absolute given...the only students who go should be ones who want to be there. He can always plan to get a job, or go to a Comm. College part-time. But let him know that when hs graduation hits, he will have to have a plan to do SOMETHING afterwards.
Maybe when he realizes that HE is the one who needs to make the plan, i.e HE will be getting a job, or HE will be going to college or vocational school, NOT you - he will work harder to have more options to chose from in 2 years.</p>

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<p>Junebug: Have you been able to discern what his interests are? What career or "career area" might interest him? The reason that I keep going back to this is because once a person embraces a goal, he will generally accept that he has to do the steps to get there. I don't think that just telling him that poor grades will result in fewer choices will "move him" as much as helping him find a goal to embrace.</p>

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<p>Mikemac said:Also, and while this may be painful its worth delving into, exactly how many friends does he have and how good of friends are they?</p>

<p>He has about 10 friends of which 5 are solid friends ...they call him except he won't call them. Only if they go on AIM or e-mail- his entire form of communication is the computer- if they are not on AIM then he is alone for the night...weird huh?- he cannot make a phone call and is embarrased to do so- so there is a problem here with confrontation or communicating with strangers. He has gone for counseling (Professional psych but I am afraid he was too smart and came up with the appropriate answers that led the counselor astray- the counselor's analysis was that our S was intellectually mature but socially immature. And for that we paid $1200.00 HA! The friends are very similar to him and only a few will communicate with us "hello Mr. Songman, how are you-?" type of commucinaction is all we get....the rest are shy also and won't look us in the eye..- so Birds of a feather flock together huh?</p>

<p>But this is Junebug's post and she needs help with her son......I wish I could offer some advice Junebug all I can do is tell you our story and hope it turns out more positive for your son......and tell all parents not to allow video games in your home if your son is an introvert. The intorverts apparently become addicted to the games. By the way all of the boys that are very athletic (friend's kids) that also own video games- not one is exhibiting introverted behavior...maybe the sports activities take time away from the video games?</p>