<p>
[quote]
Einstein believed there was a God.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>False! Einstein used the word 'God' metaphorically, referring to the mysteries of the universe. Ditto for similar scientists of his time.</p>
<p>"Man needs something to believe in and to have hope in when all else goes wrong. Man needs to feel that in the end the good are rewarded and the bad are punished."</p>
<p>@ People who posted comments similar to this in response to my post on page 6... (I was studying for SAT II's and watching Desperate Housewives so sorry I'm late to the party)</p>
<p>This is what I was leading people to say in response to my post. Basically, the very forefront of the problem of religion is that it is detrimental, note, DETRIMENTAL, to society. It is a blemish on the human race. Yes, you may state that some people "need" god and the truth is, they do. However, what I am pushing for, along with many other antitheists is a human realization for that need to NO LONGER EXIST. Humanity needs to move on from doing things in order to receive a reward and not receieve a punishment. The human mind needs to universally realize that society can do better without the poison of religion. Religion is absolutely illogical and selfish in its own right. Oh sure, people go on "mission trips" to New Orleans and crap but do you realize that all of the thousands of dollars of money spent going on those mission trips (transportation, housing, food, etc.) could have gone towards funds for PROFESSIONALS to help those people and truly make a difference (IE carpenters). </p>
<p>I went on a mission trip to New Orleans last spring and it was clear that we were not needed there. The jobs we did were menial and had no real impact on the community. I talked to the lady about why we were doing such jobs and she almost cried about how people around the country arn't getting it. That people need to donate MONEY to foundations so that professionals can help fix the situation, not a bunch of inexperienced Christians who are unqualified for the job. Mission trips are completely pointless. If you want to make a differece, stay in your community and help. If everyone stayed in their individual communities and helped make a difference, while orgainzing funds and resources to truly make an impact instead of gaining that feelings of doing good in the world, the world would be a better place and much better off. </p>
<p>Religion is absolutely pointless and unnecessary. Mankind needs to let go of such a silly object and become a planet of unified peoples who do good for the betterment of each other. Call that an impossible goal but you have to admit that it is easily attainable though the termination of religion, church, and especially, god.</p>
<p>I'm an Atheist. My mom is Jewish and my dad is Christan.</p>
<p>@diamondbacker:
1. “If there truly is no god, then all religions are equally illogical – how can one be more logical, in this case, than another?”
I’m the one who believes that Christianity is marginally more logical than Hinduism if I had absolutely HAD to pick a faith to follow. It’s what I feel.
2. “I guess what I'm asking is, give me a good reason to believe that Christianity is more bearable than Hinduism, besides the fact that Hinduism seems to be pretty foreign to you and you're very familiar with Christianity.”
Ha ha. So ironic. I come from the most devout Hindu family this side of the country but I went to a strict Christian school. You could think that Hinduism is more bearable than Christianity and that’s cool. But I think that Christianity and Islam are marginally more bearable than Hinduism purely based on the fact that while these stone idols are decked in precious jewelry which can be put to better use like actually help somebody. This is the only thing that irks me about it- temples are absolutely lavish- like have you seen the Golden Temple? – (<a href="http://www.mahugh.com/india/goldentemple.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://www.mahugh.com/india/goldentemple.jpg</a>) Do you know the amount of money and effort put into building that temple and do you know how much money poverty ridden villages in India spend on temples and expensive jewelry for their stone Gods? Do you honestly not think that all that gold from the Golden temple and all that effort could be used to alleviate the poverty ridden Hindu population of India?
This is what irritates me about Hinduism.
@Databox: Shut up.</p>
<p>@Jamesford- you forgot Lemaitre</p>
<p>"This is what I was leading people to say in response to my post. Basically, the very forefront of the problem of religion is that it is detrimental, note, DETRIMENTAL, to society. It is a blemish on the human race. Yes, you may state that some people "need" god and the truth is, they do. However, what I am pushing for, along with many other antitheists is a human realization for that need to NO LONGER EXIST. Humanity needs to move on from doing things in order to receive a reward and not receieve a punishment. The human mind needs to universally realize that society can do better without the poison of religion. Religion is absolutely illogical and selfish in its own right. Oh sure, people go on "mission trips" to New Orleans and crap but do you realize that all of the thousands of dollars of money spent going on those mission trips (transportation, housing, food, etc.) could have gone towards funds for PROFESSIONALS to help those people and truly make a difference (IE carpenters)."</p>
<p>I don't know how you can claim that religion is detrimental to society. Religion has been responsible for the death of millions of people, but when it is not filled with extremism or corrupt leaders, it is a great asset to society. You're trip to NOLA might have not been all that productive, but the trip I went on to Jamaica was anything but pointless. To say that we didn't make a difference there is just plain wrong. Also, who do you think provides so much money to local charities organizations? Around here, it's churches. We have a couple of big non-religiously affiliated homeless and charitable organizations in my city and they would be non-existent if it weren't for the donations from Christian groups (other religions do it as well, but Christians make up the majority here). </p>
<p>Religion that is not extremist is a good thing for society.</p>
<p>^If you believe in religion, why are you posting on this thread? This thread is only for atheists!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Free will. People have the ability to choose between good and evil. The situation a person is in is always the result of decisions by themself or someone else. God doesn't go about always changing the decisions others make because of free will.
[/quote]
There are trillions [exaggeration, yes] of Bible verses that say that man has no free will [and why anyone would believe that is utterly beyond me] and that God has forced everything upon us. No, not only does he know what's going to happen, he's forcing everything on us! Forcing us to sin! Wow, sounds great, huh? I would love to believe that, then maybe my life would have absolutely no purpose whatsoever, since everything's been decided for me! yay! I'm a puppet!</p>
<p>Wow. This is amazing. I will definitely throw in my two cents when I get home.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Newton believed there was a hidden message in the bible, was highly religious, and was deep in mysticism. Einstein believed there was a God. There are many other examples, and even if some of these famous minds feigned their beliefs, there would be no need for them to devote as much time or energy as many of them did.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>In Newton's time, Science had not discovered how the universe began or how the Sun works, or any of that; there was good reason to believe in religion.</p>
<p>Einstein was agnostic: In a letter from 1950, he stated: "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." He wasn't religous in the sense you're talking about. In one of his books, he stated: "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."</p>
<p>
[quote]
Quote:
He is, IMO, what DOES exist, what IS.
um... you mean nature?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yup, basically. It's like that Einstein quote above. There's nature, but I think there's also a reason nature fits together so nicely. I'm not saying that God made everything to fit together, but He created a world that could order itself.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Quote:
It's not like what happened before the Big Bang would disprove God.
It would disprove him as he is described in the Bible/Quran, which is the only god that has been described.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The Big Bang itself would disprove Creationism, sure, but not necessarily the Bible. Not all Christians interpret the Bible literally. It contradicts itself so. many. times. Plenty (dare I say most?) of Christians, even important leaders, take the Bible as a general moral code with some stories stuck in there. Genesis=/=Creationism! In fact, if I'm correct in remembering, Genesis lists the organisms in their actual evolutionary order. You don't have to read Genesis like some dude in a white beard built a donkey out of clay and chucked him in ancient suchandsuch. You can read it like things were created and there was something there, some mechanism, moving it along.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In Newton's time, Science had not discovered how the universe began or how the Sun works, or any of that; there was good reason to believe in religion.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There's not a finite amount of knowledge in the world. Science doesn't know so very much (though the achievements we've made since Newton are awesome. We wouldn't be Internet debating without them!). And if there's an infinite amount of things to discover in the world, then we're not in any more certain of a universe than the one Newton lived in. Of course, fear of the unknown shouldn't be the reason for religion, though of course it is 99% of the time. Awe of the unknown, and of the known (as in nature) is why I, personally, believe in a God, or at least some sort of something, a reason for the order of the universe. Specific, I know :).</p>
<p>And lol Bothwings, thanks.</p>
<p>wow so many atheists. i'm not..i believe in god.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Awe of the unknown, and of the known (as in nature) is why I, personally, believe in a God, or at least some sort of something, a reason for the order of the universe. Specific, I know.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>You mean you believe in intelligent design?... lol, that's even more illogical than religion, imo. Actually, more ignorant than illogical. The thought that a God had to be responsible for the order of the universe is terribly flawed.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
There's nature, but I think there's also a reason nature fits together so nicely. I'm not saying that God made everything to fit together, but He created a world that could order itself.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>woah woah woah WOAH, hang on! "nature fits together so nicely"????????</p>
<ol>
<li>"Order" is something that is defined by humans; it's completely subjective</li>
<li>If anything, the gravitational force is responsible for the "order" in the universe</li>
<li><p>The Universe is NOT an orderly place, even by our definition of order:</p>
<ul>
<li>Most planet orbits in the universe are unstable</li>
<li>Most places in the Universe kill life instantly</li>
<li>Our galaxy is on a collision course w/ another galaxy (Andromeda)</li>
<li>Earthquakes, Volcanoes, Tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, meteors, asteroids, black holes, supernovae</li>
<li>99% of life that has ever lived on Earth is currently extinct</li>
<li>Diseases</li>
<li>CO2, CO, CH4 - breath in enough of any of those and you're dead</li>
</ul>
<p>-- Yep, nature fits together very nicely... If there is a God that made the universe, then wow, he must really hate us lol</p></li>
</ol>
<p>My take on the Bible:</p>
<p>You cannot take it literally. You cannot expect every verse of every book of both the Old and New Testaments to be a) ethically correct/reasonable b) applicable to society today. Why does the Bible contradict itself? Because it was the work of many many people. I'm sure that not everyone who edited it was the perfect saint. And realize the vast difference between 4000 BC and AD 2008. </p>
<p>So what? Use common sense in interpreting the Bible. Use your sense of right and wrong. When the Bible said that Noah lived to 800 years old, did he really? Probably not. However, exaggerating age in Biblical times was just a way of symbolizing great wisdom. When Jesus said, "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off," was he serious in saying that we should all start pulling out hacksaws and amputate (I don't normally quote Jesus because I'm not Christian, but I'm making a point)? Obviously not.</p>
<p>Well, I do think the bible is an extremely interesting and obviously influential piece of man-made literature that does elucidate on many facets of humanity. But since it is man made, you have to approach it with skepticism. Skepticism is the key trait that allows religion to not be a detriment. Unfortunately, hardly anyone has the right about of skepticism. You need to be able to filter the good from the bad - i respect all religious people who can do that. That is unfortunately few.</p>
<p>And to all the people who say that all religion is stupid or detrimental to society, why do you even bother? You make your fellow atheists look ignorant and stupid. And you're not going to, not in a million years, change the beliefs of myself or the many other CCers who adhere to a religion.</p>
<p>@jamesford: Although I am not one of those people, I don't think anyone here is trying to force a religion/ religious views on anyone. We're just arguing our sides. A "friendly" debate if you will.</p>
<p>@stone_cutter - Excellent posts! :)</p>
<p>I'm an atheist. </p>
<p>It's not that I read the whole bible, the whatever other holy books there are - I tend to be ignorant and turn-the-other-way with religious things - It's just that I don't believe someone is above me. Let alone getting on my knees every time I do some immoral. </p>
<p>When I die - I die. Let maggots eat out my brain, let me rest in peace and eternity with my great, great grandparents. Either way, I don't care.</p>