Are we going to let our kids fail?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>We are the helicopter parents.</p>

<p>Are we going to support our kids when they make choices with no immediate payoff or no future payoff? When our kids want to live in the moment, are we going to encourage it? When they want to follow their dreams and they are not our dreams, how are we going to react?</p>

<p>Most kids after college are going to flounder. Finding a job, and a place to live may prove difficult. Kids that have soared through 16+years of school may find themselves in difficult situations when school is over. How we are going to react.</p>

<p>When a kid graduates from college and says I want to be a beach bum, and do as little as possible, has lost all motivation, how are we going to react?</p>

<p>When we visit our kids and they live in a crappy area, in a bug infested apartment, how are we going to react?</p>

<p>When they bring home their significant-other, and we can't stand that person with every fiber of our being, how are we going to react?</p>

<p>It is really easy to support our kids when they engage in activities (like going to college) that we support. When our kids are behaving in ways that we don't think are beneficial to them? How are we going to react?</p>

<p>Are we going to let our kids really fly away and be free?</p>

<p>I wonder.</p>

2

<p>If my kid's fly away and become really free (financially independent) and are happy and productive ( on their terms) I will not only be satisfied, but be proud. </p>

<p>My H and I lived in a crappy, bug infested apartment once - no shame there!</p>

3

<p>My D has stumbled already several times
I don't keep track of her grades and she had to take a year off so she could redo a semester long class
after graduation all I know is she is working this summer at her college and for a while anyway is sleeping on couches
I don't have any worry she will be a beach bum however- she doesn't care for sand fleas ;)
If she asks for advice - I will give it - as well as encouragment towards her next step- but I am winging it here- I don't know whats better for her, than she does</p>

4

<p>When they bring home their significant-other, and we can't stand that person with every fiber of our being, how are we going to react?</p>

<p>I like most of her friends- but if I found she was serious about someone that I had a major problem with- I wouldn't hold back- I would speak up ( possibly talking to her other friends first to see if they had same impression)- but I know kids who when very young( early- early 20s) became involved with people who were drug/alcohol abusers- violent- prone to rages, and the parents didn't say or do anything that indicated they had a concern- then you start to have kids with these people, and you look back wondering why no one said anything-
remember silence can indicate assumed approval-
Now if they are just irritating as hell- that I would hold back on- but anytime I think one of my friends or family is getting into a situation that could be dangerous, I would never forgive myself if I didn't butt in.</p>

<p>( I did find out in retrospect that she had , had a relationship with someone I found irritating as hell- snobby- pretentious- the whole nine yards- thank goodness it didn't get to the point where she brought her home ;) - it was hard enough to stand her when I just thought they were friends- I did bite my tonque though- yea for me! )</p>

5

<p>Hopefully you'll just let them live their own lives and try not to be judgemental.</p>

6

<p>Dstark, do we really have many choices? What future is there in saying, get off the beach and go to grad school, or, I can't stand your significant other--please drop him/her? I mean, they're adults--it's their lives.</p>

<p>My D, who graduated two years ago, has not followed any "prescribed" paths. She started out living at home, working as a canvasser, saved her money, went to Brooklyn, couldn't find a "real" job so worked in Barnes and Noble p/t, decided that wasn't working, is now back canvassing, living half time in Brooklyn, half-time with her canvasser bf (whom we like a lot) in a town near us, and looking for an apt of her own in that town for when her Brooklyn lease is up. None of the jobs she has worked needed her degree. So what? It's her life, and she's supporting herself. She's also saved a ton of money, and is planning on lots of travel. She is desultorily studying for the GRE, but no timeline for actually doing something in that direction.</p>

<p>You could call it floundering, but I call it her life. And I am so pleased with the young woman she has grown into being--what that woman ends up doing, well, that's up to her--but I sure am fortunate to get to watch this story unfold!</p>

7

<p>Garland, would you feel better if I didn't use the word flounder?</p>

8

<p>like I said- if I didn't feel she was in danger I wouldn't say anything- and I didn't find out that it was a "relationship" until it was over-</p>

<p>However- when young people become involved with somone who is violent and abusive- and no one says anything, even though they have knowledge of the behavior, the young person can feel like no one cares-
The person is likely not to have a real good sense of themselves anyway- to stay in a relationship with somone who is abusive, and if the people who are supposed to care about that persons well being, don't even sound a warning-that is being neglectful IMO
Big difference between shutting your trap when someone is just annoying- and letting your daughter go off with someone 3x their age who has been in prison for assualt of former girlfriends- and not only not saying anything, but being taken in by his charisma and wanting to believe he was a "nice" guy</p>

9

<p>dstark-Support them? Sure. Agree with all their decisions? Probably not. Love them? Of course!!
There have been various threads amongst this group about acceptable limits and boundaries with our kids. Everything from co-ed sleepovers and prom night rules to how involved parents should be in the application process or college contact. There are huge variances in how we all decide to parent. One common thread is that we are all involved in their lives because we want the best for them. For the most part, the letting go process is a slow one, and the difference between a college freshman and a college graduate is night and day. It's just hard to imagine our kids being adults right now. It was hard for me to imagine my 8th grader being a college student. But here he is, and I don't agree with all his decisions but I do support his right to make those choices. I will support him because I trust in his ability to make mistakes and recover from them. Maybe those questions you pose would be better answered from a parent whose child hasn't stumbled or experienced setbacks. My son has, and he has survived and adapted. So, if he decides to be a beach bum after graduation, I will support that decision. Not financially, but emotionally.
My family loves the Cosby show, and we saw the episode recently where the oldest daughter and her new husband decided to open a wilderness store instead of continuing on to law and medical school. I loved the mom's response, "You owe me $80 thousand dollars for the Princeton education!" Ultimately she accepted the fact that this wasn't her life and calmed down. I could see the same thing happening here. The same love you have for your child that makes you involved in their life now will allow you to let them be who they are when the time comes for them to make choices that wouldn't be yours.</p>

10

<p>"Maybe those questions you pose would be better answered from a parent whose child hasn't stumbled or experienced setbacks."</p>

<p>Luckysmom, no. These questions are better answered by those whose children have taken a different path. Answered by those who have had children who have stumbled or experienced setbacks.</p>

11

<p>Dstark--no, I was not just answering the word (or I could have focused on "fail", too.) I was trying to get at a deeper idea--it's their lives. Time to trust that we've brought them up right, and definitely way past time to expect to see any particular trajectory that we would prefer.</p>

12

<p>If we can only teach our kids ONE thing- it is to keep going after a diversion- a stumble- a setback
When we look at those who have made great achievments in their lives- we don't see all the times they failed- you have to be willing to fail or get diverted to acheive.
Yesterday I went to a funeral of a girl who had a 4.00gpa, a cheerleader- an award winner- all around athlete- beautiful and with many friends.
She jumped off a bridge saturday- she was 15
I don't know what happened, other than she had a fight with her mom and stormed out ( isn't that your worst nightmare?)
Kids need to have time to reassess- they don't have to always acheive- development= IMO through the lifespan is cyclical- it isn't a straight course to acheivment. Just like when they were little, and they took a huge leap forward- they might regress in some areas.
Steve Jobs had a great commencement address at Stanford last year- that touched on this-
ttp://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html
[quote]
Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life.

[/quote]

life your life- be aware- don't be afraid of making mistakes or of your children making mistakes- serendipty :)
Encourage them to do what they need to do- just like you encouraged them to follow their own path after high school- it is their life- not their fathers & not their cousin Zacks</p>

13

<p>emeraldkity- Your post made me cry. One moment of despair and there is no recovery from that type of fall. I love the quote from Steve Jobs. That's going on another sticky note on my computer.</p>

14

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<p>I think it would depend on "why" I/we didn't care for the person..... </p>

<p>If the person was mean, cruel, abusive, jealous, dishonest, or something similar, I would speak up (just as I would if one of my friends became involved with such a person. I would choose my words carefully and present them in at an appropriate time and place. I probably wouldn't just say, "I don't like XXXXXX" (that would put kid on defensive). I might start by asking, "how did you feel when XXXX yelled at you yesterday?" or "Does it scare/bother you when XXXX does ___________?" or "Do you think XXXX is showing that he/she 'loves you' by acting in such a jealous manner?" or "Do you worry that XXXX will cheat on you like he/she did in a previous relationship?"</p>

<p>I would try to get my kid to talk to me about the situation and hopefully they would ask for further advice. Thankfully, my kids talk to me about everything and they trust my opinion. </p>

<p>When your kids become adults, you can treat them as friends. We give our friends advice, don't we? (One of my best friends still laughs about the fact that I told her that I get to pick her next husband after she has poorly chosen 2.)</p>

<p>If I just "didn't like the person," because of a difference in personalities, then it isn't my business.</p>

15

<p>"Are we going to let our kids fail?" The title of this thread disturbs me - our responsibilities as parents are to love, train, teach, and encourage them to be decent, compassionate, responsible and independent adults. Once our kids have reached the age of majority, it's time for us to step back and watch as they spread their wings. Hopefully, we have done all we can to foster the growth of those wings - everything from smiling at them as they step on that kindergarten bus to allowing them to make decisions (and experience the consequences).</p>

<p>Unless there is a situation which involves intervention to prevent the loss of life, we must "let go" of them. Our kids are not our clones - they will have differing ideas on what constitutes "success" as they live their lives. And yes, we must "let" them fail (i.e., make their own choices).</p>

16

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<p>I don't think that it has to be "that" extreme in order to rationalize saying "something" if an adult child (or even a friend) is about to make a really dumb mistake that will have drastic results. </p>

<p>It almost seems as if some here think that adult children don't need advice but I'm sure these same people think nothing of offering advice to their friends. </p>

<p>My parents still will kindly offer advice to me and I don't mind at all. Their wisdom and experience has kept me from making some expensive mistakes. (H and I are late 40s and my parents are 78 & 86). They treat me with respect and dignity so I know that their advice does not come from the perspective that they think that I am stupid -- I know that they have seen/experienced things that I haven't -- and I don't mind learning from them or their mistakes. When my H and I were shopping for our first home, my parents were able to offer insights that we didn't have. We didn't have children yet so my mom was able to "see" that some homes were more "kid friendly" than others. My dad was able to "see" which homes would be "high maintenance" (My H is NOT the "handy" type!) Frankly, I would have been annoyed with them if they had remained quiet and let us just blindly buy a home and later learn that they knew about the home's shortcomings but hadn't pointed them out to us.</p>

<p>(Now, don't misunderstand me... I am talking about "adult to adult advice/discussions". I am NOT talking about "do as I tell you, I am the parent" kind of advice - which really are "orders". And, I'm not talking about giving criticisms AFTER some choice has already been implemented. such as: I told you not to buy THAT house/car, etc.)</p>

17

<p>Unlike when our offspring are truly children and under our direct control, once they grow up and hit legal age, we can not stop our kids from making big mistakes.</p>

<p>We can cut off monetary support. We can give them advice, but we can not run their lives for them -- no matter how much we love them and want them to avoid mistakes that we can see them running to.</p>

<p>Sometimes all we can do is grit our teeth and keep the lines of communication open so they will turn to us -- not drugs, booze or dysfunctional friends-- for advice after they fall.</p>

18

<p>A fewtimes when I got into $$$ jams between 18 and 23 my parents would wire the money to help out without too many questions. Not more than three times or more than $500 but it was a huge help at the time and I think I appreciated it. Otherwise they gave me freedom to choose what I wanted to do and where. They both left their homelands and family for the US so i think they appreciated seeking out your future wherever it might be.</p>

19

<p>In my post (#16) I hope I made it clear that adult parents can't "stop" an adult child from making a bad mistake. I hope it is clear that parents shouldn't feel that they can't offer some thoughtful advice if they believe that their adult child is about to make a big mistake.</p>

20

<p>I sure give my friends advice- not often really I guess- but for instance when somone is thinking of buying a home for rental where their freshman is attending school- I remind them that it is in an area that will be difficult for them to get to and help landlord & do they really want to give that responsibility to their son, when he is having a hard enough transition just being a college student?
I dunno is that too strong?
I think advice from peers or older adults can be helpful, and as a parent, I certainly qualify as an older adult ;)
so this weekend will be an interesting challenge- can I make the transition from parent to interested bystander? ( so to speak)
can I refrain from making all the snarky comments that I could picture coming out of my mothers mouth?
I always have good intentions- but I am better under major stress like a flood or a fire, than minor stress like inlaws.</p>