I think there is an easy answer. If you find yourself saying “We got into X” or “we need to work on applications” then you are too invested. Also if you care more about the outcome than your child does than you probably too invested.
@gallentjill I do all of them at a Starbucks. You need to do them in public. Ours is in the Center (Downtown) so there are lots of places for mom/dad to hang out…including the Pete’s two doors down. (We are a very heavily caffeinated town.)
A few more reasons in support of parental involvement: the path from high school to career is much more complicated now. The relative importance of college reputation, the major, the academic record during college and extra-academic activities in impacting a young person’s life beyond college is now so much more variable than a generation ago. While some employers in some industries rely heavily on school reputation, college major and GPA in hiring college grads, many other employers and other industries rely on other forms of evidence of capability to determine new hires. So the high school to career path has become much more complex now - far more complex than most guidance counselors in high schools can manage.
Moreover, more and more colleges employ sophisticated marketing tactics to attract and select students. See: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/04/how-colleges-find-their-students/522516/ and https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/willarddix/2017/12/27/big-datas-influence-on-college-admission-is-growing/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/ so our youth need additional guidance these days.
Our D got more from help from us than either of us got from our parents, with much better results. That said, she drove the list of schools she was applying to (with a nod from us in terms of the schools and why she chose to apply) and her applications (help minimal essay editing, at her behest). I did the FAFSA and the financial bit of the Common App because it’s OUR money and they are frankly nightmares to do. We are a delegate for her college financial life but have no visibility to her grades other than what she shares. She’s finished her second year at the top UC where she is challenged and feels at home. We offer advice (or mostly confirmation), but there are no dictates as to what she should be studying and classes she should be taking. We know what her standards are for herself and how hard she is willing to work, so it’s more “life” coaching at this point (apartments, etc.).
@Undercrackers Bingo. We own the financials and you can’t expect an 18 year old to understand their parents’ financials.
I use big “we” at work often when all I want to say is, “Where are YOU on this?” but instead I always end up saying “Where are we on this?”
Well, some kids can drive the process, evaluate the process, and others can’t.
I had one daughter interested in the service academies and I had no idea how to help her and she had no idea how to do it either. I could have helped more if she’d asked. It was a mistake leaving it to her.
Other daughter was 3 semesters into college and not doing well in her major, switched, and it was still a problem. I looked at her credits and made a suggestion. Sometimes they really do need some help, even if they are adults. Who knows them better than their parents?
I did all the financial aid and taxes. It is way beyond them. Next year I will help my daughter do her first ‘real’ taxes. I will also make suggestions on how to set up her 401k and insurance policies at her new job. Could she do it herself? Sure, but why not help? I wish someone had helped me.
@gallentjill - My D17 did a couple of interviews with AOs who came to our city. One was at a Starbucks where she could be dropped off. The other was in a hotel lobby on the other side of the city, so there was no way I was just going to leave her there. I stayed out of sight during the interview but then at the end the AO asked to meet me anyway. I don’t think she lost any points.
@elena13 - staying in the hotel lobby is not an issue. It’s a problem when parents want to actually sit in on the meeting. My daughter did one of her interviews at a hotel a distance from our home too. She was a new driver at the time and didnt feel comfortable going alone. The AO actually wanted to talk to us as well but only for the last 5 minutes of the interview and came to get us when he was done with our daughter. The father of the child after us had to be told to remain in the lobby and still pushed to participate in the entire interview. As an alumni interview, I have no problem answering parent questions and concerns, but that is seperate from the meeting with the student.
I was probably overly involved in some ways. Once the kids had the list and the schedule of important dates created, I did keep an eye to make sure there weren’t problems. Interestingly, the only problems that ever occurred weren’t the fault of any of my three kids. I did educate myself ahead of time as to what costs would be and how the process worked - particularly with respect to my son’s auditions - his junior and senior schedule was insane with music lessons, performances, and his job. He had an amazing college counselor in school, so I never had to worry other than scheduling various auditions and opportunities to sit in with ensembles - he doesn’t drive and my husband and I have complicated work schedules, so I never felt remotely bad about being the one to take charge of that. My son could not have known when was better or impossible for me to take off from work.
I have a couple of friends who left their kids completely alone in the process and had absolutely catastrophic problems occur because, IMO, they weren’t providing oversight on the financial issues.
Yes, even now I feel like I hover too much sometimes, but it’s because the consequences of NOT overseeing everything would be bad. My daughter is scheduled to study abroad in Italy this fall. She goes for her visa appointment at the embassy in Philadelphia in early July. Looking at the embassy’s website, I had several questions. It turns out D does NOT have everything she needs - her school needs to provide a couple of more documents. Well, they seem clueless! I told D she should keep pushing until she got answers. She’s finally getting some help, but really?? If she had gone to the appointment with incomplete paperwork, it would have been disastrous. It reminds me that I need to discuss this with her, so she’ll be more alert in the future. I won’t always be at her shoulder to provide guidance.
“Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child.”
re: snowplowing
Is it considered too involved when kids have hired college counselors, hs tutors, essay coaches, sat prep courses/tutors, parent brag sheets for LORs, extensive college tours, attend the “right” high school, or have competent guidance counselors to help craft lists, give advice, and even call AOs on a student’s behalf? The list could go on and on.
Keep in mind that many(most) high school students have access to NONE of those resources and their parents are all they have. Before considering other parents too involved or claiming that your child did it all themselves, stop to think about that.
As someone mentioned earlier, it all depends on your kid. My daughter had it all under control. My boys needed a boot in the rear at times.
The problem with the “boot in the rear” is that some kids who can’t seem to get it together to apply to college may not have the maturity or discipline to manage college when they are living away from home either.
@calmom mine are procrastinators, but eventually get it done. They just create needless stress by waiting until the last minute.
Also depends on the circumstances. In our case, my kids knew their chosen schools needed to offer at least some merit aid and I am not sure they were really capable of reading between the lines on the often confusing college financial aid websites. Did the school mean it when they said they offered merit aid to kids with their stats or did it mean they offered it to only the most shining stars? Or did they offer none and only need-based aid?
If money was not limited, that may have been different. But I also think some parental involvement is important to counter the “popular” schools the kids all talk about, which may not actually be the best fit for your kid. Not that easy for kids that are not super stars to come up with a balanced list of “match” schools that may offer some money.
Where is the line? Certainly, the kids should be filling out their own applications, requesting LORs, meeting the GC deadlines, setting up their own interviews, etc. B
Do kids not drive anymore??? Everyone mentions dropping off for interviews. I’ve noticed this non-driving trend with both of my kids’ friends. My daughter ran to the DMV the first day she could. Is it fear, the requirements, the expense? It is not true in every case, but our friends who don’t let their kids drive, tend to be the ones who are overly involved.
As far as our involvement, we took her on tours. She decided her #1, which was the cheapest OOS and was attainable with her grades and SAT. Her eighth grade English teacher read over her essay and I sat with her when she filled out the application and helped her with listing her volunteer hours. We refuse to go to orientation, maybe we will come to a full stop and let her gather her things before we peel out of the parking lot to have fun on our own vacation. :))
I will say this whole trend of go with your kid to orientation, encourage your kid to sign the paper so we can discuss their grades with you… the colleges aren’t helping with parental “involvement”.
“Do kids not drive anymore???”
A few reasons why some don’t drive a) parents don’t push it, b) cost of car insurance is outrageous. With my 16yo, it’s $2,500 more a year!, c) Uber/Lyft car service readily available. d) the colleges they are looking at don’t require a car.
On driving, I have a 17 year old without a license yet. For us
1-we live in an urban core and public transit is available within walking distance of home almost anywhere kid wants to go.
2- So expensive
3 - kid is not that interested. His friends aren’t that interested.
4 - the licensing process is a bunch more involved in my state than when I got my license. He is slowly racking up 50+ hours of driving time.
5 - my kid is definitely not taking a car to college. Not recommended at any campus we’ve visited. Even if he were to commute to a local college, parking would be $$$ and a transit pass as a college student is cheap.
I signed him up for driver’s ed shortly after he turned 15, but he’s not into it. As long as he’s licensed before he goes to college, I’m fine with it. I learned to drive more suburban/rural than my kid is. I feel like that is so much easier. I’m in heavy traffic, on one way streets, and parallel parking every day of the week. I absolutely did not have the skills as a newly licensed driver that he really needs to be a driver in our area.