<p>My mother has given up almost none of those things, especially since I’ve begun driving myself. Every time I have a play, she attends one performance. She’s signs forms, she makes me dinner when I’m actually at home, and breakfast on the weekends, she asks me how I’m doing, and her participation in the college process has been putting her tax info in the FAFSA and making sure I’m attending a “real” college, and paying the enrollment fee when I got into one of my top choices. </p>
<p>It’s been very hands off through the entirety my high school years. I think that was a combination of me being naturally inclined to be independent, and her not wanting me to be raised in the same way she was, with a very strict and demanding lifestyle. It’s worked well for me, but it depends on how independent your kid is and whether you can trust them enough.</p>
<p>Momzie, I gave up my job. Turns out my college son has needed a great deal of my help…with one of his science classes and then solving endless problems when he went abroad. In the mean time I was the chauffeur for my high school son. I spent hours and hours in the car as he learned to drive. And I opened the house to his high school club officers every week. And then there was the time I took to visit my son overseas, and plan and execute his graduation party. When would I have had time to work?</p>
<p>Giving up your job is a big sacrifice, and also only practical in family’s with one parent as a major bread winner. Personally by having a fulfilling career, I am teaching my children what a complete life is like. Do we have perfectly home cooked meals every night? No of course not. But I am always available to them to talk, and if not physically able to get something done for them, make them problem solve it on their own. </p>
<p>No one’s method is perfect. But I do hope that my kids mistakes along the way, will be well managed by them, not me.</p>
<p>Big question- what is a “power user” and how do you get to be one?</p>
<p>Bigger question- Why do I keep returning to C.C. even when my child is safely enrolled as a sophomore in a nice college and I have no more children coming through the pipeline?</p>
<p>I told my BF about this saying, “Is this a bad thing?” He replied that I should absolutely not, under any circumstances, do anything of the kind when my D goes off to college. (When he states things categorically like this, I know that, for reals, I should listen.) So, only one more semester to impart every bit of wisdom I can …</p>
<p>I think we vary as a community on CC, but do TEND to be more involved than many other parents. </p>
<p>For us, our big role was going with S (our older child) to see the GC a few times and asking him to name schools likely to give significant merit awards to students with stats like S’s, so we could visit some that were in the vicinity of where we were traveling on vacation. We also did in fact drive around and even tour a few–both D & S came to most tho some were just me, S & SisIL (D was in HI in a state championship canoe race).</p>
<p>We also paid registration fees so S & D could take whatever AP exams & SAT & ACT exams they chose & later college app fees & fees to send scores & transcripts to the Us he chose to apply to. He made up his own list & did his own apps w/o input from us, other than telling him he HAD to have a financial safety on his list that he would be HAPPY to attend & that we could afford.</p>
<p>For D, she just applied to one & it was to transfer to the U she helped move her brother to the prior year. It was wholly her choice & she didn’t let us see any of her app (tho she did ask her friends to help review/critique her essay).</p>
<p>Neither kiddo has asked for help with homework since grade school, nor let us look at any of their work (we only saw whatever was shown at open house). </p>
<p>S had D help him with his resume & cover letters. We helped D with obtaining props and shooting a photo that had her in it for her application to a program, but she set the shot up as well as the camera & told us exactly what she wanted & obtained the equipment.</p>
<p>We have been MUCH more involved than my folks were, but they had LOTS more kids to spread their attention among. H’s folks only had 3 kids & I’m not sure how hands on/off they were as he’s never spoken much about it. Suspect they didn’t get too involved in academics, as they never attended college, tho his mom taught a foreign language for a while. We don’t feel we were/are TOO obsessed.</p>
<p>Not in my area, which is a declining, lower-middle-class, blue collar community in rural America. Sure, there are parents who have no ambition for their kids to attend college, but they’re in the minority. Most parents who do not have college degrees are only too aware that their opportunities are limited and aspire for their children to have better options.</p>
<p>Sometimes, this is just a vague “I hope my kid can go to college,” but there are families who are just as obsessed as the HYPS graduate who hangs out on CC all day.</p>
<p>One family I know sticks out. Both mom and dad have very well-paying and secure union jobs, but both are savvy enough to know that the world has changed in the three decades since they entered the work force. They have four kids and are determined that each go to college. For the last 20 years, they have lived off the dad’s salary (he’s a railroad engineer) and banked the entire union machinist mom’s paycheck into the kids’ college fund. Every night, the whole family sits around the table while the kids do their homework. If a kid has an evening sports event, before the kid goes to bed, they do their homework and have it checked by mom or dad. Their oldest was our school’s valedictorian and is now a junior in an honors program at a good (though not “top” by CC standards) LAC, where he’s been in the honors program and on the dean’s list all four years. D1 is at a CC, making up for the inadequate math and science offerings at our local HS and with the ambition to transfer into engineering at our state flagship. D2 is a HS junior and a top student. D3 is in junior high.</p>
<p>The most obsessed people I know are those who spend thousands of dollars and thousands of hours every year on their children’s sports. The ones who spend every Thanksgiving with one parent and a kid at a tournament a thousand miles away from the rest of the family in the pursuit of a dream that their kid’s skill and interest levels just don’t support. </p>
<p>A few years ago the Washington Post ran an article breaking down the cost (money, injuries, lack of time spent on other aspects of development, emotional exhaustion, how it kills the kid’s love of the sport) of years of participation in high level club sports. </p>
<p>I know many more kids who absolutely refused to continue with their sport (even in intramurals in college) after high school due to total burn out, than kids whose participation in a sport helped them with college admissions. </p>
<p>I know there are kids for whom sports were a golden ticket, but there are many more “pretty good” kids with obsessed parents. That’s the only way all those tournaments can continue to exist.</p>
<p>THis sounds like the conversation we’re having in my house right now. We spend a lot of money on our kid’s classical music – lots of driving, money for really good instruments, topnotch teachers, expensive music camps – and lately my husband has been saying “You know, if all this college stuff is as much of a crap shoot as it appears to be, then that basically means that there’s no particular guarantee that any of this will pay off as a music scholarship, a “hook” into a top college etc. If our kids end up at the same school as the neighbor’s kids down the road, and they spent every Saturday going out to brunch while we hauled our butts and our kids to East Bumbershoot, then are we perhaps just wasting our time?” I’m also concerned that all the driving and practicing is going to be all our kids remember about their childhood. Does anybody else wonder about this stuff?</p>
<p>of course as always…, as always expected., they were too obsessed as if they were the one to go to college. They want that there child should take up the course they also take. like for example, if they were a family of doctors, their child must be a doctor too and of course the child has no choice but to obey their parents…behind this., parents didn’t know what their child really wants. As a result, their child will not graduate with that course, if graduate, they may not want that and shift to another field of study., far from his course taken…</p>
<p>In short, parents where always be there for their kids to guide them in whatever they were doing…, but choosing course for there kids is not there business anymore, although they may have advices but it is still the child who will study the course so it’s the child’s decision of his course he will be taking up accdg., to his potentials, skills, talent and of course there interest in it. (not including affordability of the course)</p>
<p>Momzie, yes, I’ve seen it with music and theater parents as well. Have you ever added up how much you spend per year on it all? </p>
<p>On year, when we had three kids playing sports and involved in music, I added up the total costs. Astounding, and we were holding a lid on things! No tournaments requiring hotel stays, no music competitions beyond local or school sponsored ones.</p>
<p>I wish my child had more ECs to put on her applications. What she did have was six years’ worth of voice lessons, which she stuck with on her own, simply because, in her words, she likes to sing and she likes spending time with her voice teacher! She doesn’t love to perform, though ironically enough she got a merit scholarship to one of the schools she applied to on the strength of her vocal talents (we just packaged up some highlights from the junior recital she participated in, grumbling all the way). I don’t think it’s wasting time or money to schlep your kids to and from lessons and such if they enjoy it and if you (and, most important, they) value training in classical music in and of itself. It certainly isn’t going to hurt them when it comes time to apply to college, whether or not they are competitive for whatever you deem to be the “best” program. There’s absolutely no need for your kids to go to the “same school as the neighbor’s kids” unless that’s where they really want to go, because no matter what their level of accomplishment, there are all manner and kind of terrific schools and programs, for kids of all levels of achievement, all over the country. Of course, I know nothing about where your kids fall on the spectrum of ability. I’m sure they’re AWESOME just like mine. :D</p>
<p>I totally agree with this. What are we suppose to do; say you are 18/you have finished high school now figure everything else out on your own? Of course not.</p>
<p>I think that we now have more resources in order to make informed choices as consumers of higher education. As others have stated $250-300k is a lot of money no matter how you slice it; whether you are full paying, whether your child is a beneficiary of the generosity of other parents/alums through need based financial aid or if your child is receiving merit money.</p>
<p>I know for me and mine as a person of color, access to equal opportunities in education has not always been freely given. Most of my siblings are older than Brown v. Board of Education. For many people of color we are only 2 to 3 generations removed from higher education. </p>
<p>Yes, I think that it is big that my parents who went to school in a one room classroom and had to leave school to work in the fields in the south and live with Jim Crow laws, have a grandchild that graduated from an Ivy league school (I only wished that they had lived to see it). But still, they did the best that they knew how. At that time, CUNY was free, so that is where we went. They did not know anything about need based aid. Being one of 10 kids, I was eligible for SEEK/College Discovery but it was not mentioned by the GC and I attended one of the big 3 NYC Specialized high schools.</p>
<p>Fast forward 2012, there are still many kids who have to work this process out for themselves by themselves. I think that being on CC can give us a skewed vision in thinking that every family tackles the college process the way that we do. If being an active participant in working with your child and their school to help your child go on to the next phase of his/her life is obsessive, what I would not give to have some obsessed parents on my caseload.</p>
<p>Absweetmarie, I think it is wonderful that your child took six years of voice lessons “because she likes to sing and she likes spending time with her voice teacher!” </p>
<p>That is exactly as it should be. Its the kids who take voice lessons for six years because their parents think they should that prompt the question “Are we parents too obsessed?”</p>
<p>One more thought about travel club sports teams. It took us all of the first season on a club team to figure this out years ago. It should have been obvious, but I think most of us wear blinders. Travel club teams exist for several reasons, most of which have nothing to do with the welfare of our particular child. The goals of most club teams include: having enough players to pay the operating costs of the team, and participating in tournaments that raise the club’s own stature in the sport so that they can attract better coaches and players to their club. The goal of paid coaches in club sports is to win. Those coaches who are in this as a career (even part time) are looking for “better” (more prestigous, better paying, full time) jobs as coaches. They add to their resumes by winning, particularly winning at prestigous tournaments. Our children are mostly cogs in the machine, and we parents need to be clear headed about why, exactly, our children are participating. </p>
<p>(Not a rant against club teams. My kids have played and still do play on club teams, but we try to view their participation with a clear eye.)</p>
<p>In our house we sit down to dinner practically every night. It averages out to five to six nights a week. There can be extra people, like my daughter’s boyfriend, but they can’t miss dinner more than once a week or so. Dance team practices eat into this a little during competition season, but overall, we’ve been successful at it. Our kids like it (DD wrote an essay about it once) and their friends love it. It’s a strange notion to them and I think they long for it more at their houses. Their parents are busy, or they’re busy, or (some of ) their parents think an 18 year old is basically able to be independent, including meals. </p>
<p>We’ve had to limit some activities to make this happen, which is not a bad thing imo. It’s been a great thing for our family.</p>
<p>Eastcoastcrazy, you sound like my husband when he does his rant about the swim team (where we also lasted one season). the term he liked to use was “pyramid scheme” – it seemed like the USAsports teams, or whatever they’re called, they use the tuition from the level 3 players to fund the travel, etc. of the level 1 players – and they can only fund those coaches if they keep bringing in money from the rest of us – so it always seemed like the tuition was really high and it never even went to our kids. </p>
<p>Our kids did a synchro swim team for awhile where they traveled – and I really liked the other moms so it actually did feel like a little vacation to go away and stay in a hotel, etc. (like Girl Scouts but with sequins and glitter) – but the music parents are kind of cruel and competitive, at least where we live. So it’s not like you can justify the money and the time by saying that it’s a little self-indulgent but I really enjoy it and it’s fun – cuz it’s not.</p>
<p>It is frightening how some parents (via sports/music, etc) have let the competition of getting in to the “right” college shape childhood and family life, regardless of the cost (financial, time, personal). How can we let the college admission system dictate what we do with our children? Does it matter so much that the child gets in to the top place? What is this idea of full-throttle achievement doing to our brains (making us obsessive) and our children’s (making them narcissistic and overly competitive). Does this truly mirror what we want our world to look like? </p>
<p>The upper middle class will never rebel, because it works for them.</p>
<p>One of my kids loves to draw in her free time. Another is an extremely prolific fiction writer, on the Internet, and has a following. Neither of them are going to be entering contests or starting publications, or going the next step so that they can prove to the admissions offices that they have achieved something grand. They practice their art simply because they enjoy it. That’s how it should be. If it were about the competition, or being the best, they probably wouldn’t enjoy it and be so productive. I think the value system of college admissions is doing great harm to our youth.</p>
<p>Amazingly, throughout my entire Theatre experience, I haven’t met any of those “stage moms” pressuring their kids to audition like crazy, who show up to rehearsals and what their kid to steal the show, etc. etc. There are those parents who are very supportive and come to every show, but none of the crazily-obsessed ones. Then again, I started in 7th grade, so I think it’s probably a sign that trying to pressure your kids into activities they don’t want to do will never last for long.</p>
<p>Nodding my head in agreement as I read this post, that’s pretty much the level of involvement I had (am having).</p>
<p>On club sports teams…my D’15 is an athlete and plays two sports in school (vball and lax), one also in club (vball). Within the “world” of vball clubs, there are levels (regional, national etc) and there are both for-profit and non-profit clubs. We chose regional and non-profit, because my D LOVES to play. She doesn’t particularly care if she is being seen by college coaches or traveling all over the country, she loves playing with girls on her level. Her coaches are volunteers, and very good. The cost is affordable for me, and the tournament travel is limited to maybe a 3 hour drive.</p>
<p>Now I know parents with girls on national teams who play literally year round, and spend dozens of thousands of dollars on national team fees and travel, and even outside lessons and personal trainers. It appears to me that the parents are driving that, not the athlete, but I don’t know the families well enough to say for sure.</p>
<p>But providing an opportunity for athletes to play a sport they love is, IMO, different from forcing a child to live and breathe a sport. It’s gotten so out of hand I know 9th graders who, having been on travel/club teams since 4th grade, are burned out when they start high school and refuse to play. That’s a shame.</p>
<p>On helicoptering in college… I know a coach at our local D3 LAC who gets phone calls, visits and emails from parents about their kids’ (lack of) playing time. In college.</p>