Thanks. We wanted to tour Rochester last year and a local friend said “I just can’t see him there” - so we didn’t. We probably should have. I didn’t realize they were that flexible. The website didn’t make it seem that way. I’ll have to take another look and once this round is over we’ll tour if needed.
"If he takes ANY classes at ANY college after he has graduated from HS, He CAN’T apply again to colleges as a Freshman- he can only apply as a transfer student! "
Assuming this is correct, could he not still self-study for AP exams and take the AP exams after graduating from HS?? And submit those scores and get placement credit for them vs. distribution requirements from his eventual college? (even if they don’t reduce total # credits to graduate).
Or would the college ignore them, because the tests were taken after HS? Even though they demonstrated the same mastery of the material before arriving at the college as they would have if they were taken in HS?
Another question that occurred to me is what about if OP takes community college courses the summer before starting at his “real” college, after he already got accepted, as a freshman not as a transfer student, at his “real college”? One of my kids (the same one) actually did this. The “real” college didn’t give credit for those courses, but that may have been because the kid was way past the max limit already anyway. And in that case they weren’t needed to fill a distribution requirement, so I dont know what would have happened if they were, and we pushed it. The courses were successfully counted as prerequisites to enable enrollment into more advanced level courses though.
We’re keeping the self-study AP testing option in mind for a gap year piece. I think that still works, if needed. I don’t think there’s any issue with taking classes once you’ve been accepted (like those summer courses). It seems that taking courses while claiming a gap year prior to applying complicates things. You need to check the rules for individual schools. He’s already taken eight college courses, so whether he gets credit for them (or any others) isn’t really the point. They’re just part of what he’s been doing over the years. Appropriate placement matters much more than credit. He doesn’t need to be a transfer student. It’s too limiting.
I just went back to the u of rochester site to make sure I was remembering things correctly - they have a cluster search engine where the student can search a topic they are interested, for your son I put in math, and it will search what math oriented classes they have in social ciences or humanities ie something like game theory in politics. For humanities I searched for computer and it spit out classes like digital art. This kind of approach may be helpful for your son no matter which school he ends up at.
Actually, those andi threads linked from #31 indicate a student who applied with no safeties the first time, got shut out, took a gap year, then made the same mistake of applying to no safeties the second time, but got lucky and got admitted to all of the new schools (but got rejections from the repeat applications to schools that rejected him the first time).
Re: #41
The rules on post-high school work do vary from college to college. To avoid losing the ability to apply as a frosh, one can take the safe and simple route of “no college courses after high school graduation”, or one can look carefully at the rules for each college to see what can be done without losing the ability to apply as a frosh.
Note that the rules may differ for admitted frosh, who may be allowed to take college courses in the summer (or fall for spring admits) between high school graduation and matriculating to the given college, depending on the college’s policies.
These are links to the college clearinghouse site that I mentioned earlier.
http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/colleges/studenttracker/
http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/colleges/enrollmentverify/
On the second link there is a link for
“reduce fraudulent student status claims”
Colleges do use this site to confirm the status of enrolled students.
in post 44 Ucbalumnus nailed the reason I posted the earlier link to Andison.
re applying to colleges again after a gap year.
need2learn wrote:
I think the lesson learned from the Andison thread that was linked in comment #31 is not that he aimed too high but that he didn’t consider a way to stand out among the rest of his high performing classmates and other applicants applying from his geographical area - also he didn’t stroke the egos of his match schools so they waitlisted him.
Actually, those andi threads linked from #31 indicate a student who applied with no safeties the first time, got shut out, took a gap year, then made the same mistake of applying to no safeties the second time, but got lucky and got admitted to all of the new schools (but got rejections from the repeat applications to schools that rejected him the first time).
I’m going to assume that Andison figured that Case and WPI were his safety schools the second time around - both have acceptance rates over 50% this year (probably higher back in 2006) and both notify their EA applicants in early December giving time to make a new plan if bad news is received - should have been plenty safe for a NMSF with a high gpa and interesting ec’s who showed an interest in the schools…
Re #46, I myself have taken a few college courses at a community college and at a local four year college, but only as a “visiting student” or “community member” or “non-degree seeking student” or something of the like. I have not matriculated at any of those institutions in a program leading to a degree, undergraduate or otherwise.
The notion that doing something such as I’ve done would necessarily preclude enrolling someplace else as a freshman, or that doing so would certainly constitute a “fraudulent student status claim” is not intuitively obvious to me.
Though that may indeed be the case.
^^ moneydad, what you have done doesnt matter if you are not planning on appling to other colleges as an incoming freshman.
All FRESHMAN applicants have to declare on their application that they have NOT enrolled at another college since graduation.
Don’t you want him to be able to communicate his STEM findings and to figure out what study might be meaningful? Don’t you want him to be able to weigh the risks and benefits associated with an ethical dilemma. Don’t you want him to be able to figure out what the next important areas of study is? All that requires that he pursue courses that educate him along with learning techniques. This need is especially acute if he is only 16. He can’t possibly have encountered and considered all of the world’s biggest most pressing issues by 16. Premature foreclosure on career goals at 16 may spark a lot of problems later on. Give him breadth!
I sort of think he’s been getting breadth all along. The kid took philosophy classes at age 10 and 11 at one of the top philosophy schools in the country (yes, Rutgers is ranked that high). We’ve never limited him. He took courses on theater and jazz last year. He’ll be ok. He can focus on other people’s shoes. Not just his own. Actually, he can even make eye contact.
Re #47
CWRU does consider applicant’s interest – a risky “safety”. Not sure about WPI.
re #49:
"All FRESHMAN applicants have to declare on their application that they have NOT enrolled at another college since graduation. "
Perhaps this varies by institution? because, eg upon quick search I found this:
"If by the end of the current academic year you will have completed less than one year of full-time college study*, you should apply through the freshman admissions process. If you are admitted as a freshman, work done after secondary school graduation but before matriculation at Yale may be accepted (up to a maximum of two course credits) with the approval of the appropriate director of undergraduate studies at Yale. "
http://admissions.yale.edu/transfer
This particular example is moot since OP already has completed “one year of full-time college study” by Yale’s stated standards, hence would be considered a transfer applicant by Yale. But other applicants who took only a course or two after HS might have fewer than eight transferable courses. and Yale says here that it WANTS such people to apply as a freshman applicant, not a transfer applicant. Unless, am I misreading something???
Obviously if such applicants are being told by Yale to apply as freshman applicants, Yale does not expect them to make the subject declaration.
Rules vary a lot between the schools. I recall reading, probably for Cornell, that credits taken prior to matriculation would not be transferrable. Departments may consider them, but the school as a whole does not. I don’t think my older son ever finished the process to get credit for the Rutgers math and philosophy courses he took. It wasn’t that important to him.
Re: #53
Rules on who can apply as frosh do vary. I have seen listed rules like:
- Enrollment in any college courses after the summer immediately after high school graduation makes you a transfer.
- Completion of any college courses after the summer immediately after high school graduation makes you a transfer.
- Completion of 12 semester credits of college courses makes you a transfer.
- Enrollment as a full time degree seeking student after high school graduation in any college makes you a transfer.
- No transfer students are admitted, but those with college credit may apply as frosh if otherwise eligible.
Unless one wants to check the rules of every possible college of interest, the safest policy to avoid being forced to apply as a transfer would be “no college courses after high school graduation”.
But OP may rather check the rules individually, have son take the needed humanities courses at CC to get them over with, then apply to the appropriate cooperating colleges, accordingly.
When I was in banking some people would hire lawyers who would give legal opinions that happened to make their deal work. Whereas other lawyers had other opinions, whereby the deal did not work. They call it “opinion shopping”. This would be kind of like that. Except it would be “freshman status shopping”.
OP will want to find the ones that have criteria “* Enrollment as a full time degree seeking student after high school graduation in any college makes you a transfer.”
Because S will have credits, but will not have enrolled as a degree seeking student anyplace, presumably.
Since you said Brown is on the radar, I will mention that my dd was a math-cs major there. They also have applied math-cs, econ-cs and computational biology joint degree programs along with the main CS degree. Applied math is a particularly strong dept there as is CS. The advantage of the open curriculum is that you have to take the classes for your major and you have to take a certain number of total units, but you can choose what you take electively to make up those total units–even more classes in your major (Since my dd’s time there is a new writing course requirement, however is is not onerous.) The advantage for him would be the ability to pick and choose classes outside the major to explore a few different areas in depth or just to take what he deems interesting and you can do that on a credit/no credit basis for as many as you like. Some people might just sample classes that are known as particularly popular because of the fascinating professors teaching them. Geology is supposed to be really good, and Modern Culture and Media among others. Or the first years can do small seminars that are interdisciplinary. However the open curriculum isn’t meant to avoid liberal arts. My kid ended up a monster in the CS, math and sciences area even though she had always been very good at the other stuff and I think she missed out a bit. Although she had a great resume for CS grad school.
Also she did Budapest Semesters in Math, show him this for when he is ready to go abroad. She did this first semester of Sr year.
http://www.budapestsemesters.com/
About AP, colleges like that just aren’t going to give you much credit for AP. You won’t even get advanced standing at Brown in Chemistry for instance, because AP is a prereq to regular Chem. If you didn’t have it you have to take a no credit class to prepare (you can do that online in summer or in class in fall.) And they don’t have credit for AP CS-- it is not at all as comprehensive an intro as they do in CS 17/18. You can get advanced placement for AP Calc and I have read that you can get credit for it but mine didn’t ask for credit for it. She just took 4 years of classes in what she wanted and would have liked to take more.
“About AP, colleges like that just aren’t going to give you much credit for AP.”
Many of the very “tippy top universities” may not, but step down a notch, particulalry sliding over to LACs*, and you may be surprised.
eg (just one I’m familiar with):
http://barnard.edu/registrar/external-credit/ap
I looked at D1s old school, they have materially tightened things up since she came through there FWIW. So this may be a bit of a a changing target.
- just so I'm clear under NO circumstance am I suggesting an LAC for OPs kid. He may run out of advanced level courses in the latter years, Do NOT repeat our mistake.
No, he is not right for an LAC. We thought it might be ok for him (thus the bad choices for many of his original applications/rejections). We knew it wasn’t possible for his older brother. With calc III, linear alg. and diff eq already under his belt, LAC seems like a bad idea. Cornell gave decent credit for APs, but older son still chose to take a physics class rather than take credit (he took credit for one of the two AP C classes and chose a course for the other). He heard the teacher was great and the course worthwhile. He learned a lot that wasn’t covered in the high school class. I think he had 14 APs. Decent amount of credit and great for placement at Cornell.