<p>First, should it matter wether I'm jewish. Maybe I'm arab. Maybe I'm American. Maybe I'm Israeli. Or Maybe I'm none of those. If I give you a fact that I can back up with history that is taught in Universities around the world, is it colored by my ethnicity? That's not anti-semitic. That's racism.</p>
<p>you're right stardragon, palestinians aren't all arabs. A few come from the byzantines but most are arabs. You can't become an arab like you can't become white or black. (Did you know that there are Arab-Jews. They are called "mizrachiyim").They aren't even all muslim today. Jericho and Beth-Lehem to have a very large christian population. </p>
<p>I'm not defending many of Israel's policies because they have made some horrofic mistakes but the fact that we are disscussing this instead of Rowanda, Chechniya, Sudan, Iran, North Korea, Egypt, the Phillipnes, Vietnam, Syria, Colombia, Moldovia, Libya, Cuba, the Congo, etc... means that for some reason Israel ("the Jews") has been center stage in front of so many worse nations with much worse human rights violations. </p>
<p>By the Way, the rabin murder is remembered as one of the most horrible moments in Israel's history but just like not every white person is resonsible for JFK being killed, not every zionist is responsible for Rabin. </p>
<p>Second Noam Chomsky is an anti-semite who happens to be Jewish. He singles out non-Israeli Jews who are pro-Israel as Uncle Toms and mureders even when all they have done is allowed pluralism on a campus like Lawrence Summers. </p>
<p>He wrote "Divestment is unprincipled and it would be loved by Alan Dershowitz, Lawrence Summers and Marty Peretz who are delighted to have more atrocities and violence against Palestinians. These men are extremists who want to maximize US-Israeli atrocities and crimes"</p>
<p>You can't become an arab like you can't become white or black</p>
<p>Why do all you think so? I say, mix for example, with Afro-Americans for three generations, and then say that you're not 'black' (really I don't like this dirty word). It's easy, if the quantity of Arabs was much more that the population of Palestine.</p>
<p>I agree that no every Zionist is guilty in killing Rabin. But just keep in mind what they can do in order to save the war between Israel and Arabs.</p>
<p>I also don't know why we're so concerned with Israel and Jews. Let's discuss other conflicts and countries, where the military force is the law, where violations of rights are doubtless.</p>
<p>how about this- go ask a palestinian if they consider themself to be arab. odds are theyll say no.</p>
<p>and by the way, how in God's name do i only "talk jewish" and post "flaming personal attacks???" you bring up random non-facts to back up an argument, claim everyone arguing with you is a zionist, "fatherland" protecting Jew, and somehow I'M the one whos making personal attacks and "talking jewish???" I'M not the one who was claiming that the jews run the media, etc, and aside from the fact that there is no "Jewish" language, as has been pointed out, I'm not even jewish, nor do i consider myself to be a great supporter of israel! your anti-semitic and history distorting comments, however, each merit a response, so i have given one. now maybe you can stop questioning motives and start looking at the actual arguments.</p>
<p>Stop speculating "jewish language", I finely know that Jewish language is Hebrew.
I just want to mention you recent events.</p>
<p>Why did Sharon become a head of Israel? Before the very elections, he p.issed on the Muslim holy place, while Palestinians were having mess there. Isn't this radical violation of any human ethics? Of course, jews elected him, as he's their hero.</p>
<p>And do you defend the construction of "defending" wall between Palestinian territories and Israel? It seems to me like all laws of humanity and confensions are nothing for israel. I hate such militarism.</p>
<p>By the way, I very like Bush speech in congress today. I'm glad to see what he wants to do.</p>
<p>First Sharon's party got 40 out of 120 seats. That means there are 80 seats being occupied by people who dont show his point of view democraticly elected by the people of Israel who happen to be Jews, Muslims, Christians etc..
Stop blaming every Israeli or the entire state for a few policies you happen not to agree with. I dont think the Israeli government would mind if you compared its human rights record to any other in the world like a fair judicail system, gay rights, women's rights, healthcare, education and so on.</p>
<p>Now you have to consider the rights of a country. If Palestine is its own country then it is the right of neighboring countries not to admitt entrance to them. The same was not every Candain can get into America. No one stops Israeli Arabs or even Israeli-Palestinains for getting in and if a country wants to erect a fence, a moat, or a force feild around it's territory it can because its thier right.</p>
<p>And Last The Dome of the Rock is not just a mulim holy place, it belongs to all three of the mono-religions so why can't he go up there. I guarantee he didnt take a pis up there. Sharon is also a great general whose strategies are taught in every military school in the world. He gave his life to his country so show some respect.</p>
<p>OMG...L.E.K. can we get a historical ruling here? Did Sharon ever pis in a Muslim holy place? Star the things you say to try and prove your points are so ridiculous. </p>
<p>And about the wall...i personally support the wall because i feel its about time that Israel took measures to protect its border towns and not just respond but PREVENT terrorist attacks...</p>
<p>However, so we don't get into another anti-semite/zionist/w/e you like to say debate...lets address this issue from a national sovereignty point of view as L.E.K. said...you hate the wall...you think its militarism. That is your opinion...other people consider it necessary. But no matter what we think, it is Israel's territory and it has the right to do whatever it wants. "Laws of humanity"? What the hell are you talking about? Yes, if you're a wanted terrorist trying to get through, you're going to get arrested.</p>
<p>I want to say everyone, who is American. Do you remember the reservations for Indians? Everybody was against it, and I'm too. America didn't build any walls, America didn't kill any Indians(I say about XX cent.), and they were in American territory. But it was a violation of freedom. So how can you say that Israel can do everything on "its territory"? Thay're just terrorists with tanks and uniforms.</p>
<p>Or now the terrorists are the armed people America doesn't support, and "free fighter" are the armed people USA supports? Is it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
In one of the saddest episodes of our brief history, men, women, and children were taken from their land, herded into makeshift forts with minimal facilities and food, then forced to march a thousand miles(Some made part of the trip by boat in equally horrible conditions). Under the generally indifferent army commanders, human losses for the first groups of Cherokee removed were extremely high. John Ross made an urgent appeal to Scott, requesting that the general let his people lead the tribe west. General Scott agreed. Ross organized the Cherokee into smaller groups and let them move separately through the wilderness so they could forage for food. Although the parties under Ross left in early fall and arrived in Oklahoma during the brutal winter of 1838-39, he significantly reduced the loss of life among his people. About 4000 Cherokee died as a result of the removal. The route they traversed and the journey itself became known as "The Trail of Tears" or, as a direct translation from Cherokee, "The Trail Where They Cried"
<p>The point I'm not trying to make it is not that I want Stardragon to stop critizing Israel because I happen to disagree with a lot of it's policies (my particular disagreement has to do it more with its dmestic poilicies but still. My point is that to through out accusations like "all Israeli soilders are terrorists" is a dangerous generalazation. It's the type of comment that combined with all comments and thoughts similar to it lead to very bad outcomes decades later.</p>
<p>About the wall, as my grandfather says "the proof is in the pudding". It happens to be that the wall had decreased attacks in those regions that have it by 95% and places that don't have the wall have increased by 20% (according to Reuters). Morally I would like to think that I disapprove of it but I'm also a realistic person. The hard question that needs to be answered is wether the lives it is saving is worth inconviencing a population that doesnt seem too disturbed by its sons and daughters blowing up and taking innocent children with them (30% of all Israeli fatalities have been under 18).</p>
<p>The fact that Israel had to suspend building the wall because its own supreme court has ruled it illegal should say something about the type of country it is despreatly trying to be. I dare anyone to find another country where its judicial system has over ruled a strajetic military desecion. You won't cause its never happened before. And then people have the nerve to call 18 year old kids, who forget about thier own life plan for three years, who put thier life on the line for nothing in return, who serve thier country bravely terrorists. </p>
<p>Where are you from star because I personally think it would be great to live in a place where everything is wonderfully black and white.</p>
<p>Hey Americans, Please, pay attention to my post now.</p>
<p>Today, I watched the Pozner's program about Jews. Now I understand why some people are anti-semitists and want to forbid every jewish organiztion in Russia.</p>
<p>Recently, the Kogan's book was recommended for compulsory studying in all jewish religious organizations. Some excerpts (sorry, not word-by-word):</p>
<p>Jews are the only humans on earth, and though **all other nations are humanlike creatures, they are not sufficiently developed to considered equal to Jews <..> Ane the chrisitians are the most base sychophants, who don't deserve to inhabit the area which jewish god gave us [Jews].. and must be destroyed..</p>
<p>There are also some other extremely radical statements, proving that we are "humanlike creatures". So, like you bigjake, I don't want to condone the hatred.. I will answer respectively.. That's much more horrible than hitler-german ideology.</p>
<p>Don't think that I'm base racist, I'm half-asian and I know what it is to live in Russia with non-russian face. That's why I'm radically against any form of xenophobia and racism, so that I'm against such jewish propaganda of their perfection and domination.</p>
<p>When we discuss any jewish problem, they xall us anti-semitists, and we start condoning all their crimes. Why do we so venerate the 6 million deaths of jews, but forget about 50 million deaths of Chinese (though I'm not for China in any aspect)? Isn't that jewish propaganda of perfection of their race.</p>
<p>I don't want to "coinhabit" the earth with the persons who think that I and 6.3 billion people are just "humanlike creatures"!!!</p>
<p>You need to believe, bigjake, coz it's the truth..</p>
<p>I really am not sure about other countries, but in Russia it's true.. After publicizing such citations, Jews in Russia began to refuse it just to seem like they are innocent again.. But earlier, it was really the book for all religious organizations.. it's also a personal philosophy of almost every Jew.</p>
<p>stardragon, i have heard of similar writings, and every one i have heard of was a fake propagated by groups like the nazis in the 1930's, the czars and communist leaders in russia, the mullahs in saudi arabia and iran, and other anti-semetic groups, specifically to fuel anti semitism. for example, there are similar writings claiming that jews need the blood of a newborn christian (or muslim as the case may be) to make matzah. those claims are untrue and i think we can safely assume that the stuff youre citing is untrue as well.</p>
<p>Really? So what about Kogan's book, which was citated on television?
And all jews confessed that they really wanted to use it! But they said "this book was not to translated in Russian". So why not?</p>