While I hated the "teaching kids how to drive phase ", it was definitely liberating. I also look at it as a life skill - just like swimming.
I’m sorry I took this off topic- I just tend to see a correlation between parents who don’t let their kids drive- just because they don’t; not because of expense or public transportation, and being overly involved. It’s probably because they are still the taxi! I also see a lot of fear on the part of the kids as well. We don’t live in an urban enough location and you really can’t get anywhere without a car. I knew that many kids just didn’t want to drive- this became a problem when a school group needed to travel on a plane- many over 18 had no identification, they had to go get a state id.
It’s funny my D’s high school parking spot costs more than college!
The insurance cost and all those hours are awful- we have that as well. I’m back to being taxi for a year (or supervising driver), not looking forward to it.
My two kids didn’t drive while in high school (well, one got her license 5 months before graduation).
- We moved while they were sophomores. Different state, different requirements. I wasn't really sure about the difference and how to go about getting them licenses. I was more concerned about getting them registered for school and into college than driver's ed.
- We had one car. One manual transmission car. Even if they had licenses, I needed the car to get to work. No public transportation in that area.
- Car insurance would have been $3000/yr. EACH. For the same car. A car only worth about $4000.
- One of my kids was a preemie. I don't know why, but almost every preemie we know has issues with driving and either doesn't drive or drives very late. Mine did get a license at 18, but is now 22 and drives only small cars ( a VW Bug). Parallel parking is out of the question. Backing up is not a given. She cannot drive the manual car (and yet I pay for her to be on my insurance because it is required).
- Even when my kids got their licenses, they took a long while to get up to the skills needed to go to different traffic areas like a downtown hotel or the airport. The college interviews are often in unfamiliar areas. They rarely went into the city we lived near during high school. If they were to go downtown where we live now, they'd take the light rail. If I go into the city, I take the light rail.
My kids didn’t even ride in the front seat until they were 14 and in high school! They were both rather small and it was just habit to ride in the back, so there they stayed. They weren’t familiar with driving, with looking around at traffic, paying attention. They needed the extra time.
When I look back at my own college experience (in an era where parents were generally hands off) I wish I would have had some guidance. But back then the process was so easy compared to now that it was hard to make a life-altering mistake. I had above average stats and was accepted into some UC’s that today would be impossible to get in. I applied for a few scholarships and got them so the cost was pretty minimal. I didn’t know what I wanted to do so I ended up switching majors twice. Today that flip flopping would be catastrophic with regards to financial aid and graduating in time. I could have used advice on which colleges would be the best fit because as it was I just chose a school that my friends also chose. Today you add in the astronomical costs and the difficulties of getting any financial aid and it’s no wonder why parents are much more involved.
Teens are less interested in getting their licenses and that is well documented. In the past schools offered driver’s training but in most states that is no more. If you want to get your license on your 16th birthday in many states you must have your permit for at least a year. That means you have to take a 30 hour pricey course unless you wait until 15 1/2 for a permit. Besides the higher costs, social media has changed the “need” to drive. In the past if you didn’t drive you’d be out of luck socially unless a friend drove you. Today with IG and even chat rooms teens can stay connected without ever leaving home. Then there’s online gaming which is another way for teens to “hang out”.
Back to my original question, I do think we are heavily invested in our kids future but we need to be careful that we are not living vicariously through them. I see much of the same issue with some parents in youth sports where the parent is way too invested in little Johnny’s win/loss record or the unhealthy pushing of little Suzy to get 1st place in the dance/cheerleading competition. As parents, there is a fine line between being supportive and taking over the process. It’s not an easy balance to maintain.
@lastone03 – procrastination is a huge problem at college. Often, in high school, smart kids can get away with procrastination. They like the adrenaline rush of the last-minute papers and flurry of work to finish their projects, and they end up getting A’s so they internalize the idea that they can get away with that.
But in a rigorous college environment… they fall too far behind to catch up. They can’t possibly catch up with college-assigned reading if they are two weeks’ behind, much less a whole semester — and if they have papers to turn in, they run out of time to produce the college-quality work that their profs expect. So they end up with poor grades, or incompletes, or having to withdraw from classes, etc.
So sometimes the best thing for those kids who need the “boot in the rear” in high school is to let them miss the deadlines and experience the consequence… and if the consequence is that they end up attending a less selective college because they missed the deadline for the top school, maybe that’s not a bad thing long term — because maybe those kids need to be in an environment with enough flexibility to give them room to recover if they fall behind on work.
As far as driving goes, DD is required to take drivers ed in order to graduate high school, and she will probably get her license as soon as she is eligible. We live in the suburbs of a major city. If her interview is close to home or in a nearby suburb, she can drive herself. However, I expect there could be a good chance she will have interviews in the city.
That’s a whole new level of driving and finding parking.
I don’t drive in the city if I can avoid it, and until she gets more experience under her belt, I’d just as soon she didn’t either. Thus I am not going to judge any parent who drives their kid to an interview. Having said that, there is no way I would ever want to sit in on the interview (or even wait in the same building).
I think the financial part of it is overwhelming for kids. It was overwhelming for me. If money isn’t an issue and a kid can afford to go to any school, then all he has to worry about is getting in and maybe he can do it all himself… My kids had no idea how much I made, how much I put into a 401k, if I would qualify for the AOTC and what that meant. $1000, $2500? Tax credit? Loans? Subsidized, unsubsidized? Interest rates? They didn’t know about merit aid or need based aid. Maybe other kids didn’t have to worry about the costs, if they’d need medical insurance, if they could afford $1000 per year for books, but my kids did have to worry about the cost.
And they can’t do it alone. The require our financial information and that information is always changing.
At one point my daughter looked at me and said “Can you just do the money part?” Yes, I could and I did. She was 16, and making a decision of how to spend over $200k. She didn’t have $200k. She needed help figuring out how to get $200k.
My twins have driven since the age in our state, behind the wheel required. Car insurance is expensive, we are the top or #2 density population. When I learned to drive the biggest concern was the circle, one is still within 7 miles! Both sons have friends that never or rarely drive. Now 2plus years later, I bet neither has parkway/turnpike experience and they are not getting it in our busy summer tourist season!
But it’s possible to “do the money part” and take a largely hands-off approach to everything else. The money part means establishing some clear guidelines – for me, it was insisting that they apply to the state U. system, even if they were hoping for private colleges. It could also involve a parental veto of certain college choices – if parents know they won’t qualify for need-based aid and have an upper limit budget for college, for example, that is something to tell the student at the outset.
@calmom my oldest learned pretty quickly that he couldn’t procrastinate in college. His ADD was a problem but he managed and graduated in 4 years. The youngest will be fine. He does well under pressure and will learn quickly on his own.
Mine was at the BMV the day she was eligible, but she was on the young side for her grade and didn’t have the experience for long distance highway driving at the time of her interviews.
@lastone03 – that’s great for you and certainly hope that your expectations for your younger child bear out. But my son’s path from high school to college graduation took 7 years. So it doesn’t all just work out smoothly for everyone. Sometimes the kids who need parental prodding in high school aren’t going to magically rise to the occasion on their own.
As I get older, I get less judgmental about how parents handle things like college applications. Some kids need help. Some don’t. Some are immature in high school but grow up fast in college. Some grow up more slowly and take a more circuitous path. Some have the benefit of a great school system, or wealthy parents who can afford tutors and consultants. Others need a parent or mentor to point them in the right direction.
I have seen parents whom I judged to be overly involved in their kid’s sport. However, in one case, they really need athletic scholarship money. The kids are hard working and will get merit money as well as financial aid. Every little bit will help them. It wasn’t our strategy. But, who am I to say it’s wrong given their situation.
@calmom I understand. Some do and some don’t. My youngest is very focused on what he likes and will work very hard. He just needed a boot because the whole college app process was so tedious. He did the work, I was the administrator and pushed on the deadline dates.
Well, I do think there’s a big difference between a kid succeeding independently with rigorous academics and a deeply involved in extracurriculars enthusiastic about college needing some help keeping things on track for college application season. And the kid barely getting through high school that is indifferent to higher education being pushed down that path. And again, if either of these kids was using an outside consultant, there seems to be no hate on the parents who’ve paid 5-10K+ for someone to do the secretarial work for them.
I just assume parents generally will know their own kids best. Sure, some are over invested and some kids will flop. None of my business. 45% of kids that start college do not finish. That’s for a variety of reasons I’m sure.
That’s fine. If I had everything to do all over again, I might have pushed on the in-state safety (public) deadline, but let my son to his own devices on the deadlines for out-of-state privates. I was happy to take on the role of secretary or admin assistant in terms of entering info on a shared calendar … but probably should have held off on parental reminding or urging. I think he probably still would have gotten the apps in, but there really was no good reason for a parental hand in that.
This has been an interesting thread to read since I’m on the other side most of the time. I get to hear what kid’s say about their parent involvement in school. 
Overall…
Kids love when their parents care - when they’re alongside and can provide thoughtful discussion (vs lecture) - when they’re open to listening to what the student wants - when they’re nice about sharing financial constraints. They also don’t mind much when they get reminded about dates, etc, as long as it’s not nagging or wanting an essay done at the same time they have oodles of other things they need to do. They like when parents visit places with them - as long as they aren’t “that parent” embarrassing them. (A parent insisting on being in an interview would definitely fall in this category!)
They don’t like it AT ALL when they feel they’re just cogs in the system - when their thoughts don’t count, when mom and/or dad are making all the decisions about where to look, where to visit, where to apply, and/or where they can go (this last one happens way too often). They don’t like lectures (about what should/shouldn’t be important) or nagging.
Kids rarely do well with college apps when there is no parental involvement. (I suppose this could be different if there is significant individual counseling/assistance from someone else.) Kids can’t know what they don’t know. They tend to know nothing about deadlines, where to look (aside from the school that sends them fancy brochures or where their peers have gone), financial constraints, financial possibilities based upon different situations, and so much else. Often in our area this is due to parents also not knowing the information, but sometimes it’s merely due to parents not caring or thinking the kid should be able to do it all themselves.
Needless to say, we tried hard to be in the group kids like. I used my “inside information” to align accordingly. Plus, for us, my older two homeschooled high school so I HAD to become the Guidance Counselor. No regrets. I learned a ton. I ended up doing similarly for my youngest in public school. I feel I did a better job than he could have gotten as one in a few hundred in school. All three of mine ended up pleased and with good financial options they chose from. This is actually a good part of the reason I’m thinking of helping this fall in school (and have been encouraged to do so from our guidance office). We have oodles of kids in our school who are first gen. They need extra help and someone to come alongside them (and their parents).
It’s been a different experience with each of my kids.
DD12-very self motivated, had her own spreadsheet and plans, I just provided guidance. In hindsight, we should have pushed more guidance. Her major really limited her options and she changed it first semester. I think she was overall happy with her college but has a little regret about narrowing her search so much.
DD18-no interest in the search AT ALL. Set on nearby state school. Dragged her to a few visits then wondered why I put more into it than she did. State school is a good option and where her sister attended. November of senior year she finally showed some interest and is now going 1000 miles away. She filled out 3 apps -one went to all 3 state schools and 2 OOS.
DS19- clear career goal, motivated, has researched, made spreadsheets, can rattle off the acceptance stats, class options, app dates, and sports programs for several places. At this point, I’m just throwing out tidbits I see here and making the travel plans. He has set up the tours based on dates I tell him.
They are still kids and need guidance despite how together they seem to be. He is finally on board to see CWRU after nixing it several times. I’d suggested it because it seems to be a good fit and he said “ it just didn’t sound right”. I agree with those who have said it’s a lot of money to just turn the process over to kids without some supervision. I expect them to take the lead but I’m going to know deadlines for scholarships, etc since that affects us both.