<p>"However, I can tell you that your son WILL change drastically after joining a fraternity, especially if it's a social one. Personally, frats really destroys one's sense of individuality."</p>
<p>That's just BS.</p>
<p>As I re read these posts I think alot of the gun control arguement. Do guns kill people or do people kill people?. It is far easier to blame an organization then realize an idividual is responsible for their own actions/inactions. </p>
<p>If you raised self aware kids, NO ONE (even you or a frat) can tell them or make them do anything without consent. </p>
<p>So far alot of the arguements against seem to be around someone's inability to say "no". It is just easier to blame the instituion in a general way, rather than own up to the fact an idividual can say no and walk away at anytime. </p>
<p>I am truly sorry for some of these situations and results. In the same way I am sorry for the kids who get hauled to the ER's from the dorms, roadways and where ever. In just about every situation, they played a part in their predictament, didn't they? </p>
<p>As I said before look closely at the situation (your kid primarily, their call) and weigh the situation out and if it's for you, fine. If not, that's OK too.</p>
<p>personal story- my son joined a frat this past year. He also participates in intramurals, an honors organization, a science club, a religious based group, and has good friends in his and other dorms that are not in the frat. Basically, he's a social animal but does not glom onto any one group. He has a close buddy, OTOH, who he describes as cult-like in his own devotion to his fraternity. Son does not understand it- he likes his friends from all walks of life.</p>
<p>Remember in high school- the kid who joined band and lived, breathed and ate band and band alone? Or the cheerleader who only hung out with other cheerleaders? Or sports athletes who only chum with each other? There's always those types, and they too join frats. Then there are those who manage more than one circle of friends. Being in a frat doesn't define a person anymore than being in the band, cheerleading squad, drama troop, dance company, etc. If someone becomes cult-like in his devotion to the greeks, that's just the propensity he has/had to immerse himself in it. Not everyone is like that.</p>
<p>There is research from the North American Interfraternity Conference (that I've heard directly from the mouth of one the NIC's Vice-Presidents) that shows students who join chapters with average GPA's above the all-male or all-female average at their school end up with higher GPA's than they would otherwise obtain. Likewise, those who join chapters with GPA's below the respective all-gender GPA's end up with lower GPA's.</p>
<p>That said, the pledge semester is an intense one. Great chapters will put an emphasis on GPA, have designated study hours for pledges, and incentive programs in place for academic success. But in the hustle and bustle of pledge meetings, lore tests, intramurals and the thrill of a rapidly expanding social calendar (not to mention ALWAYS having someone available to watch a movie or play video games with), grades have to be made a priority. Parents can help that. But they must be reasonable too. Part of the maturation of freshman year is learning to handle one's time.</p>
<p>My little brother's pledge class just came back with a total of six 4.0's for first semester (out of 22 guys) and collective GPA of 3.47 - at a university where the average first semester freshmen GPA is typically hovering in the 2.85 - 2.9 range.</p>
<p>So how did rush go, SuNa?</p>
<p>Ha, thanks for asking. I just re-read a lot of this thread and it's amazing how much I agree with. I even agree with members who hold opposing positions . . . ! </p>
<p>Well, DS rushed with two friends, so they were a "package." That concept only worked with one of the six frats they had their eye on, and that is Sigma Alpha Epsilon (SAE). I had been hoping for one with a higher average GPA (though perhaps that's hypocritical of me since DS has a lower GPA than most all the frats on campus) and perhaps a more "humble" reputation, but there it is. He is thrilled, particulary as he has his two close friends plus another kid he really likes in with him. His two other good friends chose Sig Chi, which is rugby.</p>
<p>They have been keeping the pledges busy this first week of classes. I tried to call him an hour ago and no answer. We are strongly recommending that he take four, not five classes. I think he does want to do well this semester but that may be at least partially out of his control due to tiredness, interruptions, etc. That said, he's a business major and the frat is full of business and hotel majors. . .perhaps there will be social benefits (?)</p>
<p>I will keep you all posted, and continue to welcome advice, stories, etc.!</p>
<p>SuNa, you might be thankful he didn't pledge Sig Chi. This was in our local news this week:
[quote]
CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- Officials at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have reduced sanctions against a fraternity accused of hazing.
A panel of students in November found the school's chapter of Sigma Chi guilty of forcing pledges to drink alcohol, go without sleep and perform menial tasks. The university's Greek Judicial Board suspended the group until 2009, barring the fraternity from holding initiations and social events.
But Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Margaret Jablonski decided last week that the punishment was excessive and instead put the fraternity on probation for one year.
Probation is similar to a suspension, but it allows the fraternity to bring in new members.
"The suspension would have caused the chapter to fold without being able to take in new members each year," Jablonski said.
Sigma Chi members said in a statement that they were pleased with the appeals process.
"We believe that this experience will improve our new member program and our chapter as a whole," the chapter said.
In November, members of Sigma Chi acknowledged taking more than 10,000 copies of the school's student newspaper when The Daily Tar Heel ran a front-page story about the hazing allegations against the chapter. The fraternity agreed to pay for replacement copies of the newspaper.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm disappointed that Chapel Hill didn't stand firm in their original sanction.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That said, he's a business major and the frat is full of business and hotel majors. . .perhaps there will be social benefits (?)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think there are definitely benefits for those headed into business. Our S, though not headed into business, basically inherited a finance internship from a "brother" in his sophomore year. There are also leadership positions in the frat that assume importance in applying for business jobs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm disappointed that Chapel Hill didn't stand firm in their original sanction.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Standard slap on the wrist, look the other way, and be glad the university doesn't have to provide more housing.</p>
<p>Son (soph. who did not rush) came home to watch Super Bowl with dad and brother. As we were doing the "how was your week thing", he mentioned that one boy in his dorm was flown home cross country by his parents because he was so devastated by not being selected by the frat/s he desired. </p>
<p>Another view he shared was that his college's new president (in his 2nd year) has started coming down very hard on the frats/sororities for alcohol, hazing, etc. It is his belief that within a few years (if current pres. stays) that the GLO on this campus will be greatly reduced.</p>
<p>" I think he does want to do well this semester but that may be at least partially out of his control due to tiredness, interruptions, etc. That said, he's a business major and the frat is full of business and hotel majors. . .perhaps there will be social benefits (?)"</p>
<p>SuNa - this is what I don't understand about frats on a college campus - if they are so positive, then parents and students would not have to worry that grades will be impacted by pledging a fraternity. I still don't see a purpose for them on campus. Like minded students will find each other anyway and without a preformed group, they may actually grow a little, meet other people first, and join a different like minded group!</p>
<p>Okay, I guess I should admit that, fundamentally, I am against the Greek concept. I can accept much of what it stands for, but I just cannot accept the exclusivity. I know that humans are drawn to cliques, and that it feels very good to be accepted into a group that doesn't accept everyone, but I just think the end result can be too hurtful and damaging (your post was painful to read, MKM56, but thank you for that reminder. My heart goes out to the young man). </p>
<p>Perhaps I should have forbidden my kids to pledge. The problem is that they're at a school we're quite happy with in most every respect, but the social life is dominated by the Greek system. Daughter was thrilled to join, enjoyed her sorority sophomore year, then kind of pulled away. Son is also excited about being a pledge, and I predict he will enjoy it for longer, perhaps for his entire four years. I guess it's a good sign of letting go that I can hold such a strong opinion yet support my kids when they make decisions that contradict it.</p>
<p>LOL - SuNa, you are definitely a better person than I am. I am holding a grudge and can't give up yet . OTOH, that I haven't pulled tuition and board yet can only be seen as some kind of passive tolerance or willingness to let him make his own decisions, right? Parenting is a tough job. I have a really good idea of how my father felt when I was protesting on the Commons! Payback!</p>
<p>"I still don't see a purpose for them on campus. Like minded students will find each other anyway and without a preformed group, they may actually grow a little, meet other people first, and join a different like minded group"</p>
<p>You know, you could probably go down the list of clubs and social groups at any college and more than half might have absolutely no purpose to exist in anybody's mind. They are there because somebody has an interest. The greeks are there because somebody has an interest, it may not match your interest, but at least respect theirs. </p>
<p>"Perhaps I should have forbidden my kids to pledge. The problem is that they're at a school we're quite happy with in most every respect, but the social life is dominated by the Greek system."</p>
<p>Is this because they are involved at the exclusion of others or are they the ones that do the grunt work to pull an activity off? Every social function needs bodies to set everything up for others to enjoy. The greeks tend to provide the labor that gets alot done around an average college campus. It's not that others don't help, but the greek system is a bit more organized and can pull together bodies quickly to get things done. If you had to wait for people to sign up to set up, say homecoming events, when would you "know" you had enough bodies to pull it off? </p>
<p>" Daughter was thrilled to join, enjoyed her sorority sophomore year, then kind of pulled away. Son is also excited about being a pledge, and I predict he will enjoy it for longer, perhaps for his entire four years. I guess it's a good sign of letting go that I can hold such a strong opinion yet support my kids when they make decisions that contradict it."</p>
<p>My D didn't make it this year. No big deal, she had doubts about things so she didn't get an offer. Probably the best thing for both soro and her right now. She worried more than a little that in doing all the community projects they do that she wouldn't be able to keep her 4.0. Her feelings were hurt for about 15 minutes. I had told her the night before if she had doubts maybe she should let them know as it is a commitment. If she's not ready to make it, it is better not to. She then talked to her mom and felt the other way. She couldn't really decide one way or another, so waiting another year is probably the best idea.</p>
<p>Did they hurt her feelings? Yea they did. Are they bad people for hurting her? No, they're not, because if my D had doubts the best thing to do was wait until the doubts went away and she felt more comfortable. The only thing my D wanted was to be able to say "no". I'm not too sympathic to that aspect. </p>
<p>My S is begining to travel for Med school interviews this month. His frat experience has been 99% awesome for him. He's grown into a fine young man, well regarded by the college he attends. The greek system has not harmed him in any way, shape or form. I don't think he's the exception to the rule. </p>
<p>Again, the greek system is something an individual (not mom, not dad) should explore for themselves. There is a pro and con with every life decision, it should be up to the student to make that choice if it's for them. Some here are trying waaay tooo hard to sway a reader away from something that might be just fine for them. There's hidden agendas happening that make things unfair if they aren't disclosed upfront. </p>
<p>A reasonable person would advise someone to look into it, ask questions, seek answers from proper sources and simply decide for themselves if it works for them. This applies to the greek system, college selection and most everything else in life.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It is his belief that within a few years (if current pres. stays) that the GLO on this campus will be greatly reduced.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'd wager that the greek organizations will outlast the new prez. if he continues to make waves.</p>
<p>"I think he does want to do well this semester but that may be at least partially out of his control due to tiredness, interruptions, etc."</p>
<p>Hm, out of his control? First of all, if you decide to take on an additional commitment, that's within your control. Secondly, I don't think very much of a house that pulls pledges' GPAs down by interrupting their studying and wearing them out to the point that they can't keep their grades up. Not all frats do that. Ultimately, even when a commitment to pledging has been made, the student still has a choice on any given night whether to attend a fraternity event or study for a test. It's never out of his control.</p>
<p>first, a little propaganda for fraternities in general. </p>
<p>Since the founding of the American College Fraternity movement in 1776, fraternities have grown to symbolize leadership, independence, scholastic achievement and service to their various campuses and communities. Fraternity men represent a very small percentage, only 2% of the male population in the United States. However, that 2% is a very powerful group of individuals. Fraternity men have gone on to hold many of the top positions in our nation, from the business world to the political arena. Approximately 80% of the top executives of Fortune 500 companies are fraternity men. 76% of current United States Senators and Congressmen are fraternity men. 100 of 158 cabinet members since 1900 have been fraternity men. 40 of 47 Supreme Court Justices since 1910 have been fraternity men All but two United States Presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men. It is certainly no surprise that today's college and university students express a keen interest in the Greek system. The opportunities are endless and the benefits speak for themselves. Each year thousands of young men enter the working world with the competitive advantage of fraternity experience and alumni contacts.</p>
<p>Secondly, </p>
<p>I went to school planning to rush fraternities, to get to party, get free drinks, and meet girls. I did not wish to join one. Then I bet the brothers. Within twenty four hours of meeting these guys, I was offered a bid. I accepted on the spot. At that point I was going through a rough time at school, battling depression, and my first semester grades had been lackluster. However upon joining up, I had 29 pledge brothers I could rely on for help with classes, girls, or just to back me up if I got in any trouble. I went through a lot of stuff that I did not find demeaning, but would be considered under the law, hazing. (A side not here. A lot of people have talked about mandatory study hours for fraternities. According to state law, due to the fact that these study hours are mandatory, they are considered hazing.) I did push ups, did menial tasks for brothers, got a funny nick name, did not get enough sleep, etc. etc. However, on top of the 29 pledge brothers I had, I made another 40 friends. I had a group of 70 guys to hang out with. I could call up any one of them at any point of the day, be it a death in the family, a divorce, breaking up with a girl, and they would go out and have a beer with me, talk, and try to help. The fact that some of the things pledgeship entailed were tough just made initiation that much sweeter, and made my feelings of belonging that much stronger. Fraternities aren't for everyone, but they can be very rewarding.</p>
<p>p.s.
Some of the parents on this discussion board really need to stop micro managing their childrens' lives. College is about learning to handle yourself, and really, getting great grades does not ensure a lifetime of happiness, prosperity, and an entrance into heaven. I'd rather have a good four years, get good grades, and have fond memories, then bust my ass, be miserable, and look back with hatred on college. Really, who remembers the third class of your sophomore year in history? But I bet you remember some of the nights you spent partying with your friends, or doing non academic things. </p>
<p>That's my rant. I'm sure I'll hear back from some people. Oh, and our dues are around 1,400 a semester, which I pay myself from working. And it's worth it.</p>
<p>Just curious, SuNa: were your fears re: grades realized or not?</p>
<p>Thanks for asking, wolfpiper. My son has been super busy this semester, but happier than ever. He loves his new fraternity brothers. Grade-wise, I think things have been okay. He "hasn't had time" to attend calculus help sessions and I'm expecting a C grade in that class, but I don't think he would have attended even if his schedule had been free. He managed to ace an economics test in the middle of "hell week," the first A we've heard about all year. His other classes seem to be in the B range, with a possible A in writing seminar.</p>
<p>Mandatory study hours have been helpful, but advice from the brothers about keeping grades up (one told him, "If your grades aren't going well, nothing is going to go well for you) has been more beneficial. He commented to me, "I see so many brothers in the house that are successful and I want to be like them."</p>
<p>So, all in all, I guess it was a good decision to let go, tell him his grades are his business not ours, and allow him to pledge. </p>
<p>This coming from someone that has long been hostile to the Greek concept. Not sure I'm eating my words yet, but I'm beginning to nibble on them!</p>